Liberal contenders slam Harper for 'anti-Israeli' accusation

[jbg]

But Israel is well-known for prosecuting their own war crimes.

I guess this confirms something I've wondered. There are simply NO limits on the ludicrous nonsense Israel's apologists will propagate.

If proven, it will be dealt with, against the offending soldiers, harshly.

The offending soldiers, eh? What about the offending regime?

I don't care to repeat myself. Click this for my response, since you can't be troubled to scroll up.

[Figleaf]

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Edited July 22, 2007 by Figleaf

[jbg]

I've read the thread, and your 'responses' are non-responsive. Certain violations of human rights and types of war crimes are admitted policies of the Israel government, so claims that they prosecute them are so partial as to be nonsense.

I guess we prefer tyrannies to imperfect democracies that have to protect themselves against barbarians that barely meet the definition of human.

Remember, the Calgary Stampede involves cattle; the Hajj Stampede involves people bellowing and hoofing each other to death.

[Figleaf]

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Edited July 22, 2007 by Figleaf

[jdobbin]

And what meaning are we supposed to derive from this bizzarre digression?

It is an anti-Islam rant. Millions of pilgrims go to the Mecca every year.

It is a logistical nightmare in an unforgiving climate and most years is carried out peacfully. It may look strange but then so is bobbing and bowing in front of a wall with a long beard and prayer book.

[jbg]

It is an anti-Islam rant. Millions of pilgrims go to the Mecca every year.

I'd have nothing against Islam if they didn't want us dead or enslaved.

It is a logistical nightmare in an unforgiving climate and most years is carried out peacfully. It may look strange but then so is bobbing and bowing in front of a wall with a long beard and prayer book.

I do not have a long beard. Prayer books are portable and, if I went to Israel might well pray at the Western Wall with one. Those activities are not lethal. The almost annual stampedes at Mecca are.

[sharkman]

And what meaning are we supposed to derive from this bizzarre digression?

It is an anti-Islam rant. Millions of pilgrims go to the Mecca every year.

It is a logistical nightmare in an unforgiving climate and most years is carried out peacfully. It may look strange but then so is bobbing and bowing in front of a wall with a long beard and prayer book.

Hah, this is rich. You protest some comments as an anti-Islam rant and then post some anti-Jewish ones. Hypocrite.

[Figleaf]

[qu

Edited July 22, 2007 by Figleaf

[jdobbin]

Hah, this is rich. You protest some comments as an anti-Islam rant and then post some anti-Jewish ones. Hypocrite.

Hardly anti-Jewish. I said that different religious customs appear strange to those that aren't familiar with them.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Hardly anti-Jewish. I said that different religious customs appear strange to those that aren't familiar with them.

So if somebody takes issue with a Muslim custom they are automatically anti-Muslim, but you are merely pointing out how strange a certain Jewish custom appears? What is the basis for the double-standard?

[jdobbin]

I'd have nothing against Islam if they didn't want us dead or enslaved.

I do not have a long beard. Prayer books are portable and, if I went to Israel might well pray at the Western Wall with one. Those activities are not lethal. The almost annual stampedes at Mecca are.

Millions of Muslims live in peace with each other and with non-Muslims. They hardly want you dead or enslaved.

Millions of Muslims travel in pilgrimage to Mecca at the same time of year. The Wailing Wall is open all year round and doesn't attract pilgrims in any number close to Mecca.

A stampede is an issue of crowd control not religious intolerance. Your argument on stampedes of people could apply to any major sporting event, concert or crowded building that has a fire. The U.S. has a stampede every other year where people get killed. Cincinatti, The Great White concert, the Las Vegas fire...

[jbg]

A stampede is an issue of crowd control not religious intolerance. Your argument on stampedes of people could apply to any major sporting event, concert or crowded building that has a fire. The U.S. has a stampede every other year where people get killed. Cincinatti, The Great White concert, the Las Vegas fire...

There are not 100's of deaths at US stampedes. There were recently 29 deaths in a Pakistani stampede as a routine service was letting out. Some little girl tripped in the doorway, triggering the stampede.

Something more fundamental is at work and it's not a reality you enjoy knowing.

[jdobbin]

There are not 100's of deaths at US stampedes. There were recently 29 deaths in a Pakistani stampede as a routine service was letting out. Some little girl tripped in the doorway, triggering the stampede.

Something more fundamental is at work and it's not a reality you enjoy knowing.

Wasn't the Great White Stampede a hundred people? There's a reality for you.

[betsy]

Muslims believe that all Jews must die!

Jews do not think the same of Muslims.

So trying to justify or muddle the reasons behind this little debate by comparison is nonsense. There is no comparison.

I don't care how people worship. They can dance nude in the moonlight and braying at the moon for all I care. But I do take sides when someone talk of genocide.

If it comes to choice....and God forbid, there should ever be any genocide at all...then I'd rather it happen to people with evil religious beliefs!

To those who wish to kill others simply for the fact that they've been preached...and they believe that a certain race should not be allowed to live at all.

And then I'd borrow Iggy's famous phrase...and perhaps..."I wouldn't lose any sleep over it."

[jdobbin]

Muslims believe that all Jews must die!

If it comes to choice....and God forbid, there should ever be any genocide at all...then I'd rather it happen to people with evil religious beliefs!

I don't believe even jbg believes all Muslims want to kill Jews. Nor do most people believe that any religion other than Christianity is evil.

[betsy]

I don't believe even jbg believes all Muslims want to kill Jews. Nor do most people believe that any religion other than Christianity is evil.

Then I guess it all boils down to individual translation of what is considered "evil."

Just like how there are individual interpretation of "fairness." And this goes back to the topic.

I would like to hope that most Canadians have a clear view of what it is. Harper only vocalized what some of us had been observing all along.

[jdobbin]

Then I guess it all boils down to individual translation of what is considered "evil."

Just like how there are individual interpretation of "fairness." And this goes back to the topic.

I would like to hope that most Canadians have a clear view of what it is. Harper only vocalized what some of us had been observing all along.

Do you know any Muslims? I know a few and they don't seem to want Jewish people dead. I think there are definitely extremists out there but I don't think there is anywhere near a majority who want Jews or Christians dead.

[newbie]

Muslims believe that all Jews must die!

If that's true Betsy, show me on these muslim sites where that is indicated.:

http://www.macnet.ca/national/index.php

http://www.cmcla.org

http://www.icna.org

http://isna.com

Please do us all a favor and stop the generalization. Yes, there are radicals muslims that believe some crazy things, just as there are crazy and zealous Christians, Jews, and other religion fundamentalists. Your irrational conclusion does more harm than good.

[jbg]

I don't believe even jbg believes all Muslims want to kill Jews. Nor do most people believe that any religion other than Christianity is evil.

You're quite correct. I am, however, extremely distressed that so-called "peaceful Islam" does not vocally, repeatedly and most important publicly denounce the "crazies". there are rote denunciations around the time of an atrocity such as 9/11 but these are always couched in opposition to "terrorism in all its forms" (a code word for the IDF's activities).

[jdobbin]

You're quite correct. I am, however, extremely distressed that so-called "peaceful Islam" does not vocally, repeatedly and most important publicly denounce the "crazies". there are rote denunciations around the time of an atrocity such as 9/11 but these are always couched in opposition to "terrorism in all its forms" (a code word for the IDF's activities).

A lot of the Muslims I know are white converts or Asian Muslims. Their interest in Israel is scant at best. Some of them have lived in Canada for a few generations. They have been critical of extremists acting in the name of their faith but the community here is very small, I don't know that there is a central spokesman for Muslims.

In Toronto, it was Muslims who informed on the young men who planned on attacks in Ontario.

[WestViking]

Muslims believe that all Jews must die!

If it comes to choice....and God forbid, there should ever be any genocide at all...then I'd rather it happen to people with evil religious beliefs!

I don't believe even jbg believes all Muslims want to kill Jews. Nor do most people believe that any religion other than Christianity is evil.

What all Muslims think is irrelevant to the situation that Israel faces. The Muslim terrorist group Fattah while under Arafat's rule, the Muslim terrorist group Hamas and the Muslim terrorist group Hezbollah have all tried their best to kill as many Jews as they can. Fattah, Hamas and Hezbollah have been and are supported by Arab nations in the Middle East. Iran and Syria are overt supporters of Hezbollah, for example.

Most Middle East Arab states are populated by Arabic tribes who mistrust one another and live together peacefully only under virtual dictatorships that rule with military and police force and might. Iraqi tribes, aided and abetted by imported terrorists, have seized the opportunity to settle old scores rather than trying to rebuild a nation. Each tribe demands security from its interim government while feeling free to lay waste to members of other local tribes.

The one thing that seems to get Middle East Arabs to work together even briefly is to foment hatred of Israel and Jews while dreaming of one day eliminating the Jewish state altogether and forcing any Jew who does not instantly convert to Islam into the sea. In the meantime covert attacks on Israel continue. The concept of Middle Eastern Muslims as peaceful people is not supported by the history of the region or by current events.

[jbg]

The one thing that seems to get Middle East Arabs to work together even briefly is to foment hatred of Israel and Jews while dreaming of one day eliminating the Jewish state altogether and forcing any Jew who does not instantly convert to Islam into the sea. In the meantime covert attacks on Israel continue. The concept of Middle Eastern Muslims as peaceful people is not supported by the history of the region or by current events.

If one believes, as I do, that the Old Testament is pretty good oral history, this way of life preceded Islam. Also preceding Islam (and imported into it) were child sacrifice (now updated as "jihad"), pedophilia, homosexuality and bestiality (remember Sodom and Gomorrah, and the fact that many Muslim men prefer the company of young boys), and near-constant intrigue and warfare.

[gerryhatrick]

Muslims believe that all Jews must die!

That is a stunningly ignorant and slanderous statement.

Do you have any idea how many Muslims live on this planet? I know several Muslims, and they have NEVER expressed anything even close to what you accuse them of.

You have a nasty habit of attacking Muslims with pure bigotry.

[cybercoma]

That is a stunningly ignorant and slanderous statement.

Do you have any idea how many Muslims live on this planet? I know several Muslims, and they have NEVER expressed anything even close to what you accuse them of.

You have a nasty habit of attacking Muslims with pure bigotry.

And you have a habit of insulting the good natured Muslims on this planet by trying to paint the Islamofascists in the middle east as being the same.

[jdobbin]

If one believes, as I do, that the Old Testament is pretty good oral history, this way of life preceded Islam. Also preceding Islam (and imported into it) were child sacrifice (now updated as "jihad"), pedophilia, homosexuality and bestiality (remember Sodom and Gomorrah, and the fact that many Muslim men prefer the company of young boys), and near-constant intrigue and warfare.

The Israeli President is accused of rape.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/10/15/...rape/index.html