Hodad

Why did you start this thread? Does Trump plane to build these giant camps, round people up and put them there? If so (and every indication is that this is his plan) then what are you complaining about?

I actually would not bet that no jury will judge him not guilty. A lot of Republican America, at this point, are much more interested in the end than the means. Anything goes-- "win" at any cost. That's why they supported Trump in the first place, and why they support him even more when he violates the social and legal order. In other words, I have zero doubt that there are a LOT of people who would happily lie to get on a jury and then vote to acquit based on loyalty rather than on the facts. We saw exactly that play out in the impeachment trials. In both cases, there was no question about Trump's behavior. There was no question of guilt. The Republicans in the Senate--with the exception of a few people of conscience-- simply voted not to hold him accountable. They want the same ends, so the means cannot be wrong. So when a Jury gets involved it's never a sure thing. He may escape some of these cases. I think he probably won't escape all of them.

? Did you actually read that article? Every paragraph mentions a lack of evidence. In other words, the Republicans are making plenty of accusations, but have provided almost nothing to support them. And it seems like every time they invite someone to testify (like Archer) it ends up completely undermining the allegation. Anything is possible, but so far they've got nothing. And yes, Trump has broken multiple laws in serious ways. The most obvious is taking, hiding, refusing to return and lying about the possession of classified documents. He knew it was wrong--boasted that he shouldn't have them while showing them to people not cleared to see them. He did it anyway. Like most of Trump's transgressions, it was willful. And yes, you can break the law by "just talking." I don't think there was any confusion on the part of the crowd. They knew exactly what Trump meant when he told them to march right now to the capital and fight like hell to "stop the steal" or they wouldn't have a country anymore. He posed to them an existential crisis, and they acted accordingly. The token use of the word "peaceful" doesn't erase the rest of what he said, and it certainly didn't fool the crowd. They did exactly what he wanted them to do. And you can be certain it was what he wanted because he sat and watched the insurrection unfold on TV and didn't lift a finger to stop it until it had mostly run its course. And he did it while those advisors closest to him told him over and over that he had to condemn and stop it. And yes, the fake elector scheme broke the law in multiple ways, and at least 3 of the fake electors have given testimony that they took part in the scheme because Trump directed them to do so. It's really sad that you support a man not for being good, or right, or just, but because he's done so much that is objectively wrong and has managed to escape accountability for those actions. I'm certain that you haven't read the indictments--particularly the federal indictments. They go to significant effort to disarm the "just talking" defense. They state specifically that it is fine for Trump to challenge elections, that it was even fine for him to lie about winning the elections, but that the enumerated actions detailed in the document constitute felony crimes. He's not being prosecuted for simply speaking, but rather for actions.

1. Let no one accuse you of taking the high road. 2. You're really just lying here. It's possible Joe lied, but there is not evidence, let alone proof. According to everyone involved, including Devon Archer, Joe never talked (or was observed to have talked) business with Hunter. And there certainly are not a record of millions of dollars going to Joe. Again, anything is possible, but you're going to need some evidence to make a plausible case, and evidence amounting to proof to justify consequences. You currently have neither. 3. Jeebus, yes there is considerable evidence--amounting to proof. The Eastman memo (aka the coup memo) was drafted and discussed at length. Many people told them it was illegal. Eastman acknowledged that it was illegal and asked for a pardon ahead of it. Then they actually tried to put it into action. People tried to deliver fake elector ballots to Mike Pence during the certification. While outside the Capitol Trump was continuing to apply enormous pressure to Mike Pence to declare him the winner--to the point that the crowd that marched to insurrection were chanting "hang Mike Pence." That's all a matter of public record at this point--and indeed, much of it conducted in public. And as Trump's cronies continue to flip we're going to hear more and more of this testimony, which goes not just to the facts already in evidence, but the state of mind, the deliberateness of what they tried to do.

In a nation of laws, that means the reaction to crime is punishment. Not throwing a fit about being held accountable and going on a revenge mission targeting anyone who would dare hold you accountable. Hunter Biden? Because Joe hasn't been tied to anything significant. He could be someday, who knows. I'm not like you cultists with your dogma of Trumpal infallibility. If Joe Biden has broken the law he should be held accountable like everyone else. And it would be wrong for him to use the powers of his office to exact vengeance on those upholding the law. One can only hope. But that's not what you actually want. You want power. You want spite. You want vengeance. You want to "win" at any cost, even unto the end of the republic. <-- This is not hyperbole. If you stop and think you'll agree. You've already supported an attempted coup that everyone involved knew was illegal. You've already supported the enactment of widespread fraud to win the next election. The constitution, at this point, is just an inconvenience.

See, if you don't rely on evidence and dispense with debate it's not about facts or truth, it's just religion. You simply have faith that your tubby orange demi-god could not possibly have lost an election--despite all data and forecasts pointing to a probable loss. Seems like you're too far gone to escape the gravity of the cult, so my advice is to pray. Pray to Trump that he might be politically reborn and will smite your "foes." Because you're sure as hell not capable of winning the argument.

Eh, you're even wrong about this.^ We can agree this definitely isn't debate. Debate sets an expectation of logical, well reasoned arguments supported by facts and evidence. This is just you doing evidence-free ranting.

You're a true kook. Of course Biden won in a fair election. Again, it's the most scrutinized election in history, recounted, audited, forensically audited and challenged in court SO MANY TIMES by you sore losers that if there had been anything untoward it would have been discovered. There's not even any reason to suspect any illegal activity at a meaningful scale. You can wish it and hope it, but it doesn't make it real. I knew a crazy person once who insisted that her house was infested with bedbugs. No evidence of bites or damage could be found. Multiple family members tried to help her. No bedbugs could be found. They brought in multiple exterminating companies and none of them could find bedbugs. Some even fumigated "just in ca$e" and still, the infestation remained as it always had, squarely in her mind. That's where you're at mentally, but instead of seeing phantom bedbugs you see phantom voter fraud. And just like her, you get pissed and lash out any time someone tries to tell you that there's no bedbugs and this is all in your head.

It is amazing how some people can't grasp even the basics of logical thought and debate. They just go around tossing out conspiracy claims and think the rest of the world should waste their time trying to prove a negative. Sigh.

Hey, look. Another Gish gallop from our resident fiction-bot. It's a rare talent to be constantly saying so much without managing to say anything that's true.

The rest of the post is pure crap, but on this point we agree. Those ideas are vile and repulsive. A 6th-grade goth might very well concoct such plans-- or perhaps a bitter failed artist. The problem is that Americans who share your views want to make that bitter lunatic the most powerful person on the planet.

Maybe you should stop using completely fictional "election cheating"--a claim which you cannot substantiate in any way--as an excuse for all sorts of lawlessness and vindictiveness. For the record, it's not okay to attack police, smash one's way through the US Capitol and hunt down terrified legislators. Regardless of whatever fantasies you've concocted.

How do you go through your daily life animated only by spite? There is no abuse of law and justice on display. Just regular old justice. The self-proclaimed party of personal responsibility clearly has zero interest in being the party of accountability. You think the laws shouldn't apply to you? Sorry, for the time being we're still a nation of laws built on a foundational constitution and most of us aren't interested in changing that. Thankfully, you don't even get to cast a vote for the dictator you adore. Sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Gaslighting? I think you're projecting. There was extensive violence to both people and property and it's well documented on video. 100+ Capitol Police officers injured. Deaths associated with the event. And people aren't just "in any kind of trouble," they're going to prison with serious time.

Sorry, but you're simply ignorant of the facts. Check a dictionary and you'll find that Jan 6 fits the definition of insurrection quite nicely. It's been identified as an insurrection in 20+ court cases. It's been identified as an insurrection in legislation. That ship has sailed. You're just pissing in the wind. And frankly, the insurrection was a lesser threat to the Republic than the the quiet coup attempted in the background. Mike Pence's commitment to the constitution is the only reason we still have a proper country. His politics were awful, but when everything was on the line he put country first, and I'll always give him credit for that.

Indeed, even weirder than Trump planning this stuff is the idea that average Americans will embrace a dictator if they think he would hurt their "enemies." Or in this case, average Canadians. We've all seen this movie before and we all know how it ends, but they're still rushing toward it with open arms.?‍♂️

No, I think most people with even a passing interest in politics are aware of that thoroughly debunked piece of garbage. Tons of conspiracy thinking, and not a shred of evidence. No one from that video was shown doing anything illegal and no one was charged, let alone prosecuted or convicted. AFAIK, the only legal proceeding related to 2000 mules is the defamation suit filed against the creeps who produced it for lying about the people they depicted. You should probably stop paying people to lie to you.

This is not a secret. He and his cronies tried to sabotage the vote certification with an illegal slate of fake electors and a violent insurrection. The Eastman memo is often called the "coup memo" because that's exactly what it lays out.

You are lying, top to bottom, as usual. Just like, diarrhea of dishonesty. It's comical. And disgusting. 1. Mueller DID NOT say there was no evidence of collusion. He pushed back on Barr's characterization. 2. Crowdstrike published an entire article to set the record straight, so people like you and your garbage media would stop misrepresenting their findings and the testimony. They do know it was hacked. 3. They do know exactly who did it. COZY BEAR and FANCY BEAR…. At DNC, COZY BEAR intrusion has been identified going back to summer of 2015, while FANCY BEAR separately breached the network in April 2016.” 4. They do know who ordered it: Trump's idol, Vladimir Putin. The Senate report states on page 48: “The Committee found that specific intelligence as well as open source assessments support the assessment that President Putin approved and directed aspects of this influence campaign.” You're wrong about every single point. And on every single point, you've been corrected multiple times. You're either too thick to take in new information or too dishonest to talk about facts that make the Trump campaign look even more guilty. Because guess what, the guy Manafort was having all those clandestine meetings and communications with--Kilimnik, was almost certainly involved in both the influence campaign and the hack and leak. Just ignore it all and shout "no collusion" over and over again. It's "worked" so well to make these facts disappear.

No, you didn't. ? Like I told you before, one person was found guilty of illegal voting in Cuyahoga county, and it was a Trump voter voting in-person, absentee and also in Florida.

Then pick someone who actually believes in those things, not the man who tried to stage a coup.

Eh, some people have values and principles that are more important than "win at all costs."

No, the alternative would be anybody else. I think Republicans would do well to move on to someone who is both authentically conservative and a decent human being. Take off the track suit and put down the kool-aid and take a look around. Conservatives existed long before whatever Trump is and they'll exist long after he's incarcerated or has passed away from age and being rotten inside.

No, it's really pure nonsense. There are lots of conservatives who are anti-Trump, who think he's unfit for any office, let alone the office. But in your mind apparently there is no conservative worldview or room for disagreement within it. It's Trumpism or hit the road.

Read that back to yourself out loud. You're literally saying that the only way to be conservative/on the political right, is to support Donald J. Trump. Think about that and then ponder why we think you are in a Trump cult. All of conservative political "thinking" boiled down to just one wildly flawed individual personality, who was politically agnostic and nominally a Democrat up until the breeze blew the other direction. Pretty farked up.