Chretien recovering from quadruple bypass today in Montreal.

[mikedavid00]

What is the waiting list for a major heart incident in Alberta? It is one to three days in Manitoba. Heart attacks and heart incidents are done the same day usually.

http://www.gov.mb.ca/health/waitlist/surgical/heart.html

Do you think one day in Quebec was special treatment for urgent care?

Nice Cherry picking.

Here are the Ontario Wait times:

Bypass Surgery

Provincial Target 182 days

Service Area Pan-Canadian Benchmarks Announced

Dec 12, 2005 Ontario's targets (in weeks) Announced Today

Cataract Surgery 16 weeks for patients at risk (which correlates with Ontario's PIII priority rating) Priority I: Immediate

Priority II: 6 weeks

Priority III: 12 weeks

Priority IV: 26 weeks

There is no 3 day stuff at all for bypass surgery. I cringe to think what Quebec gets.

[Guest American Woman]

Reading through this thread, I was curious as to what the statistics in Canada are regarding deaths from heart attacsks. I read how long some say the wait time is for bypass surgery and think the death rate must be high then; yet the average life expectancy in Canada is higher than it is here in the States, where supposidly it's so much better because we supposidly don't have wait times. Anyway, this is what I found:

The countries with the highest death rates from heart disease are the Soviet Union, Romania, Poland, Bulgaria, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia. The countries with the lowest are Japan, France, Spain, Switzerland, and Canada.

Link

So Canada must be doing something right.

[guyser]

Nice Cherry picking.

Here are the Ontario Wait times:

Bypass Surgery

Provincial Target 182 days

Service Area Pan-Canadian Benchmarks Announced

Dec 12, 2005 Ontario's targets (in weeks) Announced Today

Cataract Surgery 16 weeks for patients at risk (which correlates with Ontario's PIII priority rating) Priority I: Immediate

Priority II: 6 weeks

Priority III: 12 weeks

Priority IV: 26 weeks

There is no 3 day stuff at all for bypass surgery. I cringe to think what Quebec gets.

Damn dude still stuck on stu,,,never mind

Lets see, 182 days divided by 7 equals 26 weeks. Ahh, but that is level IV.

Level I is immediate.

Ohhh,...wrong again.

Geez, what did you say again?Let me quote

There is no 3 day stuff at all for bypass surgery

Yup, immediate, no waiting three days.

Sucks when reading comprehension is poor.Hell , I know tons of immigrants that would not make that mistake.

[mikedavid00]

Damn dude still stuck on stu,,,never mind

Lets see, 182 days divided by 7 equals 26 weeks. Ahh, but that is level IV.

Level I is immediate.

Ohhh,...wrong again.

Geez, what did you say again?Let me quote

Yup, immediate, no waiting three days.

Sucks when reading comprehension is poor.Hell , I know tons of immigrants that would not make that mistake.

"Yeah I get chest pains sometimes"

"Really? You should get that checked out. Come by the hospital"

Does that sound like an emergancy to you???

NO. It sounds like a 26 week wait to me!

[Visionseeker]

Ok UPDATE!

Supposedly this was innitiated with his cartiac speciallist friend when he mentioned he had chest pains SOMETIMES. He meantioned this to him

WHEN PLAYING GOLF.

This isn't looking good. I hope there are some reporters that are digging deep in this. He does't seem to be in any emergancy condition and gets QUADRUPLE bypass in less than 48 hours????

You're the one who doesn't look good here because you are trying to make a false issue out of another's misery.

[bush_cheney2004]

....So Canada must be doing something right.

Sometimes yes...sometimes no. Compared to the US, Canada is slower to revascularize and requires more serious symptoms before acting with more invasive procedures. Here are typical studies:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?c...t_uids=11078265

http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/ab...2671.06167.91v1

[Visionseeker]

Nice Cherry picking.

Here are the Ontario Wait times:

Bypass Surgery

Provincial Target 182 days

Service Area Pan-Canadian Benchmarks Announced

Dec 12, 2005 Ontario's targets (in weeks) Announced Today

Cataract Surgery 16 weeks for patients at risk (which correlates with Ontario's PIII priority rating) Priority I: Immediate

Priority II: 6 weeks

Priority III: 12 weeks

Priority IV: 26 weeks

There is no 3 day stuff at all for bypass surgery. I cringe to think what Quebec gets.

Let me put an end to your BS parade.

Cardiac Care Network of Ontario Cardiac Surgery Statistics (May-July 2007)

The chart clearly indicates that the median for emergency and urgent procedures in Ontario is 3 days.

Then again, I suppose you'll suggest that the Cardiac Care Network of Ontario is some kind of subversive immigrant society.

You have no credibility here mikedavid00, none.

[mikedavid00]

Let me put an end to your BS parade.

Cardiac Care Network of Ontario Cardiac Surgery Statistics (May-July 2007)

The chart clearly indicates that the median for emergency and urgent procedures in Ontario is 3 days.

Then again, I suppose you'll suggest that the Cardiac Care Network of Ontario is some kind of subversive immigrant society.

You have no credibility here mikedavid00, none.

You did not read my quote I guess.

I am not disputing emergency treatment, I am disputing that he had a medical emergancy. That's what I am disputing.

I personally do not believe that many Canadians would have the surgery less than 48 hours after mentioning to a dr that you somtimes get chest pains. That seems it would be elective if it happened to any of us.

I'm just not buying it.

Actually a guy I worked with, his old ailing father from Pakistan went for a walk and came back with chest pains and had to be taken to the hospital where they wated almost all night for him to see somewhere. He never got any care or any surgery. He looked to be overweight and in very poor healtch and i'm sure he could have used a triple bypass himself. A good portion of all seniors need this surgery and have to wait.

But something is fishy in Chretiens case. I just don't beleive he was under a medical emergancy situation> The cards don't stack up right and I highly doubt that things would have played out for us the same way.

[Visionseeker]

You did not read my quote I guess.

I am not disputing emergency treatment, I am disputing that he had a medical emergancy. That's what I am disputing.

I personally do not believe that many Canadians would have the surgery less than 48 hours after mentioning to a dr that you somtimes get chest pains. That seems it would be elective if it happened to any of us.

I'm just not buying it.

Actually a guy I worked with, his old ailing father from Pakistan went for a walk and came back with chest pains and had to be taken to the hospital where they wated almost all night for him to see somewhere. He never got any care or any surgery. He looked to be overweight and in very poor healtch and i'm sure he could have used a triple bypass himself. A good portion of all seniors need this surgery and have to wait.

But something is fishy in Chretiens case. I just don't beleive he was under a medical emergancy situation> The cards don't stack up right and I highly doubt that things would have played out for us the same way.

Chrétien had a quad done! That outcome is urgent/emergency under any circumstances or any walk of life.

You can have a bypass

You can have a double bypass

You can have a triple bypass

and you can have a quadruple bypass

beyond that, you need a new heart.

If you go to any emergency complaining of chest pains in Canada, the US or any advanced medical facility outside of North America, your condition will be reviewed using almost identical protocols. If the tests come back that you're a quad, it's wheel'em in and scrub-up time.

[jennie]

You did not read my quote I guess.

I am not disputing emergency treatment, I am disputing that he had a medical emergancy. That's what I am disputing.

I personally do not believe that many Canadians would have the surgery less than 48 hours after mentioning to a dr that you somtimes get chest pains. That seems it would be elective if it happened to any of us.

I'm just not buying it.

Actually a guy I worked with, his old ailing father from Pakistan went for a walk and came back with chest pains and had to be taken to the hospital where they wated almost all night for him to see somewhere. He never got any care or any surgery. He looked to be overweight and in very poor healtch and i'm sure he could have used a triple bypass himself. A good portion of all seniors need this surgery and have to wait.

But something is fishy in Chretiens case. I just don't beleive he was under a medical emergancy situation> The cards don't stack up right and I highly doubt that things would have played out for us the same way.

mikedavid, you are flogging an interesting hypothesis already found wanting. He had unstable angina chest pains the next morning.

Try to keep up with the facts.

[M.Dancer]

cite: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2007/10/03/...en-surgery.html

-Chretien known to be in very good health.

-Monday says he might be having chest pains.

-Consults a FRIEND of his in Monteal to look him over with no waiting times.

-Update! - Speaks to this friend while PLAYING A GAME OF GOLF!

-The Chief of surgery does his operation in less than 48 hours.

3 years ago my friend had a quad after less than 24 hours wait.Mind you, this was Toronto and we have the power.........

[jdobbin]

Nice Cherry picking.

I was quoting Manitoba figures. I have no idea what Quebec and Ontario's are. That's why I was asking what the figures were for Quebec.

[margrace]

Ok UPDATE!

Supposedly this was innitiated with his cartiac speciallist friend when he mentioned he had chest pains SOMETIMES. He meantioned this to him

WHEN PLAYING GOLF.

This isn't looking good. I hope there are some reporters that are digging deep in this. He does't seem to be in any emergancy condition and gets QUADRUPLE bypass in less than 48 hours????

Other than my son in law seemed to have had a fainting spell, he didn't appear to need immediate attention either but when they investigated further they found he needed an immediate replacement of a valve or he woul shortly be dead. So the heart is something only doctors can assess.

[old_bold&cold]

The fact that Chetien was not brought to the hospital by ambulance or any other emergency means, speaks volumes. Was he in immenent danger of dieing? No one will say for sure. I do know that yes if you need things done there are several way to get it done, and knowing people and how the system works is what can really make me boil. But I have also taken advantage of this or should I say my wifes family has. Her Father neededb a triple bypass and he lived in Gatineau Quebec. He was on a waiting list that was about three to four weeks long. He was hospitalized for this time as he was in high need. Now my wife works for CCHSA who do the accreditations for Hospitals etc, as a graphic artist, and the CEO of there, saw here crying about the possible death of her father while waiting for an operation. This Ceo was a personal friend of Dr Keon, who was one of the worlds best heart surgeons. Needles to say, after that, there was a call to the Gatineau hospital to have my wifes father transferred to the Civil Hospital for an early next morning operation. Dr Keon had made arrangements to be in a few hours early for this and his staff all agreed to do so as well. Now yes this was jumping the que, but it was also not done by making any others wait longer, but it was done because of extra hours being put in by the people. Maybe this was also done with Chretien, as his friend was a heart surgeon. But no one should think that this was normal care given the same as anyone else. Even the most wanton Chretien supportters would not try to make thatpig fly. This was special treatment, and the only question should be, did it make anyone else wait a longer time because of it. Knowing and having friends in not something that is a bad thing.

As I said before I definitely am not a Chretien supportter, and I still would not want to say that his timely operation was not with or without merit, but I am also willing to look at the fact, that it may well be a friend doing a friend a favour, and if no one else was made to wait longer then I will not condemn that action, as well.

[Leafless]

You did not read my quote I guess.

I am not disputing emergency treatment, I am disputing that he had a medical emergancy. That's what I am disputing.

I tend to agree with you.

Emergency heart surgery does Not qualify for chest pain.

But congestive heart failure due to clogged heart arteries does and means the difference between life and death.

By all reports Chretien was not suffering from congestive heart failure.

Edited October 4, 2007 by Leafless

[bk59]

There are some absolutely ridiculous posts in this thread. For all of you complaining about Chretien's medical condition, how many of you are doctors? How many of you are cardiac specialists? Anyone?

Lines like "The fact that Chetien was not brought to the hospital by ambulance or any other emergency means, speaks volumes" are pure gibberish. So now we only treat people who arrive in hospital by particular means of transportation? Mode of transportation has no bearing on whether or not you have a medical emergency.

Other drivel in this thread includes "Chretien didn't seem to be in an emergency becuase he was supposed to have a speaking engagement that he only cancelled the day of the surgery." Of course! How silly of those doctors. They should have realized that if you have prior appointments you must not have a medical emergency. What? He canceled the speech the day BEFORE the surgery? AFTER being diagnosed with this problem on the weekend? It's almost as if that is what anyone would have done after being diagnosed with a serious heart problem.

From the article it seems like he began having problems and asked a friend who happened to be at the same event. A friend who, as a doctor, recognized the danger signs. How exactly is that special treatment? The anecdotal evidence in this thread alone shows that people with emergencies get fast treatment.

If you don't like Chretien's politics, then fine. That's your right. But grasping at straws like this, trying to somehow blame him for having to undergo surgery... that's just stupidity. And for those of you actively wishing him death on here, congratulations for once again proving that the world is full of morons with computers who have nothing better to do than flood the internet with their hatred and nonsense.

[guyser]

I tend to agree with you.

Emergency heart surgery does Not qualify for chest pain.

Hey Doc Leafless , wouldnt chest pains come before the heart surgery.

[guyser]

Wanting to follow your thoughts here, maybe you can clarify?

I do know that yes if you need things done there are several way to get it done, and knowing people and how the system works is what can really make me boil. But I have also taken advantage of this or should I say my wifes family has

But then didnt you have an advantage because....

This Ceo was a personal friend of Dr Keon, who was one of the worlds best heart surgeons. Needles to say, after that, there was a call to the Gatineau hospital to have my wifes father transferred to the Civil Hospital for an early next morning operation. Dr Keon had made arrangements to be in a few hours early for this and his staff all agreed to do so as well. Now yes this was jumping the que, but it was also not done by making any others wait longer,

[old_bold&cold]

Wanting to follow your thoughts here, maybe you can clarify?

But then didnt you have an advantage because....

Do not get me wrong, I am saying this was special treatment. Even though my wife never asked for it, her boss did make the calls and yes her father was afforded very special treatment. But not at the expese of bumping anyone from the list, but because this doctor did a friend a favour and worked the extra time needed to do this.

It is like you have a friend who is a mechanic and is busy all the time and has a waitng list of appointments. But he also has a friend that needs reairs do quickly, so he does it after hours but in the shop, for his friend. No one who had appointments were inconvienced and so they could not raise a stink. This is the same thing but with doctors and hospitals etc.

We do have to realise that operating rooms are not running 24/7 with appointments and that yes there could be many more things done if they were. But we don't have the staff and the money to do this normally. So yes there are times when this can take place. Do you get my point now.

[Fortunata]

Hey Doc Leafless , wouldnt chest pains come before the heart surgery.

My grandmother did not have any chest pains before her surgery. She had trouble breathing yet it was her heart condition; lucky for her the local doctor recognized it for what it was.

[guyser]

Do not get me wrong, I am saying this was special treatment. Even though my wife never asked for it, her boss did make the calls and yes her father was afforded very special treatment. But not at the expese of bumping anyone from the list, but because this doctor did a friend a favour and worked the extra time needed to do this.

But if you benefitted from this relationship, why would it make your blood boil "if" or "should" someone else get the same benefit? That was my only point.

It is really not worth answering to be honest. We all have people we know that can do things for us without the customary wait. I dont get mad when I ask Cops for a list of tickets they have, and they all answer none.

[old_bold&cold]

But if you benefitted from this relationship, why would it make your blood boil "if" or "should" someone else get the same benefit? That was my only point.

It is really not worth answering to be honest. We all have people we know that can do things for us without the customary wait. I dont get mad when I ask Cops for a list of tickets they have, and they all answer none.

What makes my blood boil is when these things do bump others on the waiting list to a later time. Since you are dwelling on just this one aspect. I have seen this happen as well, but it is more covered up, and most will never see it happen. Yes it is good to have friends or contacts, I will never say that it is not good. But just keep those favours you accept, to where you do not hurt another by doing so.

[guyser]

What makes my blood boil is when these things do bump others on the waiting list to a later time.

** But just keep those favours you accept, to where you do not hurt another by doing so.

Fair enough

[Leafless]

My grandmother did not have any chest pains before her surgery. She had trouble breathing yet it was her heart condition; lucky for her the local doctor recognized it for what it was.

It is obvious Sir guyser dies not know what congestive heart failure is.

[old_bold&cold]

Congestive heart failure is when the heart muscle fiber hardens and can no longer function well enough to do the job sufficiently. The cure is a heart transplant, at least now a days it is. In the not so distant past death was the main thing that happened. Many of the older preWWII times they used to call a lot of this consumption, so the early data about this will truly be skewed. If Chretien had congestive heart failure, then it would be interesting to see just where he would land on the transplant list. Even friends in high places should not be able to jump that que, but then again maybe someone would be willing to take that heat. But that is not the case we have today. My views on Chretian have not changed, but yes I can say that his timely operation, if it was done by his surgeon friend and did not bump any one on a waiting list, then it was above board.