ANTI SEMITISM AND CRITICIZING ISRAEL

[Rue]

I was advised by Charles Anthony in my responses to Buffy and Higgly in a line of posts about Israel when responding to their criticism of Israerl

to take care not to inflame with name calling. I appreciate the job of a moderator is to try stop people from inciting hatred or heating things up so they get out of control. In my specific case while trying to criticize specific comments as anti-semitic I may have used words that went to the next step to imply the communicator of them was an anti-semite and I appreciate it is the moderator's job to keep comments non personal, so in my specific case I apologize if I went over the line. I appreciate when criticizing a comment, icare must be taken to limit the criticism to the comment and not the person. I am the first to admit to Monsieur Anthony I probably have crossed that line but not intentionally and that is precisely why he is there to caution and kick one's butt back to the other side of the line so to speak and remain objective and not subjective.

Because of the above I thought it important I try to explain why when criticizing Israel some of us feel the alleged criticism is anti-semitic and our intent when using it is not meant to use the allegation lightly and how we feel people may be in fact making anti-semitic comments intentionally or unintentionally when criticizing Israel. Some of us believe some people deliberately make anti-semitic comments then try package them as simply being innocent criticism of Israeli policy and hide behind that veil to avoid condemnation.

I now want to try explain why some of us feel that it is one thing to criticize Israeli policies it is another to use that criticism as an exercise to in fact demonize all Israelis or blur the line between Judaism, Zionism and Israelis and alleged Israeli government policies and make comments that inflame hatred towards Israelis or Jews or denigrates the holocaust.

Before I do that may I give an example of someone who is a strong critic of Israeli policies but in my opinion is a classic example of how one can do it effectively and striongly without becoming anti-semitic and that is Black Dog. If you read his posts on Israel he is a harsh critic of Israel but never in a way that could be construed to discriminate against Israelis and Jews and so I respect his manner of debating very much and appreciate it and point out yes some of us who are Jews are not as sensitive to criticism of Israel as you think-its not the criticism, but someonetimes how certain people phrase it and the implications that flow from the words used.

The anti-semitism I now refer to I contend overlaps with classical anti-semitism, and can be distinguished from it. It can I would contend be defined as the discrimination against, denial or assault upon national particularity and peoplehood anywhere and in this specific case it is against Jews. Before I go furtehr all my comments are not original and first advanced by Prof. Irwin Cotler in his article Identifying the New Anti-Semitism and my arguements borrow directly and heavily from his thesis.

I would contend in classical anti-semitism, the discrimination is expressed against, or denial of, the right of Jews to live as equal members of a free society; while the newer form of anti-Semitism uses the concept "anti-Zionism" to discriminate against, deny, denigrate, demonize and insult the right of the Jewish people to live as an equal member of the family of nations.

I would then contend that with the creation of Israel, discrimination against Jews which used to be limited to discriminating against Jews can now under the pretense of criticizing Zionism be used to discriminate against Jews as people.

So when I examine peoples’ comments who claim they criticize Israeli policy, I look to see do their comments simply criticize Israeli policy or do they in fact make commentsvthat go further then that and demonize Jews and Israelis for having a country-can the comments made be construed as negative generalizations that lump all Jews or Israelis in one category of criticism simply because they choose to support or live in a Jewish

state?vThis is why I have been very clear only to use the term anti-semitic, when I feel the alleged debater has crossed the line and then I explain clearly why I feel the poster crossed the line.

For many of us, including some of us who happen to be Jewish, the above concept of when anti-Israeli criticism crosses the line is a painful one. We don’t use the phrasevunless we feel we have good reason. In my case it is not used lightly.

I would contend that anti-Semitism can find expression not only such comments such as "Zionism is Racism" but in the exercise of the singling out only Zionism, which I would contend using trendy left-wing terms is the national liberation movement of the Jewish people and suggesting it is by its very nature wrong but no such standard is used for anyone else.

I contend that he singling out of Israel and Jews for wanting to live in their own country is by its very nature anti-semitic and racist as it creates a standard no other people or nation is expected to follow BUT Jews.

I now ask-is it necessary when criticizing Israeli policy for the writer to take care not to make comments that demonize all Israelis?

I would suggest if someone expresses alleged criticism of Israeli policy and it can be construed to make a negative generalization against Jews or Israelis, I or anyone else has the right to call it anti-semitic if it is a comment that expresses a negative generalization.

So for example suggesting Israel as a nation is engaging in genocide or ethnic cleansing in my opinion, is by it s very substantive nature anti-semitic because it necessarily suggests Israelis are racist and carrying out a deliberate plan to exterminate another people.

I contend it is anti-semitic because it deliberately infers Israel’s right to engage in actions to prevent terror are necessarily simply racist because Jews as a people do not have the right to protect themselves.

Look at the comments Higgly and Buffy made for example. They do not limit themselves to criticizing say the amount of force used by Israel and providing constructive alternatives, instead they suggest Israel is evil because it uses children as shields or because Israel is made up of European foreigners who wrongfully took land away from Muslims. It is no longer criticism of Israeli policies, it goes further and brings in anti-semitic stereotypes to utter assumptions and those specific anti-semitic stereo-types are;

1-Jews when making land transactions are dishonest

2-Jews deliberately create policies to kill and hurt children

3-Jews create policies to deliberately invade and occupy land that does not belong to them

All of the above precepts are anti-semitic in that they make assumptions based on subjective negative generalizations that are not based on objective fact but necessarily based on the subjective opinions of the persons expressing them.

I use the word “Jews” above because if you look at Higgly and Buffy’s line of comments and reasoning, any Jew who believes in the right of Jews to live in their own state, as well as all Israelis get lumped into the target of the negative generalizations.

If you also look at their comments, you can also see how they make assumptions predicated on misunderstandings of the Jewish religion and those misunderstandings are not innocent but deliberate.

For example, the assumption Zionism is based on racism is a classic example. Nowhere in Zionist ideology is their any expression of religious or political superiority nor does it talk of treating Muslims as inferiors.

This is precisely what I stated the example that within Israel proper Muslims are afforded the exact same legal rights as Jews unlike what Jews are afforded in the Muslim world or in the past in most Christian countries.

The reckless use of the word Zionism to be used in a subjective sense anytime one wishes to criticize a Jew for wanting to live in their own state is discriminatory and therefore anti-semitic since it singles out Jews.

This is also why I take it very seriously when people whether they be Higgly or Buffy or anyone else toss around further concepts that insult all Jews. Specific examples would be when the nation of Israel and the right of its people to live in a free state, is portrayed as necessarily unjust and therefore any attempt to defend it can then be criticized using terms that suggest Israelis are no better then Nazis.

Accusing Israelis of committing genocide and ethnic cleansing as Buffy did equates them with what Nazi Germans did or what the Serbs did or what the Turks did to Armenians or what Stalin did to Ukrainians, etc.

It necessarily suggests people who escaped to Israel precisely to escape ethnic cleansing and genocide are morally equivalent for starting their nation with the people they escaped from.

It necessarily suggests the 900,000 Jews forcefully expelled from the Middle East for no reason other then they were Jews of whom 700,000 thousand of them had no choice but to come to Israel are guilty of ethnic cleansing because they were ethnically cleansed!

So this is why I take exception to people who criticize Israel and present in my opinion deliberately one sided comments that are designed to inflame intolerance or hatred against not just Israelis as a nation of people, but any Jew or non Jew who believes Israelis have a right to a country and that Jews have a right to a Jewish country.

I can not sit by in silence when I feel for example the holocaust is used inappropriately in a reference to criticize what Israel is doing.

I would argue that it should be considered odiousto any reasonable or rational person when a person uses the holocaust in a manner that trivializes it and uses ito place Israelis on the same moral level as Nazis. That by its very nature does not just insult ALL Israelis but it denigrates ALL Jews and all survivors of the holocaust.

[Bonam]

Good post. Unfortunately, I think the only people that are gonna read it with an open mind are those that already know the difference between valid critiscism of Israel and anti-semitism anyway.

Also, I find it kind of odd that calling someone an anti-semite, when it fits appropriately based upon the comments made, would receive a warning. I would point out that some other recent threads we've had have included multiple personal accusations of being a racist, a white-supremacist, a nazi, a KKK member, an Islamaphobe, etc. If an accusation of anti-semitism deserves a warning, then so should an accusation of racism or any others of the above.

Edited August 10, 2007 by Bonam

[cybercoma]

Good post. Unfortunately, I think the only people that are gonna read it with an open mind are those that already know the difference between valid critiscism of Israel and anti-semitism anyway.

Also, I find it kind of odd that calling someone an anti-semite, when it fits appropriately based upon the comments made, would receive a warning. I would point out that some other recent threads we've had have included multiple personal accusations of being a racist, a white-supremacist, a nazi, a KKK member, an Islamaphobe, etc. If an accusation of anti-semitism deserves a warning, then so should an accusation of racism or any others of the above.

Trust me, it has. I got my wrist slapped for calling someone a bigot.

[marcinmoka]

An excellent post.

Because of the above I thought it important I try to explain why when criticizing Israel some of us feel the alleged criticism is anti-semitic and our intent when using it is not meant to use the allegation lightly and how we feel people may be in fact making antisemitic comments intentionally or unintentionally when criticizing Israel

And while it is true that staggering amounts of people do make blatantly antisemitic remarks under the guise of critiquing Israel or Zionist policy, I would none the less urge a word of caution in using this term. While you have brilliantly articulated the distinction between genuine criticism of Israel and that deeper rooted perversion which only tries to mask itself behind a legitimate facade, many others are much more liberal in their application of the term, and and not nearly as clear and discriminating.

In the post holocaust years, Jews finally started to speak up, en masse, as a means to isolate the creeping, often stealthy and institutionalized antisemitism which clearly threatened their survival. Yet while I do see the understandably existentialist frame of mind which causes many Jews to be very nervous at the first sign of any harsh words pertaining to their community even in the broadest sense, the overuse of the term "antisemitic" could eventually yield to be counter productive.

It is a powerful term pertaining to a real threat. But those who, unlike yourself, use the term indiscriminately risk de-sensitizing the population from its sense gravitas. Furthermore, as the Holocaust drifts into the annals of history as their generation ceases to be a living reminder, the over application of the term risks watering it down in such a way that its connection to the tangible tragic consequences of antisemitism become ever less visible. And than when it rears its ugly head once again, which it no doubt will, there is the risk that people will not be as willing to act so quickly to stomp it out again.

I guess it all lays in finding the proper balance between the preservation of its meaning and its use as a legitimate means of identifying threats.

Edited August 10, 2007 by marcinmoka

[BC_chick]

Rue, remember my thread about Israel's economy benefitting from arms sales since 9/11 and thereby benefiting from the perpetuation of the war on terror? You came back with this....

Please explain because BC you can't make slurs about an entire people and then pretend you are simply discussing its government.

How you reach the conclusion that I am painting all Jews with the same brush is beyond me (especially when I repeatedly said on the thread that Jews are not the first to do this, nor do I think that all Jews support these measures). I notice you do the same thing with anyone who doesn't share your opinions about Israel, you constantly put words in their mouth that they are discussing ALL Jews when talking about Israel?!?!? Again and again you do this.

When you learn to distinguish between "all Jews" and "Israel" you'll understand the difference between "anti-semitism" and "anti-Israel." Keep crying yourself a river about why people single out Israel and you'll forever remain baffled as to why you got the warning you so richly deserve about your character-assassinations of your adversaries.

Oh, if I may get personal for a moment - why can't you ever make a point without writing an epic novel?

And last but not least, in case anyone wants to flame me for being here, I'm still technically on a leave of absence. I'm just here because I got an email saying I had a PM. The upper-case heading of this ridiculous thread caught my eye and I just couldn't resist commenting on it because it's just too funny.

In a sad sort of way.

[White Doors]

In what way is this thread ridiculous?

[sharkman]

Rue, remember my thread about Israel's economy benefitting from arms sales since 9/11 and thereby benefiting from the perpetuation of the war on terror? You came back with this....

How you reach the conclusion that I am painting all Jews with the same brush is beyond me (especially when I repeatedly said on the thread that Jews are not the first to do this, nor do I think that all Jews support these measures). I notice you do the same thing with anyone who doesn't share your opinions about Israel, you constantly put words in their mouth that they are discussing ALL Jews when talking about Israel?!?!? Again and again you do this.

When you learn to distinguish between "all Jews" and "Israel" you'll understand the difference between "anti-semitism" and "anti-Israel." Keep crying yourself a river about why people single out Israel and you'll forever remain baffled as to why you got the warning you so richly deserve about your character-assassinations of your adversaries.

Oh, if I may get personal for a moment - why can't you ever make a point without writing an epic novel?

And last but not least, in case anyone wants to flame me for being here, I'm still technically on a leave of absence. I'm just here because I got an email saying I had a PM. The upper-case heading of this ridiculous thread caught my eye and I just couldn't resist commenting on it because it's just too funny.

In a sad sort of way.

RRRRRIIIght...

[Rue]

"How you reach the conclusion that I am painting all Jews with the same brush is beyond me"

Yes BC for the same reason you responded to me by presuming to tell a Jew what it means to be Jewish.

It would appear there is a lot beyond you.

Edited August 12, 2007 by Rue