CITIZEN_2015

It was sometimes in late 90's. I don't remember the exact year but as my best guess I think it was summer of 1997. It wasn't mass gay bashing though. Altogether about half a dozen gays or suspected gays were beaten. It happens too often and also I am not sure the media followed up on every single incident and very often there is no complaint to the police as I said it happens too frequently and most gay people think they are not protected by the law as other citizens.

PIK I do care but the way to change it is not by bombing them out of their backward culture. We should provide humanitarian help but no way I like to see another 155 Canadians lose their lives so that women can walk without a berka in Kabul. Let them take care of their own problems. I followed up last year on Bill C36. Not that it concerned me or affected me but to watch the way the conservatives manipulated to get the bill through. They selected their own pro-bill C36 witnesses to speak, refused to consult those mainly affected and manipulated the result of their own survey and brought some laws much worse and more dangerous than the ones only a year ago was struck down by Supreme Court of Canada for being bad laws. A total mockery of democracy made by a Harper and MacKay coalition. I never vote for a religious person as they are all the same. They think that their ideology comes from God and have every right to impose it on others by any means and Harper is a Christian Evangelist. No Harper is an undemocratic leader. I care too much about democracy to even think of Harper in the incoming election. He ran the most secretive corrupt government in the history of Canada. The way he and his idiot justice minister Peter MacKay manipulated to push undemocratic bills through parliament they made a mockery of democracy and democratic principals in Canada which has been a Canadian tradition. Not to mention his scandals and corruption cases. Worse of all his contempt for the Supreme Court of Canada which is the vanguard of democracy and human rights and constitution in Canada and the manners in which many times Harper tried to undermine SCC has made him an almost dictator.

Argus, you have brought up the tolerance for homosexuals in our culture a couple of times but it is simply not true. In some white cultures (like in Russia) gay parade has been also attacked by fascists and people hurt. As for Canada true Canada has far more tolerant culture than Russia and many other white countries and is by far more tolerant than many Muslim countries but it happens here too though not at the same extend. I was a witness of that myself when I was walking in Gay village in Montreal as I couldn't find parking next to a straight bar on St. Laurent close to gay village which I intended to go and I saw a number of people suddenly came out of their car with bats and started beating just about everyone they suspected of being gay. A couple who were walking in front of me dressed in skirts and wearing make ups were beaten real bad. I saw blood. And while we are discussing white culture and tolerance associated with it (not Argus but others had indicated as a reason for white culture to be superior) so was it a Muslim culture who exterminated 6 million innocent civilian Jews? Was Nazi Germany (or more recent Serbia) a white culture or a Muslim culture????. Homosexuals are being insulted all over Canada too. They use the "F" word on them or whoever some people may suspect them to be homosexual. Yes insults are being thrown by some real losers and real idiots who try to feel good and superior about themselves and a mean of covering up their own inferiority and by putting down other people who usually are falsely known as defenseless they overcome their own inferiority. And Argus there are intolerant people right here in Canada too, including Nazi sympathizers. Though I see it as not part of Canadian culture but a small minority of losers. My point on all this, it happens everywhere though I accept less in Canada. Look all I say is that all cultures have issues. Which one is worse or better is a matter of opinion and is very subjective. Lets not proclaim superiority and be divisive but rather unite as a human race. Am I too illogical or extreme to ask for this?

Geez please don't throw accusations. I don't hate this culture I am part of it. What I hate is when I see and read women deprived of their rights and equality in certain countries. Stripped of their rights to choose what to wear who to marry, and many other basis rights like driving and education in stinky countries like Saudi Arabia and Kuwait and UAE. I admire Canadian culture to have overcome all these (remember 200 years ago same issues existed here) so please stop throwing insults just because I point out the fact that our culture is NOT perfect either and has issues of its own and some people coming over totally ignoring all these facts throwing slogans that their culture (our culture) is superior and I remind them that they should think twice before making such statements. All I say is lets not hate (others who may look, believe or behave differently) and before claiming superiority lets remind ourselves of our own issues too.

So Argus you are saying that alcoholism, drug abuse, wife battering, sexual assaults, teenage pregnancy, Adultry ..... mostly happening in white cultures by SOME NOT ALL whites (not only Canadian but Eastern Europe, US and Western Europe cultures) and the list goes on are smaller problems than covering head to toe and treating women as second class citizens by SOME NOT ALL Muslim people? As your reasons why Canadian cultures is superior? Yes or no?

I understand that and you are entitled to your opinion and choice. But I am making a few points that you seem not to follow. First not all Muslim men treat women as their property or second class citizens or not all Indians treats their wives as subservient but yes regretfully many do. Or not all blacks are criminals. And second no culture is perfect. While I agree certain cultures have issues with how they treat their women (you hand picked Muslims and Indians or I have heard or read about many cases of WHITES BEATING AND ABUSING THEIR WIVES TOO) or statistically more blacks may be engaged in crimes and pimping than whites, the white culture have issues of its own and has its own imperfections and I mentioned a few in my post. Crimes are also committed by whites believe it or not!!!!. Somehow some of you guys think that white culture is superior to other cultures and even a few think it is perfect. Well not so. It is different but not superior. It has its own problems.

I like your user name though not the fact that you generalize all non-Caucasians are covering their wives head to toe and treat them like a property. Generalizations like this are indicative of ignorance and possibly bigotry. So you confine yourself to white areas right? I guess that you won't see head to toe covered ladies but how about issues mostly associated with so called while areas like alcoholism, drugs, prostitution and sexual assaults..... etc.

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It is really a prejudiced view to put everyone in one group and ban them all together because they happened to be born in a certain region or belong to a group of people. Saying no immigrants from Muslim countries regardless of their individual beliefs and standards does certainly qualify for that (at least if you had said no Muslim extremists I would have agreed but painting all with one brush ......) and saying that does not qualify you as brave or standing up for this country but someone who encourages prejudism. Religion is not a choice. It is something people are born with and many choose not to pursue that in adulthood so lets not generalize all saying no certain race or certain regions as immigrants and assess each individual case by case rather than region by region. I have said it before a few times that we need to reduce the number by half in order to let time to absorb new comers and not to overload our health and education systems. And i have said those who wish to live their traditional way are better off to live in their own home country and asked them not to bring their issues and problems here or try to impose their way of life on us but making statements such as no immigrants from Muslim countries is too far and in my view a case of prejudism.

In spite of all the positive contributions that I have listed immigrants have made to this country I think that Immigration numbers are too high. For a country of only 30 million, a 250,000 annual is just too many. A figure half that would enable the country to absorb better and gives time for new comers to adjust and become contributors best. Also immigration should be more based on skills , adoptability and assets. This country is VAST with enormous resources so we do have the capacity to absorb millions more of immigrants but only over a good number of years not to flood our health and education system and create housing crisis (though what has kept housing starts so high creating many jobs are immigrants). We also have to be more selective on skills and adoptability. People who prefer to live in their own traditional way then they can do so best in their home country and please don't bring your discords and political problems and infightings to this country and more importantly don't try to change our way of living or try to impose yours upon us. Take the good parts of this culture and leave the bad out and add the good of yours to the good of ours.

My evidence is based on the many immigrants that I have met in my life and an INDEPENDENT government agency statistics clearly indicating that immigrants have higher than Canadian born education and earning more as well. WHERE DOES YOUR STATISTICS COME FROM!!!??. That immigrants income is only $25000 or worse that economic situation for immigrants has been deteriorating!!!! Did you invent all these or is based on those minority failed immigrants you met? Yes I can see as I said that one may think I was indirectly referring to you but I have already said that this was not my intention and apologized too if you thought that way. I am not going to jump off the bridge though lol to make you happier.

I don't understand when you say you don't understand the relevance of my post you quoted. It was clear I was trying to say a lot more good comes out of immigration than bad. Sure we get bad apples too and in my previous post I did say we should be more selective and careful and less in numbers in order to properly absorb new immigrant but my point is that you paint every immigrant with the same brush and what I say is that there is a lot more good than evil. All that said HJ has brought a great point that in order to preserve our current standard of living and pensions we do need YOUNG immigrants to come to these country become tax payers and contribute to out pension fund. Not to mention the dropping population. Most of immigrant that I know are able to communicate in at least one of the official languages but I agree as I said we should become more selective on skills, adaptability and assets. Again I don't like to see the word "disturb the culture" that you use. THEY BRING THEIR VALUES AND CULTURE to this country and contribute to the culture in this country. They add theirs maybe they don't destroy yours. If a Chinese restaurant opens up in Toronto this will not cause the closure of an existing English restaurant next door it will just provide an alternative for people to have the choice or diversity of both the English as well as the Chinese food. I am puzzled as why you would interpret my post as insult to you. All I said was that to those who are bigots and hate based on color, race, religion, language, gender or orientation no evidence would convince them that immigration is positive. I don't see anywhere in my post I referring to you or even quote your post. So unless you are any or all that then my post was NOT directed at you. You may say that since HJ responded to your post and I responded to his post then indirectly this relates to you? But this was not my intention. They were meant as general comments and I do apologize if somehow you took them personally and were offended. That said your post is very clear that you are directly quoting my post and calling me ignorant in what was supposed to be a debate.

Great response HJ. Though I doubt it all the evidence in the world on how positive immigrants are, is going to convince those are are bigots and hate based on skin color, race, religion, nationality, language, gender or sexual orientation.

Argus, on 12 Aug 2015 - 7:22 PM, said: Based on what evidence or information? Argus, I have known many university professors who taught thousands of students to work their way up to graduation to become future engineers and doctors in this country to build and cure citizens. I know of many researchers and doctors and nurses who came to this country who joined workforce soon after arrival and became tax payers. I know of many came as students and stayed on and later joined workforce and became tax payers for decades and positive contributors to this country. Why you concentrate only on a minority unsuccessful ones (or not as successful) who are doctors and for the first few years they have to drive taxis. Btw, taxi drivers are paying taxes too which pays for Canadian healthcare and else. Argus, Based on many released statistics by government agency immigrants have higher education than Canadian born so this is my evidence not to mention that I have met lots of immigrants in my life. Argus, Based on what you say it was okay then for your ancestors to come here since they were of English origin but now that some may come from non-English culture or because they wear hejab and look different then they must not have the rights to be here or enjoy equal rights right? Next time you walk on street try to look at the good rather than evil. See the beauty of diverse faces (especially females ones lol) and next time you go to a Chinese, Mexican, Spanish, Greek, Lebanese restaurants, praise the lord for this multicultural country to have such diverse food in this country and praise the mix marriages and the beautiful children who come out of these mixed marriages. Look at the GOOD rather than the EVIL. Many immigrants HAVE MORALS AND VALUES of their own too so who tells you or why you think that your values and morals is any higher or better than those who are born in other countries?? Is your claim based on the rate of rape/sexual assaults or pornography, adultery, drug use and violent crimes?

Immigration has been positive to Canada. True we can be more selective and enhance the system so that we can pick more of those with best of education and assets and those who are already adopted or adoptable to this culture (which likely means less of those who refuse to give up the hejab) and less of refugees. Also keep the number more reasonable at around 150 to 200,000 annually not to absorb more than we can handle. That said overall immigrants have higher education than Canadian born and many have either directly or indirectly created jobs and contributed to growth in this country economic-wise and/or population-wise. Canadian is about tolerance and acceptance and diversity. Those who oppose immigration based on skin color or race or looks are the ones who are going against the Canadian culture not those who simply wear a hejab. Another important factor that those who oppose immigration are forgetting is that WE ARE ALL IMMIGRANTS either ourselves or our parents/grandparents or ancestors have immigrated to this country (unless you are a native) so what gives you the right to deprive other people of better lives when yourself or your family/ancestors came to this country to better your life???

Yes I think doctor assisted suicide must become legal for those who are terminally ill and suffering from severe pain and wish to end their sufferings and pain. No damn government (the conservative government) or any damn person (Harper or Peter MacKay) or any damn religious figure or religious organization can decide for me when I wish to end my own life if I am suffering from severe pain and decide to do so.

I haven't read all the posts in this thread but few, but as far as I believe, Afghanistan was under a very brutal completely backwards Taliban regime for years with its population suffering enormously especially women beaten, raped, deprived from schools even basic rights as humans and at least initially I was very happy to see the Coalition invasion but later cool off to the idea when I started seeing body bags coming back especially Canadian ones. I said to myself let them take care of their own problems.

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In that case US must pay all they have to the countries they have directly or indirectly destroyed past 70 years like Vietnam, Cambodia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Iran, Chile, Japan,..... you name it. The money is Iran's and belongs to Iranian people to better their lives.

Economy is not the reason to attack the Cons. I don't think we can criticize this government on the economy. They managed the economy pretty well (some members may be shocked me saying this but I try to be fair in my assessments). They avoided a depression in Canada in 2008 by their polities (and of course the rules already in place like having CHMC helped too) unlike US and the rest of the world which went into depression, Canada avoided that. They invested some 50 billion dollars in various projects and then almost balanced the budget less than a decade later. The only reason they will likely broke their promise likely only by a billion on balancing budget is for factors beyond their control like drop in oil prices internationally. We have had good growth and employment with very low inflation under this conservative government. Compare this with 80's and 90's when various governments of different parties completely failed to deliver what they promised. Low growth, higher inflation, persistent high employment. Also credits to Paul Martin, let not forget his big role in making Canada fiscally sound and this conservative government continued that path (though in 2008 they created a big hole to save Canada a depression and that too was out of their control. Economy goes up and down but in my view democracy is very important that once we lose it then it is gone. The manner in which they operated ever since they got a majority was undemocratic. They manipulated and pushed debates on new bill in order to pass undemocratic unpopular bill (bills C36 and C51 are just two examples), their scandals are enormous and I can go on forever. The manner they distributed tax cuts when the wealthy got the biggest and the poor the least was appalling too.

Big Guy is correct. I was able to copy and paste the link to my previous post when I logged on using Google Chrome. Thanks Big Guy. Yes Stuxnet was a cyber attack on Iran's nuclear facilities but unlike the military attack on Iraq's I am not sure Israelis ever admitted that they carried out this attack. They are also believed to be behind assassinations of Iran's nuclear scientists but again I don't think they ever admitted that either.

Yes a big rift is developing between Obama and strong pro-Israeli groups in the US. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/08/world/middleeast/fears-of-lasting-rift-as-obama-battles-pro-israel-group-on-iran.html They stand short of nothing to kill the deal because this time round likely first time ever they didn't get all that they wanted from an American president whose election/reelection depends on the support from these groups and they are angry and lobbying hard to get the deal killed. They should read the two scenarios I described in my previous post and think about what they are doing twice.

I don't think that the opposition did a good job in the debate.

Anyhow this is coming directly from NATIONAL POST today. You can see the full article for yourself. http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/letters-how-big-a-threat-does-iran-pose "Iran is probably the most Westernized of all Islamic States. Life in Iran is likely the most equitable provided you are a Muslim and not a political radical. Elections are held within limits. Compare Iran with other Islamic states our allies the "good guys" Egypt is govern by military dictatorship which has made the most popular political party illegal. Iraq is a failed state. Saudi Arabia is a kingdom in which women lack basic rights. We saved Libya which is now a failed state following Iraq model - without its justification. North America should grow up." No btw I am not the writer Mark Holmes though he is saying above what I have been more or less saying past few days in this thread. My interests are national/international politics and economics apart from my own profession by which I make a living. My assessments come from various sources including many people I have met at various stages of my life at college, university, workplace, travelling abroad, social gatherings,.....etc. of various nationalities including Iranians (as well as other nationals like Eastern Europeans, Greeks, British, British Jews, Americans, Chinese, Lebanese as well as a couple of visiting Israeli nationals). I can tell you that no Iranian wishes an attack on his or her country by anyone so please stop propaganda and falsehood. I found Iranian nationalism strongest of all. They will never collaborate with any foreign power last of all Israel to encourage or trigger an attack on their homeland. Most of them blame the US for their problems now (i.e. The 1953 CIA sponsored military coup) and some even blame the British for the present government. To be fair and honest some of them wished a US military invasion a decade ago but not now as they realized that a ground invasion by any power is impossible and also especially when they witnessed the devastation and disaster on Iraq after American latest invasion. And yes a big majority support the nuclear deal. Just to add humor at the end they hate to be mistaken as Arabs. There is a joke going on that if you mistakenly called an Iranian an Arab then run for your life. Scenario 1 - The deal goes through: What I anticipate is that this deal will bring peace instead of war. Not a single shot will be fired between Iran and anyone over the next 10 years. More moderate governments will come to power in Iran. Europe (now) and US and Canada (in 5 to 10 years) will have relations and embassies and trades. Both sides win and Israel will be in no danger. Scenario 2 - The deal is rejected: Without this deal war will break out. US (lobbied by strong Zionist groups) will attack Iran likely with some Israeli help. Iran will retaliate against both by military and other means. Worst of all Canada may be dragged into the war (like they did in Afghanistan) and very sadly Canadians may die too. Many thousands of civilians on Iran and Israel side will die more so on Iran's side. Iran's hardliners will push out the moderates and will take over. Attacks on Israel borders will increase tenfold. Iran will also seriously pursue nuclear weapons and will race to build A bombs after an attack by any possible means and will become a nuclear power in a short time after such attack. What would happen afterwards I hate to speculate or worse write about. Lets support negotiations and peace to war and mongering is my slogan.

Please don't invent history. Israel never dared to attack Iran's nuclear facilities or anywhere else in Iran though has been threatening to do so for decades. Israel attacked Iraq and Syria's nuclear facilities. Babylon operation was the Israeli attack on Iraq's nuclear facilities in 1981 not Iran's!!!. It is easy to mistake Iran and Iraq because of similar spelling but there are completely two different countries with different history and culture. Iraq speaks Arabic and the nation (apart from the Kurds in the north) is of Semitic origin (Arab), whereas Iran was the empire of Aryan origin and speaks Persian and 3 times the size and population of Iraq with different customs and traditions to other middle eastern countries. Though Iraq is rich in oil right next to Iran but Iran has both rich human and natural resources and its industries and society are both more developed and advanced.