Outside of Alberta, Canada is cheap

[geoffrey]

http://www.canada.com/topics/finance/story...5e5a78c&k=74069

Good article. Most Canadian's seem to think the government should do nearly everything, and therefore are among the lowest contributors to charity, even lower than those socialist Europeans! Quebecois are especially horrible at donating.

Alberta - $500/yr

Quebec - $176/yr

Both are equally ridiculously low.

The average American gives $900/yr.

So why is Alberta so distinctly different than the RoC? Why are we all so far behind the Americans in being charitable?

[Riverwind]

So why is Alberta so distinctly different than the RoC? Why are we all so far behind the Americans in being charitable?

We have been over this before in another thread. The stats you quote include donations to churches which are not really charities in the way you would like to claim because of the money goes to pay for the upkeep of suburban social clubs. I don't have a link handy but the stats Canada report indicates that donations to churches make up nearly 40% of all charitable giving in Canada.

Furthermore, there are a lot of people swimming in easy money in Alberta due to the oil boom so it is not surprising that they would give away some of their lottery winnings. Most people would do the same no matter where they lived.

[geoffrey]

Whether the money goes to Churches or not, it doesn't matter. It's a 250% higher donation rate. We aren't talking about splitting hairs here. There are Churches in Quebec and in Alberta.

Albertans also don't make 250% more than everyone else. The study also shows that generally richer people donate less so that's not even a valid point in this case.

[Riverwind]

Whether the money goes to Churches or not, it doesn't matter. It's a 250% higher donation rate. We aren't talking about splitting hairs here. There are Churches in Quebec and in Alberta.

No but Albertans are certainly bigger church goers than Quebequers who have largely abandoned organized religion. If you want to call suburban churches charitable donations then you should call any social club a charity.

Albertans also don't make 250% more than everyone else. The study also shows that generally richer people donate less so that's not even a valid point in this case.

You are mis-using statistics - donations are not quoted as a percentage of income - they are quoted as absolute dollars. Albertans have received huge windfall as a result of the oil boom. Many people have received large increases in income or bonuses - not to mention Ralph bucks. This sudden increase in income will lead to more generosity. Take away the free oil money and I am pretty sure that donations in Alberta would be close to the Canadian norm.

[jdobbin]

There's lot of ways to measure charitable contributions.

Manitoba has the higher proportion of givers, Alberta makes the bigger cash contributions.

I don't know why Quebec's rates of giving is lower. It might be the level of public service.

Similarly, Canada might have lower than the the U.S. as well because public service.

I always try to give each year.

Just out of curiosity, what charities do people give to?

[Charles Anthony]

Just out of curiosity, what charities do people give to?

I donate the most to Revenue Canada.

[seabee]

Does the survey take into account donating time?

In Québec, disposable income is lower than in the ROC. But volunteers seem to be (no, I don't have numbers to prove it) rather frequent, possiblly more than in the ROC.

Also, there are many situations where people do make donation (to the homeless beggar, for example) for which there is no paper trail.

The survey probably gives a very incomplete picture.

But I agree that we all should be far more generous.

[August1991]

I agree with Riverwind. Tithes are common in the US (and perhaps Alberta). This measure of donation is strongly influenced by church contributions.

The statistics simply show that Americans or Albertans go to church more often than Canadians or Quebecers.

I have no problem with that. But Quebec did not have a Ministry of Education until 1964 since public instruction was deemed to be a church question. Things have changed since then.

[jdobbin]

I donate the most to Revenue Canada.

Thank you. I'll try not to blow your donation on beer and popcorn.

[Charles Anthony]

Thank you. I'll try not to blow your donation on beer and popcorn.

I never gave it to YOU.

Do you feel a sense of entitlement?

[geoffrey]

Just out of curiosity, what charities do people give to?

I donate the most to Revenue Canada.

So very true.

I personally support the United Way as I think they do a great job with dispersing funds to really great groups. I think that giving kids the chance to experience life outside of poverty is the best way to encourage them not to live in poverty. Once someone has something, they'll fight for it to have it back. I select the little 'disadvantaged youth' targetted donation box on my donation form. We do them at the office and the company matches.

I'm also a victim (victim in the most positive sense) of the little niche donations where my dollars go alot less far, but it's a more noticeable impact. Toy Mountain is one example, you've got to put a gift in there, despite that the cost of the one gift would fund medicine for five or six Africans for a couple months. But it's really tough not to help those people out, I can't imagine a Christmas without presents? I wouldn't want any kid to have to go to school and have to tell their friends that they got nothing from Santa. It's heartbreaking really.

I have very little sympathy for adults in poverty, I think Canada right now is a country with endless opportunity (though much less than most of the OECD, compared to Malawi, we are doing good).... if your not working, you chose to do that by your own accord. The trouble is with kids. If they have irresponsible parents or are caught in a complex situation, why should they suffer? A little six year old or what have you doesn't deserve that. These are people will need to encourage, preventing them from becoming gangsters and leading them to being rags to riches success stories... at least success on their own terms.

[Charles Anthony]

Toy Mountain is one example, you've got to put a gift in there, despite that the cost of the one gift would fund medicine for five or six Africans for a couple months.

I find Toy Mountain peculiar because there is an over OVER abundance of toys in all of the used (Salvation Army, Goodwill, Value Village, etc.) stores.

New toys are not necessary. I grew up with used, second-hand and charity toys. We had more than we needed.

I can't imagine a Christmas without presents?

With all due respect, I honestly think that is too bad for you.

My most memorable Christmas (and truly one of the few that I can recall) was one in which we each got a box of coconut-cream chocolates, an orange and a handful of walnuts and pecans. It was only years later that my oldest sister explained how truly desperate my parents were financially at the time. To this very day, my eyes well up each time I think back. I doubt that I will ever appreciate how heartbreaking that Christmas must have been for my parents.

Toy Mountain only accepts brand-new still-sealed toys.

[geoffrey]

I can't imagine a Christmas without presents?

With all due respect, I honestly think that is too bad for you.

I do agree CA, I've never had to really do without, so it's hard for me to imagine what others go through. I come from a rather privledged upbringing, never were super rich... I still went to public school... but I've never gone hungry or didn't have Christmas/birthday presents. I'm likely a shallower, more materialistic person because of it.

I think it's just devasting to think that a child could see that. Maybe it makes people stronger, a year possibly. But if it's a consistant occurance for the kid, they lose sight that their life can be better and later on follow the same path as their parents. If you give them a taste of success, I truly believe they will chase it.

You can't be successful in school if your worried about kids teasing you because you wear many generations old clothes or don't eat a proper lunch in my opinion (actually a reason why I strongly believe in school uniforms and lunch programs). Maybe that's my background speaking, but I can't imagine someone finding it enjoyable to go to school while being teased or bullied. If you don't enjoy school, your not going to try, your going to quit and your going to suffer for it. It's not good.

The cycle of poverty is a real thing.

Success isn't always material though. I saw on the CBC a program about bringing team sports to aboriginal communities... so that the kids could experience success from a team effort. It was highly successful in increasing self-esteem and ambition of these kids. Where they used to say they had nothing special about them and few had future goals... they now have great ambition and self-worth.

Anything really to provide hope and foster ambition I believe is the most worthwhile investment that anyone could make.

[Who's Doing What?]

The charities I donate to:

Police Retirees of Ontario (I buy 2 tickets to send two children to see the circus every year.)

Canadian Cancer Society

Salvation Army

Alzheimers (clothing drive)

But my biggest donations are to my local food bank.

[crazymf]

I thought income tax was supposed to be a temporary fix after WW2 to get the country going again?

It would seem to me then that our long lived income tax must be the most charitable donation to the government that we must all endure, except indians.

[jdobbin]

I never gave it to YOU.

Do you feel a sense of entitlement?

Of course.

I'll try to think of you as a grumpy Santa.

[jdobbin]

I personally support the United Way as I think they do a great job with dispersing funds to really great groups. I think that giving kids the chance to experience life outside of poverty is the best way to encourage them not to live in poverty. Once someone has something, they'll fight for it to have it back. I select the little 'disadvantaged youth' targetted donation box on my donation form. We do them at the office and the company matches.

We also give to United Way. Throughout the year, we also give to several other charities as well as a family foundation that will give money away in perpetuity.

[jdobbin]

The charities I donate to:

Police Retirees of Ontario (I buy 2 tickets to send two children to see the circus every year.)

Canadian Cancer Society

Salvation Army

Alzheimers (clothing drive)

But my biggest donations are to my local food bank.

All good charities.

Ah, I forgot about the food bank. I do that myself.

[Figleaf]

Whether the money goes to Churches or not, it doesn't matter.

Yes it does. If the church uses in for programs targetted mainly for its own parishioners then they are just giving their donations to themselves.

[geoffrey]

Whether the money goes to Churches or not, it doesn't matter.

Yes it does. If the church uses in for programs targetted mainly for its own parishioners then they are just giving their donations to themselves.

Wrong. The homeless shelter only provides to it's followers, the homeless. I am not a target group of the homeless shelter and I get nothing from it.

Churches can be important in taking a huge load off the strained public conselling area. In times of family crisis (death, other situations), often Churches take a lead role in providing care for their congregation.

All donations are inherently targetted. I don't donate money to see Bill Gates get a split of it.

[Riverwind]

Churches can be important in taking a huge load off the strained public conselling area. In times of family crisis (death, other situations), often Churches take a lead role in providing care for their congregation.

So do friends and extended family members. Most churches are social clubs - nothing more. They can only be called self funded non-profit groups like the Kinmen, Lions or the Shriners. Churches are only classed as charties for historical reasons. I am not calling for a change to the tax code at this time, however, this fact means you cannot use charitable donations as a measure of generosity unless you exclude donations to churches.

That said, there are some churches like the Salvation Army which spend a lot of their resources on true charity work so my comments do not apply to them.

[B. Max]

I thought income tax was supposed to be a temporary fix after WW2 to get the country going again?

It would seem to me then that our long lived income tax must be the most charitable donation to the government that we must all endure, except indians.

Income tax came into being as a way to pay for the WW1.

[Curiouscanuck]

Churches can be important in taking a huge load off the strained public conselling area. In times of family crisis (death, other situations), often Churches take a lead role in providing care for their congregation.

Most churches are social clubs - nothing more.

I disagree that most churches are solely social clubs. But if they are I have found numerous sources that what their existence (even if solely as social clubs)means for participants. These social clubs are for numerous reasons extremely beneficial to society. Some of the benefits include higher education, better health, lower crime rates and higher satisfaction of life. The first link supports this statement.

http://www.heritage.org/Research/Religion/bg1992.cfm

Here is one related to teens.

http://familyfacts.org/topten/topten_0612.cfm

Given that entrance into a church is free, and paid for members who donate, stopping or preventing donations that cause a decline of the number of churches and participants can be stated as being worse for society.

[White Doors]

I grew up in the United Church. Surely your typical 'sub-urban' church as some like to call it.

Right on the donation form you can choose where your donation goes. There was one for International and the minister would talk about what water well they were building in Africa, One for local help and one to pay for church upkeep. There is nothing wrong with including donations to churches in tracking charitable donations. In fact, the vast majority of churches pass along more of the donations than many typical charities do, due to much lower administration costs.

In the same manner of thinking if we are to get rid of churches having a charitable tax status so must we do the same with Unicef.

[Riverwind]

These social clubs are for numerous reasons extremely beneficial to society. Some of the benefits include higher education, better health, lower crime rates and higher satisfaction of life.

This thread is not about whether churches do something to deserve some special treatment under the tax code. This thread is about whether they are really charities. Clubs like the Kinsmen, Lions Club or the Shriners all make similar contributions to society yet they are not called charities unless the organize a specific project with charitable objectives like building low income housing. The money that goes to pay for the upkeep of suburban club-houses and paying staff who speed 90% of their time working with club members is not a charitable donation.