Canuckistani
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Where did all the money go to Attawapiskat?
Canuckistani replied to Moonbox's topic in Federal Politics in Canada
Enron, what's that? Doesn't exist anymore. World Com, bankrupt. -
Where did all the money go to Attawapiskat?
Canuckistani replied to Moonbox's topic in Federal Politics in Canada
How about her victimized by the government stance? Let's say all the money that's gone down the drain in reserves is all just because of incompetence, no malfeasance involved. We make fun of 2nd nation politicians for it, use some pretty harsh language. Why can't we do the same with 1st nations? -
Ok, who's going to make those changes? And what will be the push to do so?
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Not in Attawaspikat. They have to fly to those jobs. And they only last until the mine closes, not a long term plan. If 325 mil flowing into the community, on top of all the govt money doesn't kick start an economy, nothing will. And natives not taking or sticking to jobs from a nearby development is also nothing new. None of it makes the res economically viable. You want to force them to take jobs if there are some, you're back to confrontation again.
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Judge laments refusal of police to enforce the law
Canuckistani replied to Argus's topic in Federal Politics in Canada
And they will next time, no doubt. And on and on we go. -
It's always immediate problems. That's how we get here. The govt bows to pressure and sends mo money, and the then next place, or the same place has the same problem again. How will you get them to help themselves? They made a mess of the 325 million dollars the mine gave them in contracts, and there is no other economic opportunity in the area. The mine also has a short shelf life. How will your proposal ever change anything - what will be the agent of change?
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You going to have Canada go to a sovereign reserve and tell them what to do? That's just paternalism.
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The mine is a plane trip away. Attawaspikat people were offered jobs, but few took them or took the initiative to take training for them. The usual story. Who wants to live off reserve and work hard when you get stuff given to you on reserve? I'm sure DeBeers would have been happy to hire locally, since it would be a pr feather in their cap and a local workforce is always better. But, Attawaspikat was given 325 million dollars in contracts to service the mine, catering what have you. Attawaspikat claims to have realized a profit of 100,000 on those contracts. Even when jobs are provided, they're not taken.
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Judge laments refusal of police to enforce the law
Canuckistani replied to Argus's topic in Federal Politics in Canada
Where's this judge been the last few years? Never heard of Caledonia? -
Just another Bantustan and welfare dressed up in a suit. Invest in Nativeville.
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If a reserve as rich as the Musqueam an't get it together, few can. I guess we can send them all to Chief Louie school, but he's probably too busy looking after his people. And nobody would go anyway, because the chiefs and their cronies on the reserves are doing just fine, thank you. As Adrianne Arsenault showed, the Attawaspikat residents don't actually support Chief Spence and what she's doing, but those people never seem to speak up.
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Thank you. And for the record, I'm not a CPC supporter, swing way too far left for that. But, if Harper were able to cut this gordian knot, I might just have to vote for him, because that would be a huge achievement. Coming down from your dream castle is a huge knock. I know, I've built my own in the past. But reality must be faced, or we just have a group of welfare dependent people for whom it's never enough. Natives need to have the same status as anybody else in Canada, or we ruin the whole idea of Canada. We have to get there - might as well be now.
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They have had help. They don't wan the govt to run the show, and neither do you - so who should? You're going to have to show here that you have found a new way helping them to help themselves. How can a reserve in the middle of nowhere with nothing ever help themselves? Bottom line with what you are suggesting is just more welfare, for ever. Confronting them may not be palatable, but may be the only option. Provide a carrot - money to relocate - and a stick - no money where currently located. And no relocating to another reserve to do the whole thing over again - we've already tried that. Relocate to where the jobs are, live like everybody else does. You want to buy an apartment building or a bunch of houses and call it your community, feel free. But you have to earn the money to keep that going, not keep relying on handouts.
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Sure. I think you'll find that a lot of reserves aren't viable. And even the Musqueam reserve in Vancouver, sitting on hundreds of millions of dollars was crying the blues about having substandard housing. Not the chiefs of course, but the ordinary resident. The govt is supposed to give them mo money. Why does a reserve that has lots of money, good income from investments, and is a city bus ride away to jobs for the people need the feds to give them anything?
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always easier to shoot down than put forth ideas. The thing is, that if the reserve isn't economically viable, what other option besides giving it welfare could there be? Artificial creating of economic activity, as people have called for. That's just welfare in a suit. IMO support for reserves needs to be eliminated, with funding provided for the natives to transition to a wage economy in a place where there are jobs to be had. If they want to stay on the reserve and live in the traditional ways, let them. You don't need money for that.
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Many sick FN communities like this. If the govt steps in to help them beyond sending more money, look what happens, complaints about it interfering in a sovereign nation.
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What are some other options? How can the govt do anything if natives insist they are sovereign nations? All the govt can do in that case is give them more foreign aid.
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Have you followed what the CBC has uncovered, about empty new houses at Attawapiskat? Boxes of donated items by well meaning Canadians sitting unopened because no volunteers could be bothered found to open them. So how do you get improvements to these people thru a band government that is either that incompetent or malfeasant? Which brings us to the point of the sovereign nation delusion. The only way to fix this as you are suggesting, is to close reserves that have no economic reason for being and integrated natives into the mainstream economy. Otherwise, what you're suggesting is that we should just send them bigger welfare cheques so they can sit in their reservations and not bother us. The former would get the govt accused of paternalism and denying the sovereignity of the FN's. The second is just the status quo with mo money. It all starts with confronting the natives on their sovereignty delusions.
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But that's the thing. You confront their delusions and they will flip out. These delusions are the first thing that needs to be confronted. Placate Them No More.
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Don't agree with that. I want Walls street to go to jail, I want the laws of Canada upheld as well. No more Caledonias. It's not about punishment but upholding the rule of law, instead of racist "they don't know any better and need special treatment." We don't send white collar criminals to jail for a long time anyway, but at least it would put an end to the current Attawaspikat govt.
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It has to be fixed on the govt's side - the govt has to make clear they're not entering nation to nation negotiations. As I say, getting as Supreme Court judgement here if necessary would help to back up this position. I don't want to punish FN's - it's rediculous to say so. I do want us to quit trying to bribe them off to keep quiet tho. If that leads to some civil disruption, let's have it out, see where the dust settles. If most Canadians want to give FN's nation status, or special rights forever, well that's democracy, but I don't. I want all Canadians to be treated equally.
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Well yes. Just with all the numbers thrown around, people focus only on say the fed gov contribution. There have been huge inflows of money into this reserve, from many sources. Yet, people live in shacks and are freezing. Time for the govt to either take over running the band, or tell them to solve their own problems, not keep giving them more money.
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The pov the people hold is up to them. But during any meetings, negotiations etc, it should be made clear that these are not nation to nation events, but Canada dealing with a portion of it's population. The govt should probably seek clarity from the Supreme Court here, as they did with the conditions for Quebec separation. It didn't stop the separation movement, but it made Canada's position clear. Unfortunately up to now the politicians have played the game you're suggesting, which keeps this particular dream castle alive for the FN's. I guess they thought it was cheaper to give them this bit of fluff, but I think it's the core question. If natives are Canadians, subject to Canadian law just as much as the rest of us, it might prevent the inaction when they protest, and would also get Canadians to ask why a certain race of Canadians gets a special deal when we're all supposed to be equal.
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Not to mention 450,000 a month in welfare payments. What happened to the 325 million on contracts they got from DeBeers but claim to only have made a profit of 100,000 on? Why did they have a housing emergency when they had at least 10 million in investments? Why did they buy a Zamboni for their rink while people froze. Why is the cost of administering their band so high, why are the salaries so high while others have no houses?
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But that is the real problem. If they consider themselves sovereign nations, they're going to demand to be treated as such, as they already have. It's a real problem and it's the first one that needs to be fixed.