Altai

I dont understand ?

Yes and it was a response to another poster who was defending the translation of verses with different meanings of the words and I was triying to explain him that how would the verses be illogical if he uses the irrelevant meanings of the words. So you can use the "farmer" meaning of word "kafir" and what an absurd translation it would be. Got it ?

whuatttt ? LoooL. I really cant believe you got it in that way, so I said that word kafir actually implies "farmers" in the verse ? LoooL

I have explained that. You just dont want to understand. 9:29 is not an order to attack someones but its a limitation. If you accept it as an order given Muslims to attack non-believers, it will contradict all the other verses which prohibits to oppress others. But it also mean to put a limit in a fight, fight against them until they pay war reparations, because you may have to fight against them at any moment because of their agressive attitudes against you. Read the surah from beginning, its all about the aggressive attitudes against Muslims.

Post 79 If you read the Surah from beginning, you will see that its not an order for an offensive act but an order to respond an offensive act.

It is derived from jzy, which means "paying the penalty". We also have a turkish word "Ceza", derives from the same root and means "penalty", not "tax".

Yes the verse 9:29 also makes me confused when I read first but if we get it as an offensive order, it will contradict with all the other verses which forbids offensive actions. But It also mean "you dont have to fight them" but if you will have to fight them because of their agressive attitudes, fight them until they pay "jizyah". Here another question is what is "Jizyah". Translators says its a kind of "tax" based on stories, prophet was taking it in different times. But according to the dictionary meaning of the word, it means a kid of "war reparations" in response to the damage given to Muslims. So the stories cannot be a true source. According to its dictionary meaning, its war reparations.

LoL, read the pre-post again. I gave the number of verses. Forbids to oppression of anyone.

Islam forbids opression. There are many verses about it. Some of them are in pre posts and below another one. From Surah 88, Verses 20,21 meants, Give them advices, remind them, Your duty (Muhammad) is only to give them advice and is to warn them, is to remind them. You are not a bully over them, you dont have a power over them, you cant force them. So I proved that your claim is false.

Yes its different and beautiful I think. This song always makes me cry, I have never been in Central Asia but when I listen this song, I feel that I am belong to there, its my homeland.

You can follow the translation of Turkish Diyanet but they also make mistakes. You have to research yourself when you see something weird. Because the translators always add their personal interpretation like as its the original meaning, despite its not. Yesss this is really so scary that they are misleading people. Quran translates itself. When you translate it wrongly, it will contradict with another verse somewhere in the same surah or in another surah.

Wrong translation again, there is no word in the verse which meets the word "friend" in English. The word which is wrongly translated is Arabic "evliyae" and closest meaning for it in English is "leader" or "someone trustworthy with no doubt" or "pioneer". The Arabic equivalent of the word "friend" is "sadiq".

Nope you got it wrong. 2:193 means to fight against the ones who attacks you because of your life style and to fight them until the system belongs to Islam, because you are Muslims and Islamic system forbids the oppression to others. If they give up to fight against you anymore, then you would only be enemies against the zalimun. Does not mean you "have to be enemies" with Zalimun. You only would be enemies against Zalimun because they may attack you anytime just because of your life style. If you translate it as according to your interests (which you call as cherry picking) it will contradict with the Quran complately. 2:189: fight against the ones who fights against you but do not act extreme, Allah does not like extremists 2:190: kill them whereever you find them and kick them out of your homeland as the same way they did to you. Because fitnah is much worse than killing a human. Kill them if they fight you, this is the punishment of kaffirs. 2:191: if they give up, then remember that Allah is very forgiving. 2:192: Fight them until there is no fithah anymore and system belongs to Islam, because Islam forbids fitnah. If they give up to fight against you, enemity only would be against Zalimun anymore. This is the true interpretation. If you translate as you said, it will contradict with all other verses. I want to reply with much more examples but I dont have this much of time for a forum discussion. Your claims always contradicts with one another.

You cant understand the verses as you wish based on various meanings of some words. You have to take them properly with their context. The word kafir can also be used to describe "farmers" and you can translate the verses with this meaning. Then verses makes no sense. You cant claim you are a Muslim because you translate it wrong. You claim that even if you translate it as "farmers", this makes them "bad muslims", not "non-muslims".

We have discussed these things before. Islam encourages people to think about life. There are many verses about it. You are wrong one more time.

I really dont understand what you are trying to do. I proved that the verses makes no sense when we translate them with the meanings which you claim.

No I dont mean the term "brainwashing", I am just disturbed by to be targeted personally. Anyway. No I dont give one meaning to a word, I give the most logical meaning according to the usage in the sentence.

Yes I think you are right and I was wrong.

So now you are denying the logic. You claim it maybe translated in different ways even if it make no sense.

I proved in one of my pre post that it does not mean "disbeliever" because Satan is called as "kafir" in Quran despite knows the existence of Allah. It also does not mean "who dont follow Islam", because in another verse two different groups called as "the others who given book and kafirs", these both groups does not follow Islam but they are called differently, if it was meant "who dont follow Islam" both group would be called with one word as "kafirs". Again, I proved you are wrong.

Please read my posts again and if you still dont understand, take a rest of 10 minutes, then read it again. Make the same things until you understand it. By the way, you have been reported for personal attack.

And its a private country that you cant act as you wish. You have to act as we wish.

You cant translete a sentence in different ways based on its various meanings, because it will be a nonsense if you take apart it from the context. As I said in my pre post, the word kafir also means "who hides somethings". For example farmers are called with the same word because of they hide seeds in the soil. Does it make sense if you translate the word kafir as farmer in Quran verses ? Makes no sense. There is no such a thing that Muslims translate it in many different way, this is what you want to believe but its not in reality. Below a video for you, if you really want to learn something. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sA_JfYc-8Y