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sorry just got around to it Yankeegal. Grateful yes. All you have to do is travel a bit to understand why. So cheers to you belatedly and you know I would be involved in any circlejerk with you anytime you imperialist running dog exploitative expansionist capitalist swine. I also am grateful for American women- well except Lindsay Lohan's girlfriend. What is with that.

Personally I believe they are at the present time the greatest danger to their own people but I also believe anyone who underestimates the negative impact they can have on the world economy is foolish. Is there a lot of bark in their bite? Who really knows. We know they are absolutely ruthless internally to anyone that questions what they do but we also know their actual military technology is questionable but you and I and no one else will never know their true military potential now will we. Personally I would like to see all diplomatic channels completely exhausted before someone starts yet another war. Does anyone not think a war with Iran would trigger off a dominoe effect of unintended consequences? Hopefully Iraq and Afghanistan at least have shown that. You know it is interesting to see countries like Syria squirm and wiggle trying to figure out what side of the coin to play with Iran. Certainly China which has staked its energy future on Iran and Sudan is their biggest ally and contrary to what people may believe Russia has a direct vested financial interest in Iranian oil being blown up and put out of production. Can't imagine Turkey is to keen on having nuclear missiles next door or the ripple effect if any attack on Iran. I personally would not like to see a straw dog scenario set up to get McCain elected, i.e., coincidentally an attack happening in oh say August or September. Is it that predictable? I personally think the best way to defeat Iran is with the inter-net, videos of Paris Hilton, and big macs not to mention being more subtle and helping resistance within the country. Can't we be a tad more subtle when overthrowing regimes anymore? Remember the good old days when we just got people caught up in sex scandals or started civil wars between tribes and paid off some generals to engage in coups? What is happening to our world.

Your attempt at feigning ignorance as to the Iranian regime's sordid history is hard to take. You seem quite selective on which counties you criticize. Excuse me if I gag at the question and urge you to use the same standard with Iran you use on Israel and the US. Here is some reading for you since you golly gee just do not know. You may want to go talk to an Iranian refugee in Canada particularly a gay one or one of those trouble making Bahaiis. http://www.amnestyusa.org/all-countries/ir...=30&n3=922; “Amnesty International has reported extensively on a number of human rights abuses--including large-scale arrests, incommunicado detention and torture--have taken place in the context of recent unrest among the country's Arab and Kurdish and Azeri ethnic minorities. Demonstrations held to protest violations have been met with indiscriminate use of violence; several of the victims have been children. Religious minority communities--including Bahais and Muslims practicing Sufism, have also been faced increased persecution in recent months. In recent months, the Iranian authorities have been carrying out a widespread crackdown on civil society, targeting academics, women's rights activists, students, journalists and labor organizers. Hundreds of trade union activists--in particular activists from the Union of Workers of the Tehran and Suburbs Bus Company were arrested as part of measures to prevent planned strikes. Lawyers, web loggers and others who have spoken out against human rights violations have themselves been targeted for abuse. Read more below about how you can stop child executions and help human rights activists in Iran.” wait don't stop here is the complete list of things to read to answer your question since you have no idea and I am trying to "help"; http://www.parstimes.com/rights/ and yes even trendy leftists (ahem do you know any) have concerns; http://www.iranfreedomconcert.com/khatami.html not to mention people in Iran; http://hriran.org/. What next. Do you have any questions about Sudan, China, Zimbabwe by any chance? Regards, Amy Winehouse

The same problem Kuzadd and Buffy have with it. Same reasons. Also they think I made up the holocaust and use Israel as a false pretense in that regard. Also I hear they have issues with bagels and lox and Sarah Silevrman. Look these things happen. We are used to people with beards and no mustaches hating us. Although I am pretty sure the Amish could care less as long as we do not scare their horses.

Very melodramatic Pliny but it misses the point I presented in its entirety. The fact that a lot of what we are may be pre-programmed by our genetics and dna and the physiology we are born with including all those chemicals you refer to, does not mean we do not have free will and that is why I said its not a matter of us all being biological or it all being simply made up by what we learn after we are born, but a bit of both and so it is far too complex an equation for you to write off medical approaches because you believe people's free will alone can change who and what they are. Your analogy is silly. Try use some simple common sense. The fact that people take medication for high cholesterol does not mean they do not need to exercise and eat a low cholsterol diet and change their lifestyle. I am defending pharmacology, psychiatry, neurlogy, paediatric medicine for a good reason. They all do not as you infer assume that we are all programmed and simply should be given a pill. You misrepresent what they do. These people are dedicated professionals whi study for many years and dedicate their lives precisely to trying to heal peoplebecause they care and believe in free will and the potential for us all to achieve and be positive. They try use the knowledge they have to help us. The point of learning about genetic predisposition for example, is to help us identify cancer and other diseases earlier on or to prevent two persons from having a child that could be born with an unfortunate disease. Is that wrong? Is it wrong to use our brains to develop knowledge of how our bodies work? Should we instead not engage in any medicine at all and simply treat people with faith values? I think your extreme stereotyping of genetics and what phramcological knowledge assists us in doing for certain people is a gros over simplification of medicine. For some taking medicine is a matter of life and death and no they do not take it because they are weak or under the control of evil pharmacologists and their pharmaceutical companies. For some medical prescriptions mean they can lead a positive life and enjoy more time with their loved ones doing things they once could not have done. Does medicine have problems? Are some people over-medicated or misdiagnosed? Of course. Have pharmaceutical companies sold dangerous prescriptions without disclosing the proper infirmation, yes. All human systems have flaws and defects. However this simplistic notion that all pharamcological products are evil or all medicine tries to do is assume people are zombies to be medicated is a ridiculous generalization. If you want to have a serious discussion on genetic predisposition and free will and where one begins and the other ends or how they inter-relate then try do just that. There are many medical doctors, ethcis specialists, legal scholars, social scientists and philospphers struggling precisely with this. Of course the public fears genetic sciences for the same reason it fears all science and authority figures- because it fears knowledge could be used for the wrong reasons. What I am saying to you is don't take that fear of what humans do wrong and let it shut your mind to the possibility that not all medicine and science is evil and is a sham.. What I can tell you is treating science in a manner that simplifies it as you do is no different then the stereotypes that were once used to falsely label people as wiches or insane. Its based on fear, not rational thought. Open your mind man. For some trying to suggest I have closed mind, perhaps you need to practice what you preach too? Here try these articles on for size and no I do not think it is as simple as popping a pill. If I did I would be trying so hard to debate you; http://www.science-spirit.org/article_deta...?article_id=185 http://www.peh-med.com/content/1/1/9 By the way, I did once think all humans should try a mix of dark chocolate, raisins, prune juice and magic mushrooms to assist with grumpiness but I gave up that theory years ago when I realized some people just will never appreciate the Marx Brothers or why Shemp just could not replace Curly Joe with the Three Stooges or for that matter why the goose stepping Munchkin soldiers were the real enemy. That said, I am working on something far simpler-using animal therapy to help with the dying, chronically ill, sexually abused and professionals with post traumatic stress syndrome from their work. Not all knowledge as to healing is evil. Some of us do try develop non pharmaceutical treatment modules to assist along with the more traditional ones. There is a place for both.

The problem with the no.3 is what happens if there is a stalemate. Technically whether you have 2 or 11 or 7 or 6, what you are describing is what the jury system already does and what the role of a Judge is with a jury system. Decisions are already required to meet the basic elements of justice otherwise they are appealed. Already happens. There are numerous doctrines, statutes, regulations, case decisions innunciating what constitutes justice. I do concede the law is always in need of reform and improvement and all we lawyers are verbose creatures who cause a lot of problems often in our zeal to argue the best interests of our clients. Also we can be rude. There I added in the last two comments as you did say you wanted an intelligent comment! Seriously the jury system is to allow peers to try people. The number of jurists is supposed to assure active discussion that will flush out all the issues during the discussion. The Judge is supposed to guide the jury as to any legal issues so they can focus on making conclusions as to the facts. The problems with false memory, manipulated evidence, using emotion to manipulate jurors, unmotivated jurors, etc., yes these are all real problems. Quite frankly we have problems with Judges too. Anything with a human is going to have problems. We try put checks and balances into the system. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. Sometimes the "truth" only comes out years later after someone suffers needlessly, sometimes the system fails, etc. No it aint perfect. Me personally I would like to see more laypersons involved in the disciplinary and regulatory processes of each province's Law Society.

Thanks. He really gets by goat J as you can tell. The last person that truly pissed me off as much as Finklestein during that interview was Paul Bernardo saying he is no longer a killer and psychopath or Karla Hamolka's crying interview before they released her. The Adam and Eve of Canada. One remains locked up. The other is in the West Indies living a free life and reproducing.

I provide the following response to your above comments; The fact there is no one test for adhd does not mean its not an organic disease or a neurological disease. One of the reasons there is no one test is because many other illnesses and conditions have to be ruled out as their symptoms are the same or similar. Likewise people with adhd also have other illnesses or conditions referred to as co-morbidity, such as obsessive compulsive disorder, anxiety disorder, learning disabilities, certain kinds of epilepsy, Tourette’s Syndrome. So with any neurological or psychiatric disorder, a full range of tests must be done to rule out other illnesses to prevent false diagnosis. As well the fact that some of the testing done on people with adhd looks at the behaviour they manifest, that does not make those tests subjective. In fact you are mistaking psychological testing for being subjective when it may not be. Yes the person tested is asked to describe behaviour but that behaviour can also be tested objectively. Such testing for attention or short term memory problems, or problems with hand to eye coordination or being unable to sit still or having nervous tics, can all be reconfirmed through objective testing. Actual testing used to diagnose adhd is complex, multi-disciplinary and engages in both psychological and physical testing and its continually being developed. As we speak adhd testing techniques are changing as more and more knowledge is researched. For example in recent studies, scientists were able to define certain specific regions in the haplotype area of the brain evidence symptoms when adhd is present. Research is also leading towards providing more objective information to indicate that a variant of the latrorophin 3 gene seems to suggest a predilection towards adhd. The more genetic research that is done the more likely scientists will be able to come up with diagnostic testing that can help but in any diagnosis there is no one magic way to define an illness. This idea if there is no one easy way to find something out it means it does not exist is a very misleading way to understand how science, let alone neurological and psychiatric and certain psychological diagnostic testing works. Yes to someone not trained to make the diagnosis it would seem as if the DSVM Psychiatric Manual used to diagnose certain conditions appears subjective and just appears to be a bunch of subjective labels. At the present time the American/Canadian/British/Australian/New Zealand/South African Psychiatric Associations have a manner to diagnose adhd using 3 basic type descriptions; I-adhd predominantly inattentive, ii-adhd predominantly hyper-active impulsive and iii-adhd combined type. But no psychiatrists and neurologists don’t just slap on the label. In fact it is more likely parents looking for an excuse for ill-behaved children or improperly trained psychologists might make the false diagnosis. A properly trained neurologist, psychiatrist or paediatrician won’t just slap on the label and in fact a paediatrician will rule out all other physical disorders before the neurologist and psychiatrist are then called in. I would strongly suggest a parent always insist that a paediatrician, neurologist and psychiatrist make the diagnosis. There is no mystery to the testing done. A child is interviewed and observed, a full medical history including analysis of the child’s social, emotional, school and behavioural past is taken. A full physical is done to rule out exposure to lead, anemia, thyroid disease, diabetes. Then behavioural rating scales are used to evaluate the symptoms. Several verbal and written tests are done to rule out other similar disorders. Tests for learning disabilities are also done. Hearing and vision are tested. An eeg might be done if the child has had a seizure or seizures. If a child has adhd, they usually are going to have some pretty tell tale symptoms and other co-existing illnesses or problems and yes the worst thing someone can do is misdiagnose it but no psychiatrists and neurologists are not in a hurry to diagnose it contrary to popular belief. Look I doubt I am going to convince you to trust psychiatrists or neurologists. Sounds like your mind is made up this is an imaginary thing created by pharmaceutical companies to justify drugging people. All I can tell you is there is more to it then just saying because we don’t have an easy answer for it, it isn’t real. It is and it can make children very sick and cause them a world of pain and misunderstanding if not properly understood. I enclose the following web-site as to some recent study as to using eye movement to diagnose adhd which looks promising; http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn6886 (eye movement) While it is perfectly true today’s current brain imaging testing has provided inconclusive and meaningless I enclose these two web-sites with some recent research showing that scientists may be headed towards brain imaging testing that may help diagnose adhd in the future; http://www.edweek.org/login.html?source=ht...p;baddebt=false (brain imaging) http://www.ncpa.org/iss/hea/2002/pd121102e.html (brain imaging) I offer you this web-site which is a good one on adhd; http://www.klis.com/chandler/pamphlet/adhd...20is%20ADHD.htm as well as these; http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/adhd/DS00...s-and-diagnosis http://www.med.nyu.edu/psych/assets/adhdscreen18.pdf http://www.braintrain.com/home_users/adhd_...ADHD_Is_it_real http://www.medem.com/MedLB/article_detaill...&sub_cat=21 Hopefully they take the mystery out of adhd and indicate to you the fact that there is no one test for it, doesn't make it any less real.

Let me respond but with utmost respect to you. Please do not misunderstand me. I respect everything you said. I am just debating the issue, not what you may have done personally in your life to deal with what you consider to have been depression. If what-ever you did worked for you, I commend you. Please I do not think I am in a position to comment on your personal life decisions I am justd ebating the issue in general, i.e., is there such a thing as mental illness? One could argue the fact that both you and your sister and others in your familu had depression may in fact suggest a genetic link. Then again for all we also know, none of you ever had a depressive illness but encountered what is called situational depression, i.e., stress from you know crazy stuff but when the situation sorted itself out, so did the understandable and anger and depression that came reacting to that situation. Much of what we think is depressive illness is not. Its situational depression, i.e., we react with sadness, anger, anxiety. Hell how else are you expected to react? If you are faced with violence, an abusive parent, severe poverty, etc., of course you'd be depressed or angry or sad or develop all kinds of shit because of the environment, some of it learned, some of it from poor diet and air pollution, some of it from being stuck in a neighbourhood full of drugs, maybe political turmoil, racism, etc. Don't get me wrong. I agree with you that with environmental and physical and mental illnesses we can do a lot to ovecome the negative effects with positive lifestyle choices, i.e., diet, exercise, sports, working, maybe having strong religious beliefs, you know things like that which make us positive and focused. No treating any illness is not just a matter of popping a pill. The mind, body and soul, they are all inter-connected and all need to be seen as part of one another. I get you there. I also can make the argument that changes to our e nvironment make an illness that would otherwise never be diagnosed and be an issue, suddenly become one. Consider this for example. A person with adhd who lived on a harm a hundred years ago would never know he had it. His constant physical work and being outside in fresh air being able to move around and work off the energy constantly would easily deal with it. It of course becomes a problem in a modern environment when we lock people in small rooms, tell them to sit for 8 hours and have them eat processed foods. Obviously this changes things. Look I do not doubt the fact we stick children in front of computers has destroyed their ability to pay attention and create. Definitely. Abstract reasoning and creativity which a child needs to develop at a certain age gets stunted by over-reliance on computers. We know this because brain imaging can show that if you don't exercise and therefore develop certain parts of the brain during certain windows of opportunity, you may lose that ability to develop such processes for-ever. The tests show what happens for example if you don't nurture a child during its first year of development it loses the ability to develop a certain part of its brain and it then suffers from a form of aquired autism. Its a classic example of how an environmental condition causes physical damage which then causes another permanent illness. High cholosterol we know is caused by our diet. We know there is currently an epidemic of obese children and so we see hardening of the arteries in children at far earlier ages. So yes diet and exercise is crucial. But there is also another kind of genetic illness that causes people to have high cholesterol present even when they are young that has nothing to do with diet and exercise and may require medication just like we know children can get juvenile diabetes and juveline arthritis and no these illnesses are not necessarily brought on by the environment, but are genetic although certainly diet and exercise are crucial in alleviating symptoms. Wiith due respect genuine mental illnesses, mood disorders, adhd, are not moral weaknesses one beats because they are not purely caused by our attitude or are choosing to be that way anymore then we choose to be black or white or yellow or gay or a girl or a boy, its the way we are born. We know some of us are born with a genetic predisposition to be shy or get certain illnesses including heart disease and cancer or sickle cell anemia, Tay Sachs disease, hemophilia, Huntington's Korea. If someone is genuinely ill from a mood disorder, i.e. depression, bi-polar disorder or genuinely has an anxiety disorder, obessive compulsive disorder, schizophrenia, no they can't think their way out of it or beat it by simply telling themselves its their attitude. That with due respect is just not the case. I just ask you to keep an open mind about mental illness. There are a wide range of depressive illnesses and yes science knows enough know to understand the actual chemical imbalances that occur in the brain with seratonin and dopamine levels. We know when women have given birth to children, some of them can get a post birth depression brought on by hormonal changes. We know children exposed to nicotine, crack cocaine, heroin, etc., can be born with brain damage that can cause certain kinds of adhd, autism, epilepsy and other abnormalities. Hell even being exposed to a toxic chemical or the flu or a bacteria or virus may permanently affect the development of the embryo depending on the stage of its development when this chemical or drug exposes itself to it. But we also know some kids have had parents who drink and smoke and they escape any harm and some people live in stressful or polluted situations and don;t get depressed or ill suggesting the mind, body, soul connection is far more complex then we think it is. Some of us is genetically programmed, some evolves from what we learn, and some evolves from we are exposed to. How much is each no one really knows but what I am saying is no, mood disorders, adhd, they are real. For that matter some people live in perfectly fine, calm, wonderful environments and become ill with depression. It could be the "depression" you are talking about is not depressive illness at all. As for your cousin beating adhd with due respect, he may have been falsely diagnosed or never had it. Children can not be blamed or be expected to control adhd symptoms any more then someone with Tourette's Syndrome can be expected to control their verbal outburts or twitches of an epileptic can control certain kinds of seizures or a schizophrenic can control his hallucinations. Yes there is this thing called the placebo effect. We know there is a connection between mind and body. It sometimes explains why cancer goes into remission or why people who are constantly depressed are susceptible to auto-immune disorders. But no it is not as easy as you paint it as. Illnesses and their causes are far more complex then simply stating they can be beaten if you think in a certain way.

I was being tongue in cheek. I appreciate your efforts to debate this. I respect your opinions. The Tom stuff is just to lighten it up. I know you are not Tom's friend. Or are you Tom? I will try get back to you on the other stuff in a more serious manner.

Not so sure whether she wants to get it. She has made it clear in her past remarks that the notion of a Jew being a shared collective entity other then one based on religious beliefs doesn't factor into her equation of us. I think what sets me off with him is is I have heard him snicker and brag in interviews about how he knows what he says hurts Jews and he says things deliberately knowing they will hurt Jews and then has laughed out loud about the hurt and pain he says he causes. I hope when he dies the first vision he must deal with is Anne Frank then Joseph Mengele then his own soul forced to walk to the room where he is stripped and "fumigated" and forced to experience that which he spits at. The closest thought I have to expressing what I feel about him is this story. When I was a kid my father would take me and my brother to a veteran's hospital so we could see the world war one and two veterans. He used to do that to explain why he would always get angry when someone who had not fought in war talked about it. He said it was the silence of the vets that would teach us about war. He said there was a reason for that silence and until someone learns to respect that silence, they will never ever understand war. I mean my father was always an angry guy for surviving the war but the only time I really saw him truly angry is if he thought someone was talking about a war they never experienced. Years later if I run into a vet I know to keep my mouth shut and respect the silence. If they speak I listen but I know better then to initiate any conversation and pierce their silence. Likewise with holocaust survivors or people that came from other nightmares, I learned to respect their silence-listen if told, but otherwise shut up and understand the message of the silence....its not the words...but the silence between the words. So I just can't understand how a man like Finklstein deliberately makes noise to drown out the silenceand in so doing defecates on another soul's darkest moments and the suffering those moments have etched into them. I just can't fathom it. There are things that happened to members of my family and others I would never speak of. No words can explain it. Only silence can and yet this wretch screams and makes noise to prevent the dignity of the silence. Bah. I believe there is a time and place for us all and this time and place is called the consequences of our free choice. Finklestein will come upon it sooner then he thinks.

Again no prunes in your diet? I haven't put you in any camp and I made it clear what I was saying was my take on your position about Israel in general not anything specific. If I have any specific worrds or comments you have stated I wish to challenge I will quote them and make specific reference to them. By the way when it comes to Israel I have never read anything from you that in my opinion would indicate you are capable of looking at both sides of the dispute. With due respect for me, you and Buffy are one trick ponies when it comes to your positions on Israel and for me they are what you would call boring and predictable. Of course you find me to be a Zionist running dog so why the knickers all twisted? Not good for your colon. Figs and dates from Israel are awesome. They should do the trick.

In regards to your first comment, I am not so sure China really cares about whether something is illegal according to international law. It has demonstrated repeatedly it has no problems violating international law if it suits is foreign policy interests. For that matter the US and many other nations have as well. I sometimes think countries that claim this arguement are only using it as an excuse to justify not doing anything-such criticism would not apply just to China but many nations. Me I think all nations are opportunistic whores at the best of times. In regards to Mugabe doing better than CP China in democracy, that is a scathing indictment about CP CHina. Ouch. You stated Mugabe is a representative of a certain part of Zimbabwe not only himself. True but that does not in any way make what he does legitimate. You bet Mugabe knows how to maintain supporters, its called bribery and coercion. Take your pick. I concede your point that sanctions have never worked well with such situations precisely because of the way sucha person can control people. Excellent point. Now in regards to your last point and I also concede you did admit China supports Mugabe for political reasons, you suggest the same Western nations that criticize such madmen have a moral responsibility to finance these countries so they can become democratic. Do you not think they have tried? Look I concede that many times Western nations have propped up corupt dictators they know are mad men for purely selfish business reasons and that is part of the problem. But don't you also think the Western world has tried to finance projects in these countries and some of that failure is not their fault? We all know what the brain drain is. We suck the intelligentsia out of third world countries. They come to the West to study then stay behind and do not return. Whose fault is that? You are right in the sense that anyone who wants to lecture another nation about being corupt and evil has to be willing to do more then be self-righteous I get your point, but I also think people in any nation can be their own worst enemy as well. My criticism for how countries exploit each other and engage in double standards as to human rights, etc., applies to all nations but I also for the same reasons chastize the corupt leaders of these nations as well. They are vile and they depend on their fellow citizens joining with them in being vile to keep the masses controlled. You tell me. Why invest in Zimbabwe? Can you guarantee under democracy another mad man won't remerge again and do the same thing? Will that all be the fault of the British or US or China? You have any idea how to keep countries such as yours from propping up evil regimes such as the one in Sudan? You really think China will not sleep with anyone willing to give it oil? You think the US or Britain are the only whores on the block? Robert Mugabe is an abomination. He is a psychopathic mad man who needs to be taken out. Oops that is not internationally sanctioned.

Nonsense. Show one word where he stated "Israel should be left alone" or referred what is going on in Zimbabwe to hippocritical double standards in regards to the treatment of Israel. You are fabricating things he did not say. You then project your subjective impression of his comments about Zimbabwe to try avoid debating the issue. If you find this lunatic in Zimbabwe unecessary to discuss take your selective opinions as to who you want to trash instead to another thread. Clearly you show a preoccupation with Israel. Go start an Israel is poo thread. That will be original. For you to suggest Argus or any of us can't question the mad man Mugabe because we are merely pro Israel stooges is nonsense. It is also completely illogical. Even if we are pro-Israeli, how does that change what Mugabe has done and how does that change the double standard he is receiving compared to other alleged human rights violators? That was the issue. Your trying to suggest any debate as to this mad man is nonsense because we should only criticize Israel which is what you are saying is with due respect ludicrous and its precisely the kind of selective b.s. some of us notice from people like you. Your righteousness is quite selectiv and you seem to have no problem trotting out Israel supporter conspiracy smeers, not to mention assumptions as to peoples motives. Give it a rest selective human rights preacher. If you think you can trot out some insult about Israel everytime there is a discussion about some insane despot to dettract and avoid discussing the issue, play that tune with someone else. Stop trying to label Argus and fabricate things he did not say to distract from the topic. You want to engage in an Israe is pool thread and ignore the rest of the world and only discuss Israel when you want to slag someone on human rights do so in another thread. Back to this thread, the point is, Mugabe is a mad man and it is interesting to note all the countries that would slag other countries for human rights abuses including but not limited to Israel, but will look the other way with this syphlitic madman. Good Lard. This exercise in defending all human rights abusers by stating to criticize them one becomes a Zionist provocateur is passed the point of puckering my hemmeroids any more.

With due respect the diagnosis of mental illness is not entirely subjective. Your comment that it is-is exactly what the Church of Scientology preaches about psychiatry. The actual process involved in diagnosis is far more complex and againw ith due respect all of us have to do more then simply read an internet web site before we suddenly become authorities on neurology and psychiatry or pharmacology for that matter. The fact that adhd has more then one origin or cause or symptom and therefore can not be easily identified using one uniform test does not prove your thesis at all, just that when diagnosing it no one easy test exists. Today’s high precision imaging capabilities has been able to assist in rendering imaging of the brain which have proven organic physical development delays in the brain structure of adhd patients, specifically in regards to the the post puberty stage where cortical thickening should have taken place in the frontal cortext and temporal lobe areas but does not. There is also ample SPECT scan testing to evidencepeople with ADHD have reduced blood circulation and higher concentrations of dopaime transporters in the area of the brain known as the striatum. There are numerous studies including The U.S. National Institute of Mental Health’s that found one-third of fathers who suffered from ADHD during childhood also went on to have children with adhd and that children with affected parents are three times more likely than other children to develop the disorder, and identical twins are both likely to be affected. On going researcher as to the underlying genetic mechanisms that regulate hyperactivity and the correlation to the neurotransmitter dopamine have also provided sufficient evidence as to the presence of a variation of a domapine D4 receptor gene in a high proportion of people with adhd as well as drug and other addictions and also indicates a corelation between the dopamine D4 receptor gene and the reason why there is abnormally thin cortex development on the right side of the brain. Studies have also shown about 50% of adults and 70% of children with a genetic resistance to thyroid hormone have ADHD. There are now numerous pharmacological studies taking place investigating the dysregulation associated with noradrenergic disorders and dysfunction in the fronto-subcortical pathways suggesting a genetic etiology. There are more than sufficient studies which have proven the physical phenomena transpiring in the frontal lobes strictal connections and the fact that similar symptoms have shown up with people suffering cerebral lesions to the frontal lobe more than suggests a physical illness to the brain. The fact that the exact causes and origins of adhd are not known does not mean we can launch into fantasy and pretend there is no genetic or organic component to it. The original point of this thread was to talk about some pop psychology concepts. You now turn it into a Scientology debate as to why modern medicine and in particular neurology and psychiatry are fraudulent. Sorry I aint buying your bag of apples today. Got to many worms in them for me to digest and I saw what those worms did to my good friend Tommy Cruise.

Hey Ghost here is some feedback for you. I agree with you and BC Chick that some illnesses are hyped to sell drugs. However I do need to clarify my belief about mental illnesses and certain disorders as well. ADHD is an organic disease. Its measurable on mri's and cat scans and there are both neurological and psychiatric conditions that result from it. Its a lot more then added energy. There is a neuro-chemical imbalance caused by disturbances in the frontal lobe probably as a result of an inability to maintain or process certain chemicals and there is actually a wide range of neurological and physical things that go out of whack and no it can not be controlled just by diet or discipline alone. One chemical seratonin which we now know when depleted causes clinical depression a disease that has specific tests to measure it, seems to also amplify negative adhd symptoms and inter-related to them and when seratonin levels are kept at a certain level, i.e., medication is administered to block them from being passed out by the body, it not only relieves depression but many adhd symptoms. This is why for example anti-depressants do work with some adhd patients particularly adults with adhd. Drugs that prevent seratonin depletion seem to help alleviate adhd symptoms as well as Wellbutrin which works on dopamine levels. We also know depressive mood disorders, obsessive compulsive disorders, adhd and anxiety disorders are both neurological and psychiatric in manifestation and most often inter-connected and studies are now showing the brain can be mapped to show how the brain malfunctions suggesting these are not imagined illnesses but actual physical disturbances to the brain caused by certain chemical imbalances or damage to certain parts of the brain or genetic predisposition, i.e., people born with neurotransmitters that are too thin to conduct transmission which in turn can cause these illnesses or others such as epilepsy or schitzophrenia once blamed on bad mothers. Slight lesions to the brain can cause these. Allergies can cause these. Aquired brain injuries can cause these. Exposure to toxic chemicals can cause these. What I was challenging was the use of the word disorder for a condition defined in such a general nature it could apply to anyone. Illnesses such as depressive illness, attention deficit hyper activity disoder, obsessive compulsive disorder, anxiety disorder, are very real. They are not automatically diagnosed. Psychiatrists are careful to rule out other things first and they have very specific and particular symptoms and physical origins and manigestations that can be measured and are not subjective but objective in definitive content. Now mind you they can be misdiagnosed of course. Sometimes it can take years to render a proper diagnosis. Also medication for general anxiety disorders may make a person with clinical depression sicker and vice versa. Brain tumours can cause many of the same symptoms as can other diseases and dementia and simply aging or vitamin defficiencies because of poor diet. Are some people simply depressed as opposed to clinically depressed? Yes. I think though there is a danger in misdiagnosing something as trivial when it might not be just as much as I think there is a danger in diagnosing something as serious when it may be trivial. That is what I meant. Genuinely depressed individuals, people with adhd, ocd, anciety disorder, believe me don't choose it, it chooses them at birth or through other illnesses. They can try learn behaviour to control it, they certainly can engage in a healthy lifestyle, diet, and exercise, etc., but there is a limit. All that stuff is important but the anology is no different then someone with high blood pressure, high cholesterol or say diabetes or epilepsy. These are conditions that require medical prescription assistance and it would be crazy for someone do endanger their life or live their life full of pain and suffering when they do not have to because they blame themselves for being morally weak. A genuine case of adhd or depression or anxiety disorder or ocd is no different then diabetes, high blood pressure, etc. That said why I get annoyed is because simplistic pop psychology clouds the issue and focuses our attention on what I personally believe are free choice issues and lead people to mix those with serious psychiatric and neurological disorders that are best treated with a combination of treatment approaches including medication. Do psychiatrists over-diagnose depression, adhd, etc.? Well studies have shown they are more likely to diagnose women then men as depressed and boys more then girls as having adhd suggesting some of that could have come about from gender biases and children with discipline problems who are not adhd can be misdiagnosed by it, particularly by their parents insisting its adhd and not poor diet and lack of supervision, which brings us back to your comments and why to an extent I concede them, but I think its a bit of both know what I mean?

Lol how you get to Israel out of this is amazing but not I can't say I am surprised. When in doubt in regards to any discussion, throw in the world Israel or Zionist to distract from the issue right? The issue in case you didn't notice was Zimbabwe. And just so you know yes we already know it is Israel's fault. Thanks.

I am with white and Bush on this one. His arrogance and ego in my humble opinion caused him to be very rigid and close minded to anything he did not agree with. Lol. Kind of like me. (beat you to it Bush) I prefer Hawkins myself if I have to get out into the cosmos. I like multiple demensions. I never could accept all that black between the stars as just being nothing. Makes no sense.

Selective and subjective absolutely. Do I think either is an anti-semite lol, I honestly do not think they are although I find specific remarks they may make at times anti-semitic. I think they are genuinely motivated by what they think are clear black and white beliefs as to what is right and wrong and are so convinced of their being morally right they just can not imagine they end up engaging in the very exercises they claim to accuse Israel of. Kind of ironic. Now as for me, I am but a Zionist fool conditioned into eating Montreal bagels or dreaming about Sarah Silverman and me doing the Hora.

Kuzadd you stated; "one thing I forgot, wrt IDF attacking civilians intentionally. What did you think all the cluster bombs in Lebanon were about?" You also forgot that Hezbollah was using cluster bombs during that same war. In fact in the Middle East, Algeria during its civilian war between 1993 and 1998, Egypt, Sudan, Syria, Iraq, and Iran have used cluster bombs. In fact the US, China, Russia, India, Pakistan have also used them. In fact there are so many nations that have them in their arsenal it makes it imperative we try convince all nations to give them up. But of course in your world, we simply select out the actual context of who uses them and where and infer its only used by one nation in isolation because that nation is full of demons right? Cluster bombs are just dead wrong whoever uses them if that was your point. If your point was to be selective and exploit that obvious point for your specific Israel is poo thesis, that is obvious too. Regards, Rue, 22nd Counter Poo Unit, Conditioned Zionist Zombie Squadron Cabal Cell 2267

More love poems between Kuzadd and moi; Kuzadd you stated; "You made it clear you loathe the man and all his alleged teachings a followers, hence it was obvious you were smearing me!" You are being a tad paranoid. I was challenging your favaourable opinions of Finklestein. You stated; "I can't bear another long winded nonsensical response filled with generalisations again!" You asked me a question, I have you a specific answer. You stated; "Yup, when I pointed out to you Israel targets civilians intentionally, as all other occupiers do and have done, as the US is doing in Iraq, has done in Japan and Germany, Korea and Vietnam, you called me an anti-semite immediately!" Again Kuzadd you have made an allegation that is fabricated. Produce the words where you stated the above and I responded accordingly. I think this is the 4th or 5th time you have made an allegation and when I have asked you to provide the words, you have remained silent. Kind of makes you look silly Kuzadd don't you think? One of the reasons I place your comments in quotation marks, is so you can see I do not fabricate them. You stated; "... if you wish to use ad-hominem attacks against your own people and others , feel free, as for me, I will continue to discount you as a serious thinking person, because people who resort to ad-hominem attackst , have to be dismissed immediately in my book..." Kuzadd read back your responses. You have made numerous allegations as to what you claim I stated let alone what you claim to have stated, and when I have asked you to provide the words, you have refused. That in fact means when you make such comments and can't substantiate them, you not I are engaging in the alleged "ad-hominem" (sic) exercise you accuse me of. Kuzadd you have pronounced views about Israel and so embrace someone who you think expresses the same opinions you do. I have challenged Finklestein's words and your support for them. That is what people do on this forum-debate opinions. Since Finklstein's remarks are often highly personal and do not represent political opinions but in fact express negative subjective generalizations as to an identified group's personal characteristics and does not debate their opinions-it deserves in my opinion strong condemnation for doing just that. If you want to take this personally then feel free to do so I can't stop you. You stated; "Your as fooled as they come, fooled into attacking people of different opinions, conditioned into silencing critics." Lol. Me a fool? Never heard that one before. What was that about "ad hominem" (sic) attacks. Woopsy you slipped again Kuzadd. Do as you say not as you do right? Lol. Again I think you are being a tad melodramatic when you state I have been conditioned into silencing critics. Again sorry to burst any theories of yours but I haven't been brainwashed by the Zionist cabal or Mossad or Billy Crystal or Adam Sandler or any Hollywood produces, bankers, or other such sinister forces. The only thing I know for sure that I am conditioned to do is need to pee when I drink coffee or beer or hold my stomach in when a young woman walks by. That and saying "you are right I am a fool" to my wife or daughters or cats.

He has no automatic right to enter Israel. He is not a citizen of that country. In my opinion he was a security risk because of the potential incitement his words could cause. Do I think the Israeli government was politically motivated in removing him. Of course. Kind of obvious.

Oh by the way I was stripped seached in Canada on my return from Amsterdam when I was 17. I survived just as I survived by own gp doing the yearly prostate exam. He cut his nails Buffy.

Buffy the reason I do not take your posts seriously is because you to me personally it is blatantly obvious you are trying to exploit the above incident for your usual Israel is poo political agenda. Your selective outrage for me is hard to take. Tell me, will you come on this post and also show equal outrage over the fact in Iran, journalists have been rounded up and arrested and tortured and there is no free press. Will you cry yourself to sleep tonight fretting over what happened to Jelveh Havahar, Maryan Mosseinkah or for that manager Kurd Teacher Farzad Kamanger, the continued persecution of Bahaiis, students and anyone else who dares write anything critical of the government? Tell me, where is your outrage over what is going on with Newspaper Editor Ibrahim Eissa in Egypt or how Abdel Halim Kandil was beaten? Tell us all, do you cry over the car bim assassination of journalist Samir Qassif by Syrian intelligence in Lebanon or their murder of journalist dayf al-Ghazal-al Shuhaibi, Al Nahar and Gabran Tueni? Oh wait, do I hear you crying over Jamal Amar for being beaten senseless by the Yemen Republican guard? Say now do you have sleepless nights over the 58 jouralists deliberately murdered during the algerian civil war between 1993 and 1996? Do you have chills over Bail Subaya being arrested and sentenced to death in Yemen for apostasy for writing an article suggesting the President was preparing his son to take over? Tell me Buffy do you speak of journalists rounded up and arrested and tortured through-out the Middle East other then in Israel or anywhere else in the world? Say now, have you once written in talking about the human rights violations of journalists in Brazil, China, Sri Lanka, Pakistan and elsewhere? Say now, I get it. Let's just pretend there is only one country in the world with problems right Buffy and concentrate all our attention pointing that out. That's credible. It sure impresses me. Here is the point Buffy. The freedom of the press in Israel is a fact. It exists no where else in the Middle East. That is also a fact. Your usual selective attempt to point out the above story to suggest Israel is poo does but one thing-establish you are remarkably selective. Yay for Buffy. She hates Israel. How original.

So when do you fly to Zimbabwe and Sudan on your human rights campaign?