GREENS SAY !Legalize and commercialize the Afghan poppy crop!

[shavluk]

http://www.greenparty.ca/en/releases/08.29.2007

Its the right policy I think. No need for dead soldiers.

GREEN? You bet !!

Yes for a return to sane government policy even just by idea suggestions that the other Party's can continue to copy ?

http://www.greenparty.ca/en/policy/documents/P4M

(indepth view)

Also, most people dont realize the media dictates who gets in the news,,, big time.

Press releases go out all the time.

Its sad but true in answer to some of your comments in the other Green thread.

Like this issue still being ignored.

Policy #106 in the Federal GREEN BOOK

(the NDP don't have a book or anything else similar and actually teach in their candidate schools to not even give out any written policy these days)

Sorry, only the Bloc of Quebec and the National GREEN Party has a policy to deal with even this ridiculous issue as well.

I cant vote Bloc here in Vancouver.

The GREENS POLICY # 106

""regulate marijuana under federal legislation as a product similar to alcohol and tobacco""

http://web.greenparty.ca/download/GPC_Platform_2006.pdf

Jack told all of Canada in 2003 he thought cannabis should be dealt with but then he was muzzled instantly and has run from this issue ever since.

Dr Martin of the liberals presented a decrim bill on 4/20/2007 to be I would think probably ignored in the house come oct when these fools go back to work.

Courage it takes! Jack.

Greens will show all how , YES !

Seems even the conservatives have been reading the Green book and I love Harper in all his green ties.

Layton and Dion as well.

I look forward to this next Federal election and I am excited politically for the first time in a very long time.

Who of you here is not afraid to vote GREEN and really change this country?

[jennie]

http://www.greenparty.ca/en/releases/08.29.2007

Who of you here is not afraid to vote GREEN and really change this country?

Not afraid ... just not sure ... I have heard that the farmers and rural seniors are going to the Green Party in droves. All the Tory blue in farm country may be turning green. Their concerns are about Harper and his hidden agenda. They gave him a chance, and he muzzled their representatives, and they will not tolerate that, don't trust him now, so the word is there will be big changes there.

Giving it all plenty of thought ... not decided.

[shavluk]

Not afraid ... just not sure ... I have heard that the farmers and rural seniors are going to the Green Party in droves. All the Tory blue in farm country may be turning green. Their concerns are about Harper and his hidden agenda. They gave him a chance, and he muzzled their representatives, and they will not tolerate that, don't trust him now, so the word is there will be big changes there.

Giving it all plenty of thought ... not decided.

Well I can tell you that now with the party finance situation revamped and each party financed by tax dollars for each vote ,you can really make a political statement in this country for the first time in a way that will actually matter and be heard.

But then I have been at this awhile and if I can help you with any answers please don't hesitate.

Where are you (province)?

[shavluk]

double sorry

Edited September 6, 2007 by shavluk

[jbg]

Somehow, I doubt, even with legalization, that the druglords would be defanged. Sleaze is sleaze.

[kimmy]

While I agree that the current policy is not working, I think this proposal sounds naive.

I just can't get with the idea that poor farmers will participate in a quota system to sell their poppy harvest for legitimate medical uses, when selling to drug producers will bring them higher prices without the hassle of quotas.

As for regulation of marijuana in the same category as alcohol and tobacco, I'm all for it. I doubt the Hell's Angels would ever let that happen, though.

-k

{addendum: I voted Green in the past 2 federal elections. I don't anticipate doing so again. Jim Harris talked about something I believe: people will pollute less if polluting costs money, and behave in a more environmentally friendly manner if doing so makes financial sense. I thought that was worth a vote, especially in my riding where the Conservative candidate had a five-digit margin over his next closest opponent.}

Edited September 7, 2007 by kimmy

[geoffrey]

As for regulation of marijuana in the same category as alcohol and tobacco, I'm all for it. I doubt the Hell's Angels would ever let that happen, though.

Or they'd just sell their own stuff cheaper and cheaper until we have $1/gram government subsidized pot through competition. Do we really want the government driving down drug prices?

Edited September 7, 2007 by geoffrey

[jennie]

Somehow, I doubt, even with legalization, that the druglords would be defanged. Sleaze is sleaze.

The sleaze is the Taliban druglords, true.

The Afghani farmers are just trying to make a living. They would try something else but it isn't possible right now.

Edited September 7, 2007 by jennie

[kimmy]

Or they'd just sell their own stuff cheaper and cheaper until we have $1/gram government subsidized pot through competition. Do we really want the government driving down drug prices?

Why cut your profit margins when it's so much cheaper to just firebomb competing business ventures?

-k

{I'm revoking your patch, Road Dawg. git back on yer mo-ped and make me some money. }

[geoffrey]

Why cut your profit margins when it's so much cheaper to just firebomb competing business ventures?

-k

{I'm revoking your patch, Road Dawg. git back on yer mo-ped and make me some money. }

How are they not all in jail? If we can't keep the Hell's Angels under control in a rule-of-law Western democracy with lots of police, how the hell are we going to control Afghani warlords?

[kimmy]

The Afghani farmers are just trying to make a living.

True.

They would try something else but it isn't possible right now.

This, I'm not sure of.

Even if they had the option of participating in some sort of legal program, it seems likely to me that they'd be taking a pay cut to do so. I suspect that weighing the morality of morphine for African hospitals vs heroin for UK and US junkies is a rather abstract concept for an Afghan farmer who just wants to feed his own family.

I also suspect that the farmers' personal safety might be at risk if they participated in a "Poppies For Medicine" program.

-k

[kimmy]

How are they not all in jail? If we can't keep the Hell's Angels under control in a rule-of-law Western democracy with lots of police, how the hell are we going to control Afghani warlords?

None of them have yet been observed tapping their feet in bathroom stalls.

-k

[August1991]

I take the buttered popcorn approach to these types of questions.

If there's a bowl of popcorn near me, the popcorn tends to disappear.

I'm prepared to sign on and pay someone to keep the popcorn bowl away from me. Marriage is sort of the same, I think.

Edited September 7, 2007 by August1991

[Pliny]

As for regulation of marijuana in the same category as alcohol and tobacco, I'm all for it. I doubt the Hell's Angels would ever let that happen, though.

Or they'd just sell their own stuff cheaper and cheaper until we have $1/gram government subsidized pot through competition. Do we really want the government driving down drug prices?

I don't think most People realize the negative effects of drugs. Of course the government should decriminalize them all so that they could truly experience this and so that users do not have the pressure of "the law" on their backs. They could truly enjoy the indulgence and not have the government to continuously blame for their rough lives.

The ones that like to use them will associate with each other and wonder why they live in ghettos. Perhaps they can appeal to government to help them get off drugs - but I wouldn't support that view. After awhile people might realize the negative effects of drugs on their lives and no longer wish to associate with drugs. But then, they may be happy and content with having nothing but a good hit now and then if that becomes their level of ambition. At least the pressure will be off them. There will be those that will attempt to keep drugs scarce and the demand high and the thus the price high. But the market will usually attempt to undercut the price. Monopolies and cartels would be kind of scary - those are where the real drug wars might occur - heavy competition.

Society, in general, frowns on the use of drugs of any sort in general societal intercourse. If one wishes to interact in society it is generally expected one be sober and aware of his surroundings and the people around him. I don't think a law is necessary to enforce that view. Occasionally, one might wish to celebrate, but he better know himself pretty good and have a sense of purpose and thus know what he should and shouldn't be doing. Some drugs are psycholgically and physiologically damaging. Having a direction in life makes one more conservative and cautious in his choices especially if he has to suffer the consequences of those choices.

Choosing not to use drugs, would be the correct course of action if one wished to improve his percentage of achieving anything substantial in his life.

That some people say they use drugs regularly and live normal lives isn't an argument for drugs. They have a job, are married own a house and have two cars and argue they lead more normal lives than most of their friends and neighbours just doesn't say much for what they consider normal lives.

Oh, by the way - I would never vote Green or NDP. They are most certainly not about liberty.

Edited September 7, 2007 by Pliny

[jennie]

True.

This, I'm not sure of.

Even if they had the option of participating in some sort of legal program, it seems likely to me that they'd be taking a pay cut to do so. I suspect that weighing the morality of morphine for African hospitals vs heroin for UK and US junkies is a rather abstract concept for an Afghan farmer who just wants to feed his own family.

I also suspect that the farmers' personal safety might be at risk if they participated in a "Poppies For Medicine" program.

-k

Well I can't speak for all of the farmers but the one I saw on CTV said he tried growing something else (on a government program) but the taliban blew up his crops. Personal security is definitely an issue. But clearly he would prefer not to be doing business with them if there was another way ... like for medical morphine which we are short of and will need more of as the baby boom ages.

Edited September 7, 2007 by jennie

[margrace]

Somehow, I doubt, even with legalization, that the druglords would be defanged. Sleaze is sleaze.

Isn't this attitude a little like the old story of the people bemoaning the stone that might drop on their village instead of doing anything about it. Doing nothing is just that nothing.

[shavluk]

Well I can't speak for all of the farmers but the one I saw on CTV said he tried growing something else (on a government program) but the taliban blew up his crops. Personal security is definitely an issue. But clearly he would prefer not to be doing business with them if there was another way ... like for medical morphine which we are short of and will need more of as the baby boom ages.

the Taliban are the farmers

the farmers are the Taliban

they are paid less for opium than the legal farmers of turkey are paid for theirs

the Taliban sell the opium at huge markups even to legal pharmaceutical companies

this will happen and people need to realize the world uses and needs tons of the stuff every year

i know this will happen and it will work

everything else is just fear and job creation

yes there will always be bad apples ,,, its still better than poisoning their country just for the 6 o'clock news

anyone who says their book tells them to kill others who don't follow their book should be neutralized period

no other way for us to progress as a race unless we get much smarter, which we will

maybe just as an introduction,,,,, http://enmasse.ca/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6965

read or dont but you wont stop me from my goal

[geoffrey]

Isn't this attitude a little like the old story of the people bemoaning the stone that might drop on their village instead of doing anything about it. Doing nothing is just that nothing.

Jumping off the deep end without knowing if there is water in the pool is equally as foolish yet has much higher consequences.

[gc1765]

Or they'd just sell their own stuff cheaper and cheaper until we have $1/gram government subsidized pot through competition. Do we really want the government driving down drug prices?

Isn't there already competition between dealers? What is there to stop someone from going out and selling pot at $5/gram (as opposed to say $10/gram)?

Edited September 7, 2007 by gc1765

[geoffrey]

Isn't there already competition between dealers? What is there to stop someone from going out and selling pot at $5/gram (as opposed to say $10/gram)?

Why would they? The market is unsaturated with dealers at $10/gram so they won't cut prices.

[jennie]

the Taliban are the farmers

the farmers are the Taliban

they are paid less for opium than the legal farmers of turkey are paid for theirs

anyone who says their book tells them to kill others who don't follow their book should be neutralized period

no other way for us to progress as a race unless we get much smarter, which we will

maybe just as an introduction,,,,, http://enmasse.ca/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6965

read or dont but you wont stop me from my goal

We are fighting the Taliban to protect the farmers and villagers, correct?

The Taliban are not Afghani.

Interesting that they are paid less than for legal medical poppies. So there is a possibility of a legal industry.

l think you insult the Muslim religion, of which you appear to know little. Is that necessary? Are you not inviting religious persecution in return? It bothers me to see any religion denigrated, though I am not religious myself.

[gc1765]

Why would they? The market is unsaturated with dealers at $10/gram so they won't cut prices.

Why do you think Wal-Mart makes billions of dollars? Because they charge the same as everyone else, or because they offer lower prices?

[shavluk]

We are fighting the Taliban to protect the farmers and villagers, correct?

The Taliban are not Afghani.

Interesting that they are paid less than for legal medical poppies. So there is a possibility of a legal industry.

l think you insult the Muslim religion, of which you appear to know little. Is that necessary? Are you not inviting religious persecution in return? It bothers me to see any religion denigrated, though I am not religious myself.

I insult no one.

Quite the opposite actually and that is my point that we continue to do so when we dictate what farmers can grow and sell in countries around the world.

It is grown because of demand,

there isn't a demand because it is grown. think about that one then

6 billion Canada has been spent killing the locals so far. 70 canadain lives probably thousands of afgans

Even by some estimates of the drug income we could have bought all the opium for the next 4 years and removed 4 x 1.5 billion(yearly cost of buying it all) income to the Taliban and still only provide half the opium needed in Africa for the 28 million Aids sufferers.

I guess it just depends on where you would spend the money ,, guns and death or pain relief and honest dollars earned.

I guess I must just be misinformed about what a life is worth at the expense of a bulb from a plant, NOT !

Drugs aren't sold at gun point

Drugs sell because they work

Its not the addicts on the street keeping the drug lords in business

They are never going to just go away no matter how many you make rich pretending to stop them

Think about this then ,

all the security in the world

and yet there has never been a prison built

that they didn't discover drugs in ,,,,,,,

how then are we going to keep the free parts of the country drug free????

32% of your tax's fighting it every year ,,

its insanity

doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results

hey we all get to vote right , good luck

[jennie]

I insult no one.

anyone who says their book tells them to kill others who don't follow their book should be neutralized period

It is actually both an insult and a threat.

Edited September 8, 2007 by jennie

[shavluk]

anyone who says their book tells them to kill others who don't follow their book should be neutralized period

It is actually both an insult and a threat.

hahhaha

yeah so who's book says that then , haha

and if someones does ,which none do in reality , i could care less if they are offended as they are misguided any way

no you are just trying to start garbage and as such , good day to you