Cuba documentary

[myata]

I already posted here on the questionable (from the high morality perspective) attitude of US administrations to Cuba - without being a fan of regime in Havana myself. This CBC documentary may give some further insights into the issue: CBC documentary: 638 ways to kill Castro. Not to mention the general question as to what exactly constitutes terrorism. If Iranian guards are labelled terrorists for alledged involvement in Iraq, what about CIA paying hired guns to kill another country's elected leader?

[Higgly]

I already posted here on the questionable (from the high morality perspective) attitude of US administrations to Cuba - without being a fan of regime in Havana myself. This CBC documentary may give some further insights into the issue: CBC documentary: 638 ways to kill Castro. Not to mention the general question as to what exactly constitutes terrorism. If Iranian guards are labelled terrorists for alledged involvement in Iraq, what about CIA paying hired guns to kill another country's elected leader?

Exactly.

[M.Dancer]

If Iranian guards are labelled terrorists for alledged involvement in Iraq, what about CIA paying hired guns to kill another country's elected leader?

Silly really to pay them. Most would willing do it for free.

Give us the tools, was said, and we will finish the job.

Now ask your self a question, if terrorisms goal is to terrorize the public into submission, how is assassinating a dictator terrorism?

Edited September 25, 2007 by M.Dancer

[lost&outofcontrol]

Definition of a terrorist

[M.Dancer]

Definition of a terrorist

In 2005, Posada was held by U.S. authorities in Texas on the charge of illegal presence on national territory before the charges were dismissed on May 8, 2007. His release on bail on April 19, 2007 had elicited angry reactions from the Cuban and Venezuelan governments.[11] The U.S. Justice Department had urged the court to keep him in jail because he was "an admitted mastermind of terrorist plots and attacks", a flight risk and a danger to the community.[6]

On September 28, 2005 a U.S. immigration judge ruled that Posada cannot be deported because he faced the threat of torture in Venezuela.[12]

Evil Yankees

[lost&outofcontrol]

Evil Yankees

Evil indeed

On May 8, 2007 U.S. district judge Kathleen Cardone dismissed seven counts of immigration fraud and ordered Posada's electronic bracelet removed.[37]

The U.S. Justice Department had urged the court to keep him in jail because he was "an admitted mastermind of terrorist plots and attacks"

The US knows of his involvement in various illegal activities since since the early '60s (the US hired him themselves a few times). Yet he is still a free man more than 40 years later...

Edited September 25, 2007 by lost&outofcontrol

[myata]

Now ask your self a question, if terrorisms goal is to terrorize the public into submission, how is assassinating a dictator terrorism?

Ok, bombing, assassinations, hiring thugs and so on are legitimate methods for the greater good? Just unfortunate smell (look and act) that has to be put up with. Hail, democracy!

[M.Dancer]

Ok, bombing, assassinations, hiring thugs and so on are legitimate methods for the greater good? Just unfortunate smell (look and act) that has to be put up with. Hail, democracy!

Are all those events about killing castro?

I would say any designs on Castro's life are realpolitik,however distasteful and wrong. but not bonafida terrorism.

[M.Dancer]

Evil indeed

On May 8, 2007 U.S. district judge Kathleen Cardone dismissed seven counts of immigration fraud and ordered Posada's electronic bracelet removed.[37]

So democracy and the criminal justice system. Are there any other western institutions you despise?

[Higgly]

Silly really to pay them. Most would willing do it for free.

Give us the tools, was said, and we will finish the job.

Now ask your self a question, if terrorisms goal is to terrorize the public into submission, how is assassinating a dictator terrorism?

Oh you mean like Blackwater?

As for your last line, M.Dancer, I doubt that even you is that obtuse.

[lost&outofcontrol]

So democracy and the criminal justice system. Are there any other western institutions you despise?

Funny how you equate criticisms to hate.

[lost&outofcontrol]

Are all those events about killing castro?

I would say any designs on Castro's life are realpolitik,however distasteful and wrong. but not bonafida terrorism.

I guess you only read the parts of my link that you wanted.

Cubana Flight 455, 1976

All 48 passengers and 25 crew aboard the plane died: 57 Cubans, 11 Guyanese, and five North Koreans.

Tourist bombings of 1997

An Italian, Fabio di Celmo, was killed and 11 people wounded as a result.

[Higgly]

I would say any designs on Castro's life are realpolitik,however distasteful and wrong. but not bonafida terrorism.

I wonder if Al Quaida uses these sorts of justifications? "Don't worry guys. It's not terrorism. It's realpolitik."

Edited September 25, 2007 by Higgly

[lost&outofcontrol]

I wonder if Al Quaida uses these sorts of justifications? "Don't worry guys. It's not terrorism. It's realpolitik."

So convenient is it not M.Dancer?

[M.Dancer]

So convenient is it not M.Dancer?

Yes and accurate too. Surely you can differentiate a car bombed designed and deployed to kill hundreds of civilians and a cigar designed to kill a dictator?

[lost&outofcontrol]

Yes and accurate too. Surely you can differentiate a car bombed designed and deployed to kill hundreds of civilians and a cigar designed to kill a dictator?

Yes I can and if you would of followed my links you would of seen that this man is guilty of both.

[M.Dancer]

Yes I can and if you would of followed my links you would of seen that this man is guilty of both.

Absolutely. But he isn't part of the original post, so his inclusion is tangential and pretty much irrelevant given that he was arrested by the US.

[lost&outofcontrol]

Absolutely. But he isn't part of the original post, so his inclusion is tangential and pretty much irrelevant given that he was arrested by the US.

The original poster said:

[...]the general question as to what exactly constitutes terrorism. If Iranian guards are labelled terrorists for alledged involvement in Iraq, what about CIA paying hired guns to kill another country's elected leader?

Using the definition used by the United States of a terrorist, I think Luis Posada Carriles fits the bill. If the United States employs a know terrorist (they trained him to be one after all) for its own personal use while it runs wild in the middle east looking for another one then how can we trust their judgment. How can we posit any judgment for fact?

[M.Dancer]

He is a terrorist, he was trained by the US but there is no evidence that he was used by the CIA for terrorist activities. His terrorism was his own inititive, in fact.....

Investigators from Cuba, Venezuela and the United States traced the planting of the bombs to two Venezuelan passengers, Freddy Lugo and Hernán Ricardo Lozano. Both men were employed by Posada at his private detective agency based in Venezuela, and they both subsequently admitted to the crime.

A week after the mens' confessions, Luis Posada and Orlando Bosch were arrested on charges of masterminding the attack, and were jailed in Venezuela.[22] Declassified FBI and CIA reports show that the agencies suspected his involvement in the airline bombing within days of its occurrence.[23][24]

The US worked against him.

Posada was paid $3000 per month plus expenses from U.S. Major General Richard Secord, who was directing operations for Oliver North

And here it shown that he is in the pocket of the reagan admin, directed by disgraced marine, North. and later.......]

Though recuperating in Honduras, the FBI believed that Posada was responsible for 41 bombings in the country, Posada himself admitted to planning numerous attacks against Cuba and seeking assistance from the Honduran military to aid his cause, which was not forthcoming

he is still being investigated by the FBI...

and at best....(or worst)

In 1998, The New York Times indicated that, even after the U.S. government no longer sponsored Posada's violent activities, Posada Carriles may have benefited from a tolerant attitude on the part of U.S. law enforceme

[lost&outofcontrol]

He is a terrorist, he was trained by the US but there is no evidence that he was used by the CIA for terrorist activities. His terrorism was his own inititive, in fact.....

You agree that he was in the US government's pocket for 30 or so years and that the US gov. stopped supporting him in 1998.

Why do you think he was hired during the contras period? What do you think the contras did in central America?

[M.Dancer]

You agree that he was in the US government's pocket for 30 or so years and that the US gov. stopped supporting him in 1998.

Why do you think he was hired during the contras period? What do you think the contras did in central America?

I agree that the article in the NYT was in 1998. They stopped before that. And this is relavant again to what?

[lost&outofcontrol]

I agree that the article in the NYT was in 1998. They stopped before that.

The US supported him until at least 1990.

In February 1990 Posada was shot whilst sitting in his car in Guatemala city by unknown assailants that Posada believed were Cuban assassins. In his memoir, Posada said that his recovery and medical bills were paid by the Cuban American National Foundation, with additional payments from Richard Secord.

But the issue of when they stopped supporting him is moot. Why would they support him in the first place? Why would they train someone to be a terrorist. How can we rely on the judgment of such a .gov? If they grew a consciousness overnight and decided that they would not support him anymore why not just arrest him?

And this is relavant again to what?

Watch this:

I already posted here on the questionable (from the high morality perspective) attitude of US administrations to Cuba - [...] Not to mention the general question as to what exactly constitutes terrorism. If Iranian guards are labelled terrorists for alledged involvement in Iraq, what about CIA paying hired guns to kill another country's elected leader?

How can we posit any judgment for fact?

[M.Dancer]

Which is why I'm asking what it has to do with the OP. Any actions by Posada were his own. Not by the US did he blow up planes........

[lost&outofcontrol]

Which is why I'm asking what it has to do with the OP. Any actions by Posada were his own. Not by the US did he blow up planes........

The United states hired Posada not knowing what he would do during the contras period? The United States trained him to be a terrorist not knowing he would go around blowing things up?

Accessory to murder

Edited September 25, 2007 by lost&outofcontrol

[M.Dancer]

The United states hired Posada not knowing what he would do during the contras period? The United States trained him to be a terrorist not knowing he would go around blowing things up?

In Central America, Posada was assigned as deputy to Félix Rodríguez, a CIA operative who had overseen the capture and execution of Ernesto "Che" Guevara in 1967. The pair were to coordinate drops of military supplies to the Contras, a paramilitary collective opposed to the leftist Sandanistas in Nicaragua. Posada was paid $3000 per month plus expenses from U.S. Major General Richard Secord, who was directing operations for Oliver North.[16] The subsequent Iran-Contra investigations cast light over U.S. operations in the region, and several of Posada's connections, including Félix Rodríguez were asked to testify.

Posada remained in El Salvador during the hearings before signing up as a security advisor to the Guatemalan government. He also remained in contact with Cuban exile groups during this period.[16] In February 1990 Posada was shot whilst sitting in his car in Guatemala city by unknown assailants that Posada believed were Cuban assassins. In his memoir, Posada said that his recovery and medical bills were paid by the Cuban American National Foundation, with additional payments from Richard Secord.[26] Though recuperating in Honduras, the FBI believed that Posada was responsible for 41 bombings in the country, Posada himself admitted to planning numerous attacks against Cuba and seeking assistance from the Honduran military to aid his cause, which was not forthcoming

If they knew what he was up to, do you think it would have been necessary for the FBI to investigate him?