Jerry J. Fortin

Its a war that cannot be won in the conventional sense. It can be won though, just not in the war that people want it to be.

The drug trade never stopped. The Taliban took the US money and sold rights to thugs at the same time. It was quiet but not gone.

I seem to recall that the NDP was tossed by the PC's and they were around for a number of years as well were they not? The Liberals came to power as a rejection of the PC platform did they not? So The reality is that the people wanted the changes that were made by a democratic majority, and they got what they wanted. I don't live in Ontario, and I don't have any idea what your stats look like, but over here in Alberta that welfare thing is not looked upon very well by the citizens or the provincial government. Over here we think working for a living is better than living on the tax payers dime. What I can assure you of is that here in Alberta they are many "greedy business types" who are decidedly anti-labour and actively pursue lobby efforts to avoid the expansion of trade unions and restrict the incomes of labour with low minimum wage laws. Corporate governance is something we are well aware of over here. A recent foray into taxation reforms and royalty changes has backfired in Alberta and cause the migration of petro-investment dollars out of the province. We have been through some tough times in the past and have had to cut programs and services. Some of those were in the process of being restored decades later after our fiscal picture changed, but that has now gone by the wayside and we may again face some cuts. Education and healthcare have already been notified of reduced funding for next year. The provincial administration is compelled to react and manage its affairs in such a manner as to provide the greatest benefit for tax dollar expenditures. All provinces have similiar social programs, and there are left and right wing administrations everywhere. You cannot simply blame the left, nor the right for social programs. These things were desired by the citizens. What I am saying is that there is no partisan group willing to reverse these programs due to the political fallout that would result. You can play your partisan games till the cows come home but that will not change the reality of the political fear and greed found within government.

There are a great many people who have in the past supported the Conservatives who are little miffed at how Harper is doing things. This latest ploy to get Iggy to force an election could well backfire on him. Not all of that legislative effort was Conservative, and much of it really did have the true support of the Commons. That will all be lost and lots of folks will be upset about it. This time the NDP, The Bloc, and the Liberals are all pretty choked about all this. Granted they were about a year ago as well, but Iggy was fresh out of leadership campaign. His feet are now wet, and he is primed and ready to go. I think Harper has bitten off too much this time. His bluff will be called and we are off to the polls in the spring.

You slay me dude! No ya dipstick.....!!! Can you prove that the government actually censored the press?

Hey Army Guy welcome back, have heard from you in a while. Listen dude, the way I see this is from a non-military perspective. You can say that you volunteered and be speaking truthfully, but that was not my point. My point was they were there because the government sent them there under orders. They and you are doing your job. It is the government that determines the mission and the agenda. Yes your mission as a Canadian soldier is a noble cause and I support you and your efforts with much gratitude. But once again that was neither my assertion nor my point. The "war on terror", was a phrase coined by an American President. It was intended to create sympathy and outrage, and it worked. That man was only half as foolish as people think. Now please keep in mind that Canada is not part of the "war on terror", we are only involved in Afghanistan and will be involved in no other operations anywhere else. We have a chosen engagement in a chosen theater of operations. This was our response to 9/11. Now the war on terror continues, but it does so without us being involved in it. We could at least pin 9/11 on Bin Laden, and we knew who was covering him, so off we went. Strangely we never hunted him, but chased the Taliban across their nation. Please keep in mind I have nothing but respect for the troops in their function and efforts. My point is that administrative and political issues cloud the issue in a fog of war. In my view we should have been hunting for and should have by now captured Bin Laden. That is the extent of what I believe we should have done and should have been doing. Conducting offensive operations against Afghanistan nationals is not what I would have our troops be doing. Nobody ever has nor likely will ever win a war in Afghanistan. Even Alexander the Great could take the whole country. America has chosen another Vietnam, and we have been drawn into it along with many others. The events of 9/11 have been used against some of the poorest citizens on this earth, and they have paid a price that Bin Laden has not yet, nor likely ever will pay. Yes that poor nation needed and still does need help, but so do many others. Terrorism is a big word and it is used in general terms far too often. What of the IRA, or the KKK? Are they not terrorists?

Are you serious...can you actually prove this?

You need to look at this from a different point of view. If coal plants were either banned or made financially less attractive, the switch to gas would increase demand. Another way to increase demand is to convert cars to natural gas, you could do that as well.

Not at all. What I said was that soldiers were obeying the commands of their superiors. Not even close to reality BC. What I said I meant, and that was that the WMD's were there at one time because the US sold them to Sadam in the first place. They also knew that what they sold was binary compounds that in fact had a stale date which had expired years before. Therefore the "hunt" for WMD's was a farce that the whole world was witness to and it destroyed the credibilty of the US on such matters. Canadians and our companies are not immune from the profit motive either. Yes we manufacture some weapons systems here, but that only proves the point I made. No Iraq wasn't, and he was right to say and do what he did. At least in the case of Afghanistan the entire world as represented in the UN was in support of the removal of the Taliban because of their resistance to hand over their hero Bin Laden. That act was like leveling Washington to get even for the sniper issue when that happened. Unfortunately yes I did.

I am about 668 meters above sea level and at least 800 miles from any coastline. No volcano nearby, no river, outside of most tornado activity. It does get cold here though so I am hoping for the much feared global warming to kick in.

Two is a start at least!

The war in Afghanistan and the "war on terror" are two different things. Afghan is specific and the "war on terror" is not. The soldiers reason to be there was not their own but instead at the behest of their government in the process of obeying orders issued by authorized command authority. As if attacking Afghanistan was not bad enough, the "hunt for WMD's" in Iraq closed the door on credibility from those advocating such actions in the first place. The reality is that Bin Laden coped to the crime and nearly a decade later the most powerful nation in the world has not found a seven foot tall Saudi in a nation of five foot tall Pakistanis. They either have not looked very damned hard or they are not looking for him at all. Mean while, the USA destroyed one of the poorest nations on earth for standing up and being loyal to one of the men that saved that nation from the Russian occupation. That same man they now are supposed to be hunting for, they used to seek to deliver dollars and guns to in a fight against Communism, now they want to kill him. The war on terror is all about keeping the defense industry in the USA up and running with a nice little profit margin. Surely you have heard the phrase military industrial complex...... The USA knew there was WMD's in Iraq because they still had the receipts, they sold them to Iraq to use in a war against the evil nation of Iran. Lets not go to where this is headed.

You could hardly expect a soldier to say otherwise. The reality of the "war on terror" is something else.

For the most part highly educated folks are more socially adept than those with less education. Granted that is a two edged sword, however in my experience business gravitates toward less social aspects and more economic aspects of life within this society. Society needs a balance between the two and over the last couple of decades we have leaned toward a more pro-business and less socially beneficial slate of initiatives. The pendulum will swing once again and the opposite will be true. I think that is because there is an extreme tendency in this nation toward partisan affiliation. In my experience, from having worked as both a union and a management position, neither side holds all the answers. They represent the reality of politics, and what we need is something more down the middle. The realization of economic importance must be balanced with environmental sustainable initiatives and technological advancements that would accommodate the varied spectrum of employees and human oriented production. We stand at a crossroads of development.

The world has not ended, and Parliament will sit again. Our state of democracy has needed work for decades, maybe this will be a tipping point but I doubt it.

Mostly hogwash. The intellectuals are in favour of equality and mutual respect. The business folks are in favour of profit and all cost. The two are different sides of the same equation and to be brutally honest there is no damned balance at all. Politics defends both sides yet the profit motive touches everything. The little guy gets burned more often than not.

I knew it. I also know that it is only combat operations that will cease, not all of our involvement in Afghanistan.

I sure hate to defend what seems to be excessive spending. The reality is that government travels on short notice more often than not, the idea of forward planning escapes them I guess. Their meal expenses are often room service with all the premiums associated with that little perk. In addition every business person in the nation has already discovered the ways to hide your booze bill on your food claims. So what we are talking about is last minute travel, and expenses associated with off hours meal and entertainment expenses. In truth we could and should be looking at these costs under a microscope, and actually do something about it. This government is no better or worse than any other in its expenses, yet the citizens deserve better treatment than this and better value for their money. Its time to start moving politicians on pre-booked flights, with the air miles going back to the fed. Its time to eliminate the booze, and fancy hotel rooms. If it were up to me I would have Air Canada fly these folks around for free! I would TELL Bombardier to front me a couple of planes, cover the fuel and the air crew expenses as a bonus for all the damned money sunk into that company. There are ways of doing things that are outside of the box and effective. We should be doing them.

I simply can't believe this thread. What a monumental waste of time both here and at the peoples expense in the Commons. Correct me if I am wrong here but product liability already exists, does it not? So what is the big freaking deal? If it is harmful sue, if not shut up.

Iggy may be on the right track. Harper has opened a door for him and even thrown down a gauntlet in challenge. Folks should be careful what they ask for.

I am not anti-Harper by any stretch of the imagination. Harper and the Conservatives have had MANY good ideas, and I applaud and thank both him and his government for doing the correct thing, when they actually do it. I am neither left or right in terms of ideology so I can support initiatives from either side of spectrum. I would like to believe that I am like most Canadians in that we will support the faction that provides the best solutions regardless of partisan affiliation. In the case of northern development I believe that this is exactly what we need to be doing right now. If I had my way I would be setting up Federal Crown Corporations and do an immense amount of capital investment for mining and other industrial development in the great open expanse of the north. I would design education programs to suit the development potential and have skilled labour in place to realize that employment when the time came. I would suggest that this nation now has the ability to undertake this development of the north with the need for foreign investment. This is a radical departure from the development of southern Canada, when we did not have the means. It represents an opportunity that should not be overlooked.

So far this week I have read about the MacKensie Pipeline Project and an iron mine on Baffin Island. I was very pleased to read about these things because I believe that we are about to turn and march down a new path. I think northern development is moving to the front burner, perhaps not in political terms but in realistic terms.

I don't think so Argus. In numbers, your concept appears accurate. Yet you forget the Bloc, and their numbers as well as their current dislike of Harper and his government. Look at what the PC Premier of NFLD did to Harper last election with his Anything But Conservative (ABC) movement. It is not as if Harper is not vulnerable at all, yet he is skillful and it will require some talent and a lot of legwork to dislodge him. That middle slice you refer to is actually the biggest piece of the known pie, but even that is small compared to the largest demographic of all and that is the apathetic voter. An appeal to those folks will provide a win to ANY party in the nation.

Unless of course Harpers actions trigger an election. That is a distinct possibility, and at that point all that legislative effort disappears because it would be a different Parliament that it would be introduced to, or is that incorrect. Such was my understanding, I could be wrong....

I agree the system can be blamed for a great many things, yet I still hold Harper to account for his own actions.