tml12

Shoop, I am positive 3 to the right economically and I am borderline still supporting the Liberals and the CPC is -3. Oh my.

There is also the concept of willful blindness. If Martin did have an inkling that something was wrong but avoided looking into it he could be found criminally responsible. Granted such a case would never see the light of day. Lucky, lucky Martin he will just have to go down as the second least successfully leader of the Liberals in the last century - come on down John Turner. At least PM jr. avenged PM sr. kinda .... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes I guess Harper could use the "you had the option" phrase again for Martin. Martin even avenged Turner I would argue (although that wouldn't be too hard now, eh)

Martin showed his true coulours when he cancelled the tax cut for business in order to save his arse. I don't REALLY think there is any ideology guiding the Liberals. They are in government for the sake of having power and in order to line their own pockets. (Oh, they can prove we stole $1.14 Million - guess we better pay that back!) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> hahaha...I'll give you that!

http://www.canada.com/national/story.html?...10-379915b0e6c6 The U.S. Senate has voted against a measure against allowing Arctic drilling. This, of course, will be great news for conservatives but will leave others scratching their heads. Does anyone in geology know how much oil the US will get from this? I heard it will last a few months only...

Still, all is not lost for the left. The accusation alleges that the "spill" came from the VP's office...this is still a very serious accusation. It means that something fishy is going on. Immediate blame must be placed on Novak though. He is the journalist scum who literarily blew the cover of hundreds of CIA agents who were using the name of a fake Boston law firm (as reported on 60 Minutes last Sunday). The far left may be purely idealistic, but there centrist friends have a case here.

I am afraid I don't understand what point you are trying to make. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The number of incidences with regards to assault on women with football players increases during the football season. The so called myth about group assault on women is also reality - we will never know the true statistics unless women are brave enough to report these cases. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is a sick disgrace. If he was screwing around and knew he was HIV-positive then he should be jailed for a long time. I have read about this in the papers and am dumbfounded. If you are that inconsiderate, wait, that cruel and self-centred then we have a right as a society to ostracize you from the community. On the other hand, if he didn't know then I would cut him some slack but still punish him for any abuse/assault that may have occurred...shame.

I cannot believe people are surprised by this. There is a lot we are not told about by our government. There is a lot of stuff that goes on that they would rather we didn't know about. Remember, in this age of technology there are a lot more ways for governments to moniter us, etc. How do people get our personal information? I have been the victim of identity theft. How? No one knew my PIN/Card number, etc. I do not think we are far away from our own Patriot Act in this country, if we don't have one already.

I'm not. And I bet you that it's not the Americans who are doing the major interrogating. They don't have the stomachs for it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The CIA has secret prisons? I am shocked!!! I never thought the CIA had places where they kept people and interrogated them without actually charging them (like in Cuba). In reality, yes they exist and no we shouldn't be shocked because I doubt this is front page news in the states.

Are you referring to the Bloc we have here? Because we cannot have another referendum until Quebec City calls for one and with the federalists in power now through 2008 that is unlikely to happen until then.

Not to come across as pro-Liberal but to play their game for a minute... Does anyone who is not THAT far right-wing REALLY think the Liberal Party is socialist? I mean, I would consider Martin at the LEAST right-leaning on economic issues. I mean, he was a CEO and now his son is in the company. I think the Liberal Party is, as they are officially known in political science circumstances, the "radical middle." Trudeau, I believe, coined that concept and depending on their leader they advocate a right or left leaning centrism (I would call Martin and Turner the right-leaning ones and Trudeau and, to a lesser extent Chretien, the left-leaning ones).

I find it hard to admit that they'd be in that much more trouble. I mean, after all, we have heard some pretty nasty stuff already. I think we must assume, even if we are anti-Liberal, that this is just a ploy by Harper to try and make us think he should be PM.

I would love to see the Greens be a national party but I do not see them getting any seats in the next election. Here in Quebec, we have again become so polarized by the sovereignty issue that we don't even hear about the Greens (although last time we did, they were ahead of the Conservatives!!!) I think I may consider voting Green next time around but until they become part of the national scene and the debate the NDP will continue to be the only pro-environment alternative.

Currently, Canadians cannot apply for the US green card lottery. On a happier note for Burns, which I am sure he knows already, if you are in any way skilled as a doctor you can go down to the states and make a million dollars a year. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Green Card Lottery??? Is that different from just applying to become a US Citizen? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You cannot apply to become a US citizen until you have maintained residence in the US for a period of time (I think it is about 5-7 years). You cannot just move to the US and live there for 5-7 years, you must register from the US government (the green card lottery) and be recognized as a US resident by said government for that period of time. Every year, the US government prohibits certain citizens from applying for the green card. At the present time, citizens of the UK, Canada, South Korea, the Phillipines, and several other countries cannot apply. I do not know where Burns is so I cannot comment on his specific case (I was assuming he is a Canadian citizen though). I do not know where Burns

Do you really think that will help, paying us to have kids?

The central problem (And arguably the major case for whether or not this government will survive) is whether or not you believe the Liberal government has lost the moral authority to govern and whether or not there is any proof to implicate THIS Liberal team for the failures of the past one. If the NDP continues to prop up this Liberal government, then the opposition will need three independents to dump the government and force an election. Hope that helps, tml

crazymf, IF, as Martin claims, Chretien was running sponsorship from the PMO, then he was micromanaging it and it is likely that Martin left it for Chretien to deal with. This is, of course, IF Chretien was running it from the PMO. I do not think we will ever know if Martin truly knew because there is no way to prove it. Should he have known if he really didn't know? Well, you could argue either way. Technically as finance minister you handle much of the government money, but if your boss, the PM, says "I'll handle this one" then there isn't much you can do about it.

Scott, Really, you were surprised? Some public works minister you are!!!

Yes, you do. How many Stanley Cups have they won, in total? One consolation, they haven't had 38 years of pathetic futility like the leafs. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> OT: I HATE THE LEAFS

Currently, Canadians cannot apply for the US green card lottery. On a happier note for Burns, which I am sure he knows already, if you are in any way skilled as a doctor you can go down to the states and make a million dollars a year.

Probably not. From Chretien's point of view, if he is going down, he is not going down alone. But do you really think Martin was involved? Interesting OT question for this post.

I agree that Chretien ought to, and likely will, win. Gomery's behaviour and words have been pretty inappropriate for a sitting judge. That really depends on the circumstances of the case. If the Liberals are in a minority government, the destruction of all of Gomery's work could look pretty bad for them. They did, after all, call an expensive inquiry to clear the air. It would look kind of weak if the air gut thicker rather than clearer. However, by the time that case gets done with, Canadians might be even more fatigued with "Adscam" than they currently are. In that case, the wrath of the electorate would fall on anyone still clamouring on about the issue. Given that Harper has picked this as his hill to die on, well... fate has a way of accomodating people, I guess. If Chretien is successful in his challenge, the BQ will use it for maximum rhetorical gain. That could be bad. The people that believe that the Finance minister is responsible for every penny of program spending are pretty surprised, as other threads here will demonstrate. I don't know. Pending the outcome of Chretiens challenge, it may well be that Chretien can still create a huge problem for Martin out of this. My candidates for last laugh are Chretien and Duceppe. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Usually the Finance Minister would be responsible, except that Chretien ran sponsorship out of the PMO. If Chretien wins, he could get the last laugh. However, it would be difficult not to find some fault with his handling of all this. I am not saying he is personally corrupt, but he should have had more control over the corruption that did occur. You are correct that all of this is good news for the Bloc.

In other words, you are saying that Quebequers are seriously misinformed about what happened. This is ironic considering how closely Quebequers followed the Gomery commission. What does this say about the quality of the French language media? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think that what August is saying, and what is true, is that you must evaluate Quebec different in terms of the Gomery Report. Quebec has the Bloc, English Canada doesn't. Furthermore, Quebec was where the scandal was rooted. When this became public, to English Canadians it was just another struggle with Quebec...but to Quebecers it was a deeply personal and flagrant attempt to buy the hearts of Quebecers.

Yes Burns, Bush won the second time. What is your point? No one is even talking about that anymore...

Chretien will challenge Gomery's findings and will let us taxpayer's off the hook this time around. I think he has a very good chance of winning, as Gomery did make several comments that seemed to implicate Chretien before he even got on trial (i.e. "small town cheap.") However, I doubt anyone in the current Liberal government cares, because by the time we know the result of Chretien's challenge Martin will either be leading a majority government or he will be in retirement. As for Martin being exonerated, is anyone truly surprised? Martin said from day one if he was proved to be involved he would step down. He called the inquiry because he knew the only way to save himself from an annoying public would be to call this inquiry. He knew Chretien would be implicated as he ran the program from the PMO. Martin got the last laugh in all of this.

I say the time has come to back off. You lie down with dogs, you get fleas and Layton andd teh ND's should be distancing tehmselves from the Liberals. An election is coming, sooner or later, and it's best to head off the inevitable accusations that would come of working with a party that has proven itself to be riddled with corruption and incompetence. There's no more "waiting until the report" to fall back on. Where ar eyou hearing this? According to the Globe, the ND's were calling for restrictions on the transfer of federal funds to provinces that pay doctors who both work in the public system and offer services for a fee. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No to election now, as it will produce another minority. We will wait for 30 days after Gomery's final report and make our decision then.