July figures for Palestinian Casualites by IDF

[Bonam]

So, Buffy, I was reading the article "Two States or One State" that you linked, taking it with a grain of salt but reading it nonetheless, until I got down to this paragraph:

In March 1948, under the leadership of Ben Gurion, the Zionist leadership decided that in order to have here a democratic Jewish state it was necessary to expel a million Palestinians. Immediately after the decision was taken, they have embarked on systematically expelling the Palestinians. Cruelly they passed from from house to house, from village to village, from neighborhood to neighborhood. When they were done, nine months later, they left behind them 530 empty villages and eleven destroyed towns. Half the population of Palestine had been expelled from its homes, fields and sources of livelihood - more than 80 percent of the population in the territory they conquered. Half of the cities and villages of Palestine were destroyed, and their ruins planted with forests or settled with Jews.

That paragraph so drastically misrepresents the events, leaving out the fact that there was a wide ranging conflict going on, making it seem like a band of roving Jews with pitchforks and torches went around burning down helpless and peaceful villages, that I decided it was not worth reading further.

On your next link, Ilan's site, I glanced at the first article. That article states that Israel is in the process of carrying out a campaign of genocide against the Palestinians. Genocide seems to be a term that is being thrown around rather lightly these days, completely ignoring its definition. Genocide is the systematic eradication of a racial group. Even leaving aside for the moment that Palestinians are not actually a racial group, don't you think that if a campaign of genocide was being carried out, Palestinian population would be declining, rather than growing at among the highest rates of any country on Earth?

Misnaming a situation of what could at worst be called "insufficient protection of enemy civilians during military operations" as "genocide" pretty much shows that that site is not neutral, but is anti-Israeli propaganda.

[jbg]

This should really make one wonder about WHO is really wiping WHO off the map.

If the Palestinians would stop their "struggle" a bit fewer of them might be killed. Don't you think?

[jbg]

Yah, cause targeting children is never done in warfare, (facetious sarcasm)

It is a tactic of demoralization.

If loss of children's life is so demoralizing why are "stuffed animal backbacks" often laced with cellphone-driven explosives?

[sharkman]

I would appreciate if you stay on topic and not attack other posters in my thread.

LOL!!!

[scribblet]

If loss of children's life is so demoralizing why are "stuffed animal backbacks" often laced with cellphone-driven explosives?

Not to mention turning them into human bombs - and celebrating their kid's death.

[ScottSA]

May I intrude in this discussion over...what..."Thirty-four Palestinians, including two children, killed by Israeli army fire in July" for just a moment? I just wanted to post the figures of the Global Jihad for July. I haven't counted, but I think it might be even higher than that nasty Israeli number of 34:

7/31/07 Afghanistan Kabul 1 0 The Taliban murder a 29-year-old Christian man taken hostage.

7/31/07 Pakistan Bannu 1 4 Religious extremists ambush a group of soldiers, killing one.

7/31/07 Somalia Mogadishu 3 4 A 4-year-old child is among three people killed in a brutal rocket attack by Islamists shouting 'Allah Akbar.'

7/31/07 Iraq Baghdad 12 12 A teacher and an engineer are among a dozen people shot and killed in various Jihad attacks around the country.

7/31/07 Ingushetia Magas 1 3 Muslim gunmen attack a bus carrying police officers, killing one.

7/31/07 Somalia Mogadishu 5 3 Islamic terrorists blow up a minibus, killing five civilian passengers that included a woman.

7/30/07 Iraq Baghdad 12 47 At least a dozen Iraqis are killed in three bomb attacks by Islamic terrorists.

7/30/07 Iraq Balad 4 6 A suicide bomber kills six people with a loaded fuel truck.

7/30/07 Pakistan Miranshah 7 1 Four civilians are among seven killed by Taliban militants in two separate attacks.

7/30/07 Iraq Kirkuk 4 0 A woman is among four people shot to death by Islamic radicals.

7/30/07 India Ramban 1 0 Hizb-ul-Mujahideen members kidnap and behead a government teacher.

7/30/07 India Pulwama 2 6 Two children (ages 12 and 14) are killed when Islamists throw grenades at a tourist vehicle.

7/30/07 India Kishtwar 1 0 A civilian is abducted and mudered by the Mujahideen.

7/29/07 Somalia Mogadishu 2 5 Two civilians are killed when Islamic radicals throw grenades into the electronics area of a market.

7/29/07 Thailand Narathiwat 2 0 Two men, one a work-placement employee, are shot to death by Muslim radicals in separate attacks.

7/29/07 Somalia Mogadishu 2 0 Two guards at a market are shot to death by Islamic militants.

7/29/07 Afghanistan Kandahar 13 8 Taliban extremists attack a private aid convoy, killing thirteen guards.

7/29/07 Iraq Balad 6 1 Jihadis lob mortars into a residential neighborhood, killing six people.

7/29/07 Iraq Tuz Khormato 7 6 Sunnis gun down six soccer fans celebrating the country's recent win.

7/29/07 Iraq Balad Ruz 3 25 Islamic terrorists kill three people with multiple bombs at a market.

7/29/07 India Srinagar 7 19 Seven people, including two young girls, are killed when Islamic radicals bomb a bus.

7/28/07 Pakistan Islamabad 14 60 A Fedayeen suicide bomber kills at least fourteen in an attack on a hotel.

7/28/07 Iraq Baghdad 5 22 Sunnis set off a car bomb in a commercial district, killing five people.

7/28/07 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 A 38-year-old mother of three succumbs to her injuries three days after a Religion of Peace bomb attack.

7/28/07 Pal. Auth. Al Bureij 1 0 A young woman is stabbed to death over 'immoral behavior.'

7/28/07 Pakistan Maidan 3 0 Three policemen are brutally murdered by Islamic militants in an ambush.

7/27/07 Ingushetia Magas 1 0 Muslim separatists stage a deadly rocket attack on a government building.

7/27/07 Dagestan Makhachkala 2 1 Islamic terrorists kill an anti-terror cleric and his brother by bombing their car.

7/27/07 Iraq Samarrah 7 0 Seven Iraqi policemen are killed in a Sunni bombing.

7/27/07 Iraq Baghdad 10 2 An engineer and his wife are among ten people murdered by Jihadis in various attacks.

7/27/07 Thailand Yala 1 1 A man is shot twice in the head by militant Muslims.

7/26/07 Somalia Mogadishu 4 3 Islamists hurl a grenade into a coffee shop, killing four civilians.

7/26/07 Pakistan Tiarza 1 2 A Pakistani soldier is killed when Taliban militants fire a rocket into a base.

7/26/07 Iraq Baghdad 61 94 Jihadis murder at least sixty Iraqis with a parked car bomb at a busy market.

7/26/07 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 Islamic terrorists attack two groups of teachers with roadside bombs and shoot a 44-year-old man to death.

7/26/07 Iraq Tal Abta 6 13 A suicide bomber detonates outside a police station, killing six others.

7/26/07 Somalia Mogadishu 1 0 A local official is gunned down by Islamic militants while walking home.

7/26/07 Pakistan Lahore 1 0 A Muslim woman is shot in the head by her son, who suspected her of 'illicit relations.'

7/26/07 Iraq Kirkuk 25 85 Sunni terrorists explode a massive bomb next to a kabob shop, killing over two-dozen innocent people.

7/26/07 India Ramban 1 0 A civilian is kidnapped from his home and murdered in captivity by the Mujahideen.

7/26/07 Somalia Mogadishu 2 3 Two civilians are killed by a landmine planted by Islamic militias.

7/25/07 Iraq Baghdad 23 14 Various Jihad bombing and shooting attacks leave about two dozen Iraqis dead.

7/25/07 Afghanistan Kandahar 1 0 The Taliban shoot a Christian man to death.

7/25/07 Iraq Diyala 9 0 Nine young men are kidnapped and beheaded by Sunni terrorists.

7/25/07 Iraq Kirkuk 2 0 Two farmers are shot to death by Muslim radicals.

7/25/07 Iraq Baghdad 58 125 Islamic terrorists stage two massive car bombings that slaughter over fifty Iraqis celebrating their country's soccer win in the street.

7/25/07 Somalia Mogadishu 5 9 At least three civilians are killed when Islamists bomb an intersection.

7/25/07 India Doda 1 0 A civilian is abducted and murdered by the Mujahideen.

7/24/07 Iraq Hillah 32 68 A suicide bomber detonates in a marketplace across from the maternity ward of a hospital, killing over thirty innocents.

7/24/07 Pakistan Bannu 10 40 Muslim terrorists fire rockets into a village, killing ten civilians.

7/24/07 Pakistan Dattakhel 4 0 Islamic militants attack a security post, killing four members.

7/24/07 Somalia Mogadishu 3 0 A pregnant woman is among three civilians killed when Islamists toss a grenade into a market.

7/23/07 Iraq Khanqeen 5 3 Five truck drivers are murdered by Islamic terrorists.

7/23/07 Somalia Mogadishu 7 0 A woman is among seven victims of an Islamic grenade attack in a commercial district.

7/23/07 Thailand Yala 1 1 A 46-year-old construction worker is shot to death by Muslim militants.

7/23/07 Iraq Baghdad 26 6 Violence in the name of Allah leaves over two dozen dead in various attacks.

7/23/07 Iraq Baghdad 17 49 Three separate car bombings by Muslim terrorists end the lives of seventeen Iraqi civilians.

7/23/07 Iraq Ramadi 7 0 A female suicide bomber murders seven Iraqi policemen.

7/23/07 Iraq Muqdadiyah 2 1 Muslim gunmen take down two electrical workers.

7/23/07 Algeria Boumerdes 1 8 An Algerian security personnel is killed in a bomb attack by Islamic fundamentalists.

7/23/07 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 A 35-year-old is shot to death while fishing in a pond.

7/23/07 India Anantnag 1 1 Islamic militants ambush a security patrol, killing one member.

7/23/07 Pakistan Kagai 2 0 Two men are abducted by al-Qaeda militants and executed by having their throats slit.

7/23/07 India Kishtwar 1 0 The Mujahideen kidnap and execute a 22-year-old man who was collecting firewood.

7/22/07 Iraq Baghdad 22 20 A bombing and several shooting attacks leave twenty-two Iraqis dead at the hands of Freedom Fighters.

7/22/07 Pal. Auth. Gaza 3 0 Three sisters are brutally tortured and stabbed to death over suspicion of 'immoral' activities. Two are teenagers.

7/22/07 Iraq Khanqeen-Buhriz 6 0 Six delivery truck drivers are murdered by the Religion of Peace.

7/22/07 Iraq Jurf al-Milih 5 12 A Fedayeen truck bomber takes out five Sunni leaders for talking peace with Shiites.

7/22/07 Somalia Mogadishu 1 3 A civilian is killed when Muslim militants throw a grenade in a marketplace.

7/22/07 India Ramban 1 0 Hizb-ul-Mujahideen terrorists kidnap and kill a former member who wanted out.

7/22/07 Lebanon Tanbourit 1 4 Shiites shoot Christian villagers who complained of harassment.

7/22/07 Afghanistan Kabul 1 0 The Taliban kill a German hostage, abducted four days earlier.

7/21/07 Algeria Crete 1 2 Islamic fundamentalists attack a group of soldiers, killing one.

7/21/07 Thailand Pattani 0 6 A 10-year-old boy and 13-year-old girl are among the casualites when Islamic radicals bomb a rice shop.

7/21/07 Somalia Mogadishu 2 3 Two civilians are murdered when a terrorist throws a grenade into a marketplace.

7/21/07 Iraq Mosul 26 6 A café showing a soccer match is one site among several Jihad targets as twenty-six people are killed.

7/21/07 Iraq Baghdad 28 31 Islamic 'insurgents' rack up twenty-eight dead Iraqis in several bombing and shooting attacks.

7/21/07 Ingushetia Karabulak 1 0 Muslim gunmen assassinate a government official in charge of 'ethnic relations'.

7/20/07 Afghanistan Kandahar 3 0 Taliban militants murder three civilians with a roadside bomb.

7/20/07 Pakistan Miran Shah 4 6 Four innocents are killed by a suicide car bomber.

7/20/07 Afghanistan Helmand 2 2 Two civilians are killed by a car bomb.

7/20/07 Iraq Baghdad 16 0 Sixteen victims of sectarian violence are found scattered around the city.

7/20/07 Iraq Baghdad 2 2 A ruthless attack by Mujahideen leaves two Australian civilians dead.

7/20/07 Nigeria Sokoto 5 0 A man is burned to death in his home is among five killed in sectarian clashes between Sunni and Shia.

7/20/07 India Rajouri 1 15 A civilian is shot to death outside his home and Islamic terrorists throw a grenade at Hindu pilgrims in a separate attack.

7/20/07 Somalia Mogadishu 1 0 Islamists gun down a drug store owner in his shop.

7/19/07 Pakistan Kohat 18 19 Fedayeen suicide bombers hit a mosque inside an army base, blasting eighteen people to death.

7/19/07 Pakistan Hangu 8 22 At least eight are killed when suicide bombers ram their vehicle into a police training facility.

7/19/07 Pakistan Hub 30 28 Thirty people are slaughtered when Sunni bombers target Chinese engineers along a road.

7/19/07 Iraq Khalis 5 4 Islamic gunmen attack a village, killing five residents.

7/19/07 Chechnya Assinovskaya 2 3 Two policemen are killed when Mujahideen attack their post.

7/19/07 Somalia Mogadishu 6 3 Children playing soccer are hit by mortars fired by Islamists. Six are killed and three injured.

7/19/07 Somalia Baruha 1 0 Islamists shoot a civilian in the head as he is holding a child.

7/19/07 Afghanistan Helmand 6 2 Religious extremists ambush a police car, killing a dozen Afghans at point-blank range.

7/19/07 Iraq Baghdad 20 4 A man killed in front of his wife and children is among twenty victims of Jihad sectarian violence around the city.

7/19/07 Nigeria Sokoto 1 0 A Sunni mob beats a Shia to death.

7/19/07 Afghanistan Fayzabad 1 25 Women and children are among the casualties of a suicide bombing.

7/18/07 Pakistan Miranshah 16 14 al-Qaeda backed militants ambush an army convoy with rockets, killing sixteen Pakistanis.

7/18/07 Iraq Baghdad 22 12 Random sectarian attacks leave twenty-two Iraqis dead.

7/18/07 Iraq Baghdad 4 4 Four electrical workers are killed when Jihadis target their minibus with a truck bomb.

7/18/07 Philippines Lamitan 1 0 A Sunni missionary is dismembered by Abu Sayyaf militants on suspicion of spying.

7/18/07 Russia Kizilyurt 4 3 Islamic separatists are suspected in the bombing of a school playground that kills four policemen.

7/18/07 Afghanistan Zabul 7 4 Seven Afghan police officers are murdered in a brutal ambush by religious extremists.

7/18/07 Iraq Baghdad 17 18 A series of Sunni bomb attacks kills at least seventeen innocents.

7/18/07 Afghanistan Khost 3 0 A suicide bomber blasts three Afghans to Allah.

7/18/07 Pakistan Bajaur 1 0 Islamists kidnap and behead a civilian.

7/18/07 Iraq Khalis 7 0 Seven bus passengers are brutally shot to death by Islamic gunmen.

7/18/07 Afghanistan Kandahar 2 0 Taliban extremists murder two police officers riding bikes.

7/18/07 Nigeria Sokoto 1 0 A Sunni cleric is assassinated by a rival Shiite militia.

7/18/07 Somalia Mogadishu 2 3 Two people are killed when radical Muslims shell a market.

7/17/07 Thailand Yala 1 31 A double bomb attack by Islamic radicals at a railway station leaves at least one person dead and thirty-one injured.

7/17/07 Somalia Mogadishu 1 4 At least one person is killed when Islamic militants throw a grenade into a market.

7/17/07 Iraq Baghdad 31 10 Jihadis ring up over thirty dead Iraqis in various shooting and bombing attacks.

7/17/07 Iraq Samarra 1 3 A hospital director is gunned down by militant Muslims.

7/17/07 Iraq Baghdad 20 20 Sunnis send a suicide bomber into a Shia residential neighborhood to blast twenty innocents to death.

7/17/07 Lebanon Nahr el-Bared 4 0 Fatah al-Islam snipers pick off four Lebanese soldiers.

7/17/07 Thailand Narathiwat 1 1 Islamic radicals shoot a soldier to death by the side of a road.

7/17/07 Pakistan Islamabad 13 45 A suicide bomber detonates in a crowd a political rally. Thirteen innocents are killed.

7/17/07 Pakistan Mir Ali 5 0 A suicide bomber murders five people at a checkpoint.

7/17/07 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 A man is shot to death outside a school by militant Muslims.

7/17/07 Iraq Dulayiya 29 4 Nearly thirty men, women and children gathered for a soccer game are hacked and shot to death by radical Sunnis.

7/17/07 India Baltal 1 17 Islamists toss a grenade into a crowd of Hindu pilgrims, killing one.

7/17/07 India Poonch 2 8 Lashkar-e-Toiba terrorists attack a security patrol, killing two members.

7/17/07 Pakistan Khar Banda 1 0 A civilian is abducted and beheaded by the Taliban.

7/17/07 Lebanon Nahr el-Bared 4 0 Four Lebanese troops are killed by Fatah al-Islam snipers.

7/17/07 Iraq Muqdadiya 14 0 Twelve members of one family are massacred by Islamic terrorists in their home. Two women are gunned down elsewhere in the city.

7/16/07 Iraq Baghdad 39 45 Muslim terrorists rack up forty dead Iraqis in various sectarian attacks.

7/16/07 Somalia Mogadishu 3 4 Two civilians are among three killed by Islamic militants in two attacks.

7/16/07 Pal. Auth. Gaza 1 0 Hamas militants kidnap and suffocate a 45-year-old man.

7/16/07 Iraq Samarrah 5 0 Armed Jihadis shoot five people in the head.

7/16/07 Afghanistan Kandahar 1 0 A Taliban attack leaves one Afghan dead.

7/16/07 Ingushetia Ordzhonikidzevskaya 3 7 A Christian woman and her two children are murdered in their home by Islamic gunmen. Seven mourners are injured when their funeral is bombed two days later.

7/16/07 Iraq Baghdad 2 5 Two sisters are killed when they are taken hostage by Muslim terrorists and forced into a explosives-laden car.

7/16/07 Philippines Tugas 2 1 Abu Sayyaf militants ambush a security patrol, killing two members.

7/16/07 Iraq Kirkuk 85 180 Sunni suicide truck bombers massacre eighty-five Iraqi civilians near a Kurdish political office.

7/16/07 Afghanistan Helmand 3 2 Five Afghans are killed in a roadside bombing by Taliban extremists.

7/15/07 Pakistan Swat 17 47 Civilians are among seventeen people blasted to death by a suicide bomber on a highway.

7/15/07 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 A 52-year-old railway worker is shot to death by Islamists on his way to work.

7/15/07 Somalia Mogadishu 3 0 Two civilians and a government official are killed when an Islamist hurls a grenade into a municipal office.

7/15/07 Thailand Yala 1 1 A Muslim who 'switched sides' is shot to death at a market. His wife is seriously injured.

7/15/07 Pakistan Dera Ismail Khan 25 61 Twenty-five innocents are blown to bits by a Fedayeen suicide bomber on foot.

7/15/07 Iraq Baghdad 22 0 Twenty-two victims of sectarian violence are found, including several women.

7/15/07 Iraq Aziziya 2 0 A woman and her 8-year-old son are brutally gunned down by Muslim terrorists.

7/15/07 Afghanistan Paktika 1 3 One person is killed when Islamists fire a rocket into his home.

7/15/07 Afghanistan Paktika 5 2 Religious extremists kill five highway construction workers with a bomb.

7/15/07 Iraq Baghdad 10 25 Sunnis kill ten with a car bombing along a city square.

7/14/07 Pakistan North Waziristan 23 27 A Fedayeen suicide bomber sends twenty-three Pakistani soldiers to Allah.

7/14/07 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 Muslim terrorists shoot a 66-year-old farmer to death.

7/14/07 Thailand Songkhla 2 0 Two civilians are ambushed and murdered by Islamic radicals.

7/14/07 Iraq Baghdad 28 12 Jihadis manage to kill twenty-eight Iraqis in various shooting and bombing attacks.

7/14/07 Somalia Mogadishu 1 1 Islamists kill a woman and injure her 8-month-old baby in a grenade attack.

7/14/07 Iraq Baghdad 7 15 Sunnis bomb a gas station, killing at least seven people lining up for fuel.

7/14/07 Iraq Hillah 9 3 Jihadis barge into a house and murder nine members of a family, including women and children.

7/14/07 Pakistan Essa 1 0 A Pakistani soldier is shot to death by an Islamic militant at a checkpoint.

7/14/07 Afghanistan Paktia 2 0 Two men are gunned down by religious extremists.

7/14/07 Iraq Suwayra 6 0 Six people are murdered by Islamic radicals and thrown into a river.

7/13/07 Somalia Huriwa 2 0 Two men are shot to death by suspected Islamic militias.

7/13/07 Lebanon Nahr al-Bared 11 50 Fatah al-Islam terrorists kill eleven Lebanese soldiers with rockets and sniper fire.

7/13/07 Pakistan Miranshah 3 0 Three tribal leaders are shot to death at a market by Islamic militants.

7/13/07 Iraq Muqdadiyah 12 0 Sunni gunmen massacre a family of twelve Shia in their home.

7/13/07 India Reasi 1 0 Police recover the body of a man abducted from his home by militants a month earlier.

7/13/07 Iraq Baghdad 5 9 Jihadis gun down five policemen in an attack on their checkpoint.

7/13/07 Iraq Baghdad 2 6 Sunnis kill two Shia civilians with a car bomb.

7/12/07 Iraq Karbala 4 2 Islamic terrorists attack a family car, killing four members.

7/12/07 Iraq Mosul 5 15 Jihadis car bomb and shoot five Iraqis to death.

7/12/07 Iraq Baghdad 28 0 Twenty-eight victims of sectarian violence between Shia and Sunni are found executed.

7/12/07 Thailand Narathiwat 2 0 Muslims shoot an elderly Buddhist couple to death as they are riding to a market.

7/12/07 Pakistan Miranshah 3 3 A Religion of Peace suicide bomber strolls into an office and kills three workers.

7/12/07 Lebanon Nahr al-Bared 4 9 Islamic militants kill four Lebanese soldiers.

7/12/07 Somalia Mogadishu 3 9 Three Somali civilians, including two construction workers are killed in separate attacks by Islamic grenade throwers.

7/12/07 Afghanistan Khost 6 0 Six Afghans are slaughtered when religious extremists attack their patrol.

7/12/07 Pakistan Swat 5 3 Five Pakistanis are killed in a suicide attack on a police vehicle.

7/12/07 Pakistan Spin Wam 1 0 al-Qaeda backed militants cut the head off of a civilian.

7/12/07 Thailand Pattani 1 0 Islamists slash the throat of a 29-year-old man and throw him into a river.

7/12/07 Iraq Tal Afar 7 4 A suicide bomber attacks a wedding, killing seven guest who try and stop him.

7/12/07 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 Muslim radicals shoot a man, then set him on fire under a bridge.

7/11/07 Iraq Baghdad 32 17 Thirty victims of sectarian hatred within the Religion of Peace are found executed.

7/11/07 Iraq Garma 21 50 Two al-Qaeda suicide bombers attack a reconciliation meeting at a residence, then two others kill emergency responders.

7/11/07 Philippines Al-Barka 1 0 Abu Sayyaf terrorists murder a civilian.

7/11/07 Afghanistan Paktia 4 0 Religious extremists ambush and kill four Afghans.

7/11/07 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 Islamists murder a rubber worker on his plantation.

7/11/07 Algeria Lakhdria 10 35 At least ten people are killed when a teenage suicide bomber detonates near a sports venue.

7/11/07 Somalia Mogadishu 7 4 Islamists kill civilians and police by throwing grenades into a market.

7/11/07 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 A Buddhist civilian is murdered in a drive-by shooting attack by Muslim radicals.

7/11/07 Somalia Mogadishu 2 0 Two people are killed by an Islamist mortar attack.

7/11/07 Thailand Patani 1 0 A 58-year-old man is murdered by Muslim radicals as he tends his garden.

7/11/07 Algeria Tigzirt 1 1 Fundamentalists kill a security guard with a bomb.

7/10/07 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 A village chief is ambushed and killed on the road by Muslim terrorists, as he is driving home football players.

7/10/07 Afghanistan Deh Rawud 17 30 A suicide bomber detonates at a market, killing seventeen innocents, including children.

7/10/07 Iraq Baghdad 26 15 Twenty-six people are killed in sectarian violence within the Religion of Peace.

7/10/07 Iraq Nasariyah 3 1 Three children die in separate Jihad attacks.

7/10/07 Iraq Tikrit 12 0 A dozen people are shot to death by Islamic terrorists.

7/10/07 Iraq Sherween 18 40 Eighteen villagers are killed when al-Qaeda militants stage an assault.

7/10/07 Pakistan Kohat 1 11 Islamic militants kill one soldier at a checkpoint.

7/10/07 Somalia Mogadishu 2 5 Two civilians are killed when a grenade is thrown into a busy marketplace.

7/10/07 Thailand Yala 1 0 A 48-year-old Buddhist man is shot to death in his car by Muslim radicals.

7/10/07 Pal. Auth. Gaza 1 0 Hamas militants strangle a 31-year-old man.

7/10/07 Philippines Basilan 14 9 Abu Sayyaf militants kill 14 members of a search party looking for a kidnapped priest. At least ten are beheaded.

7/9/07 Somalia Mogadishu 3 8 At least three civilians are killed when Islamists lob grenades into a market.

7/9/07 Iraq Mada'en 12 0 A dozen workers at a Pepsi plant are abducted and slaughtered by Shia terrorists.

7/9/07 Iraq Baghdad 31 24 Various bombing and shooting attacks by Jihadis leave over thirty people dead.

7/9/07 Afghanistan Heart 4 12 A religious extremist opens fire inside an Afghan army camp, killing four people.

7/9/07 Pakistan Peshawar 3 1 Three Chinese motorcycle workers are shot to death by Islamic radicals.

7/9/07 Iraq Balad 9 20 A roadside bombing leaves nine Iraqis dead.

7/9/07 Iraq Ghazaliya 4 0 Four members of a family are kidnapped and strangled by Islamic terrorists.

7/9/07 Somalia Beledweyne 1 0 Muslim gunmen kill a Doctors Without Borders physician.

7/9/07 Chechnya Vedeno 3 5 Mujahideen stop a Russian vehicle with a landmine, then shoot the occupants.

7/8/07 Somalia Mogadishu 1 0 Islamic gunmen shoot a policeman three times in the head.

7/8/07 Pakistan Bannu 1 3 Islamic militants attack a security patrol with grenades.

7/8/07 Iraq Baghdad 29 0 Twenty-nine bodies are found, victims of sectarian hatred within the Religion of Peace.

7/8/07 Iraq Baghdad 15 33 Three Jihad car bombings leave fifteen civilians dead.

7/8/07 Afghanistan Kandahar 2 0 Two civilians are beheaded by the Taliban.

7/8/07 Iraq Haswa 23 27 Two dozen young Iraqi police recruits are killed when Fedayeen suicide bombers ram into their truck.

7/8/07 Iraq Samawa 3 0 A woman and two children are killed when Islamic terrorists lob a mortar into their home.

7/8/07 Pakistan Islamabad 1 0 A Pakistani solider is killed by an Islamist sniper outside a mosque.

7/8/07 Iraq Baghdad 2 0 The bodies of a husband and wife, kidnapped by al-Qaeda, surface with slit throats.

7/8/07 Pakistan Bajur 1 7 Islamic militants detonate a bomb under a police vehicle, killing one officer.

7/7/07 Iraq Tuz Khurmatu. 156 255 Sunnis launch a very successful attack against Shia civilians, blasting to death over one-hundred and fifty at an open-air market.

7/7/07 Iraq Baghdad 19 0 Nineteen people are kidnapped and executed by Islamic terrorists.

7/7/07 Iraq Khanaqeen 22 15 A Fedayeen suicide bomber kills two dozen innocents at a funeral.

7/7/07 Iraq Mashahidah 8 0 Eight Iraqi soldiers are killed in a brutal and senseless attack on their checkpoint.

7/7/07 Afghanistan Uruzgan 1 0 Religious extremists kidnap a man from his home and then shoot him to death.

7/7/07 Afghanistan Kunar 1 8 A 10-year-old boy is killed when Islamic terrorists fire a rocket into his home.

7/7/07 Afghanistan Kandahar 6 0 Six Afghan police are ambushed and killed by the Taliban.

7/7/07 Chechnya Grozny 2 1 A police officer and an engineer are killed in separate attacks by Jihadis.

7/7/07 Iraq Kirkuk 5 0 Five civilians are murdered by the Mujahideen in two separate attacks.

7/6/07 Somalia Mogadishu 1 0 A government official is assassinated by members of an Islamic militia.

7/6/07 Pakistan Dir 4 1 A suicide bomber on a bicycle kills four Pakistani soldiers.

7/6/07 Pakistan North Waziristan 2 4 An attack by radical Islamists leaves at least two tribesmen dead.

7/6/07 Pakistan Islamabad 2 0 Two students are executed by mosque radicals over their plans to surrender to police.

7/6/07 Iraq Mahmudiya 3 0 Two people are tortured to death by the Mujahideen. A child is killed in a separate attack in Umm Hilayil

7/6/07 Iraq Mosul 2 0 A Kurdish married couple is shot to death by Sunni terrorists.

7/6/07 Iraq Ahmad Maref, 26 33 Islamic terrorists send a suicide bomber into a market, killing over two dozen shoppers.

7/6/07 Thailand Pattani 1 0 A 50-year-old Buddhist woman is shot to death by Islamists in her store.

7/6/07 Somalia Afgoi 1 0 A bus station guard is shot to death by Islamic gunmen.

7/6/07 Iraq Tikrit 7 9 Sunni gunmen attack the home of a peaceful Sheikh, killing seven members of his family.

7/6/07 Somalia Huriwa 4 6 Islamists kill four more children with a roadside bomb.

7/6/07 Somalia Mogadishu 5 0 Five children are killed when a landmine planted by Islamic militias explodes.

7/6/07 Thailand Yala 1 0 An elderly rubber worker is murdered by Muslim extremists.

7/5/07 Afghanistan Spin Boldak 8 11 A suicidal Sunni rams an Afghan convoy with an explosives-laden car, killing eight.

7/5/07 Afghanistan Zherai 2 0 Religious extremists hang two men 'before the public.'

7/5/07 Somalia Bossaso 1 0 A government employee is gunned down at a restaurant.

7/5/07 Iraq Baghdad 18 30 Eighteen people at a wedding party are blown to bits by Sunni car bombers.

7/5/07 Algeria Tizi Ouzou 1 0 An Algerian soldier is killed by a remote-controlled bomb planted by fundamentalists.

7/5/07 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 A civilian is gunned down by militant Muslims.

7/5/07 Iran Takestan 1 0 Authorities stone a man to death for adultery.

7/5/07 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 A 32-year-old rubber worker is shot to death by Islamic militants.

7/5/07 Iraq Baghdad 24 4 Sectarian Jihadis kidnap and execute two dozen dead Iraqis.

7/4/07 Pal. Auth. Gaza 1 0 A civilian is killed in a shootout between two Islamist groups.

7/4/07 Iraq Baiji 7 18 Sunnis bomb a restaurant, killing seven people.

7/4/07 Pakistan Bannu 11 6 Two children are among eleven people killed when a suicide car bomber rams into a group of vehicles.

7/4/07 Iraq Ramadi 14 17 Fourteen innocents are blown to bits by Jihadi car bombers.

7/4/07 Iraq Baghdad 23 9 A woman and her daughter, and two journalists, are among two dozen people murdered by Islamic terrorists in various attacks.

7/4/07 Afghanistan Kandahar 7 0 Six Canadians and one Afghan are killed by a roadside bomb planted by religious extremists.

7/4/07 Pakistan Charbagh 1 0 al-Qaeda militants gun down a policeman on his way to work.

7/4/07 India Kupwara 1 0 A man is killed in a Mujahideen landmine attack.

7/4/07 Iraq Mosul 2 0 Islamists abduct and murder two members of a religious minority sect.

7/4/07 Pakistan Swat 1 4 Pro-Taliban militants fire a rocket into a police station, killing one officer.

7/4/07 Pakistan Swat 4 2 Four civilians are killed when a Muslim terrorist tosses a grenade onto a city street.

7/3/07 Iraq Baghdad 24 4 Three sewer workers and two gardeners are among two dozen people killed in random Jihad attacks.

7/3/07 Pakistan Islamabad 3 0 A Pakistani soldier, businessman and a cameraman are shot to death by student radicals at a madrassah.

7/3/07 Iraq Baghdad 18 40 Sunni bombers send eighteen market-goers straight to Allah, while leaving another forty in agony.

7/3/07 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 A young woman is shot to death by Muslims as she is picking up food for her mother.

7/3/07 India Rajouri 1 1 Hizb-ul-Mujahideen terrorists attack a security patrol, killing one member.

7/2/07 Afghanistan Kandahar 7 0 Seven Afghan cops are blown to bits by a Taliban roadside bombing.

7/2/07 Afghanistan Khost 1 1 An education director is gunned down by religious extremists.

7/2/07 Pakistan Mir Ali 1 1 al-Qaeda backed militants kill a Pakistani who resists kidnapping.

7/2/07 Iraq Baghdad 9 33 Sunni radicals car bomb a Shia neighborhood, sending at least nine innocents to Allah.

7/2/07 Yemen Marib 10 8 Eight Spanish tourists and their two drivers are murdered by an al-Qaeda suicide bomber, who rams into their convoy.

7/2/07 Thailand Narathiwat 1 0 A 28-year-old villager is shot to death by Islamists.

7/2/07 Thailand Yala 1 0 Muslim radicals murder a 47-year-old rubber tapper on his way to work.

7/2/07 Somalia Horuwa 1 0 Two militant Muslims corner and gun down a government official.

7/2/07 Iraq Baghdad 26 18 Sectarian terror attacks between Sunnis and Shias leave over two dozen dead.

7/1/07 Iraq Mosul 19 0 At least nineteen bodies surface around the country of civilians kidnapped and executed by the Mujahideen.

7/1/07 Afghanistan Helmand 1 4 A British soldier is killed by a suicide bomber.

7/1/07 Iraq Ramadi 7 20 Seven Iraqi police are killed in separate suicide attacks by Fedayeen.

7/1/07 Chechnya Grozny 2 2 A landmine attack kills two Russians.

7/1/07 Iraq Baghdad 18 12 A suicide bombing and other Jihad attacks account for fifteen dead Iraqis.

7/1/07 Thailand Pattani 1 2 Muslim terrorists fire on a group of young students, killing a 58-year-old teacher and injuring two boys, ages 9 and 11.

7/1/07 Thailand Pattani 1 2 A woman is killed, and two other people injured when Islamic gunmen fire into a Buddhist tea shop.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

[buffycat]

um hmmm Scott. I see you fail to mention the 700,000 or more dead Iraqis (thanks to those brave Christian soldiers huh? How about the displaced millions of Iraqis?

Oh I forgot - they aren't people according to you.

Your post has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, as usual you attempt feebily to divert.

Sorry:

http://www.haaretz.com/

[ScottSA]

um hmmm Scott. I see you fail to mention the 700,000 or more dead Iraqis (thanks to those brave Christian soldiers huh? How about the displaced millions of Iraqis?

Oh I forgot - they aren't people according to you.

Your post has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, as usual you attempt feebily to divert.

Sorry:

http://www.haaretz.com/

700,000 Iraqis killed this month? That's a lot! Link please?

Then perhaps you can explain what that totally irrelevant link that you DID supply was all about?

Edited August 5, 2007 by ScottSA

[buffycat]

Scott - During the war, not just this month. I'll have to look that up, but you can bet your bottom dollar it is way more than 34 and way more than the loss of American life too. All of it is a tragedy don't you think?

Got yer billboard yet?

I posted Haaretz so you could read the articles and some of the feedback. Thought you might actually open your mind for two seconds and see what the Israeli press itself reports about.

I posted it for interest.

I don't need your permission, nor do I have to justify one thing to you. I am just being polite right now and explaining - for whatever good that might do.

ciao

[Higgly]

Higgly stated the following subjective opinions which are not based on historic fact as if they were and I quote;

1-The facts of recorded history, B. Max, are that the Jews who created Israel were Europeans who never lived in the area.and who waged a terrorist campaign against the British until they left.

2-They then declared the nation of Israel and started a campaign to drive out the Palestinian Arabs who were living in the region and many of whom had legal title to the land they were living on in order to create the state of Israel.

3-The facts are, B. Max, that the Jews who created Israel were terrorists and interlopers and that they have created, and continue to create, their country by illegally conducting a campaign of ethnic cleansing against the people who have lived there for centuries.

4-The facts are, B. Max, that the First Zionist Conference sent 3 rabbis to Palestine to invetigate whether this might be a suitable home for the Jews and that those Rabbis sent a telegram which said "The bride is beautiful, but she is married to another man."

5-The facts are, B. Max, that Zev Jabotinsky, the founder of Likud, developed a strategy called "The Iron Wall" which meant the use of overwhelming military force to take land and suppress the resident Arab popluation until they finally gave up in futility and agreed to accept the state of Israel. The facts are that successive Israeli leaders like Ben Gurion, Meier, Shamir, Netenyahu and the psycopath Sharon have followd that strategy to the letter, with the help of the United States of America.

6-Those are the facts of recored history, B. Max.

All the above comments posted by Higgly are not referenced. They also are his personal subjective political opinions presented as histroic facts.

This is precisely why I now tell people on the forum I find Higgly to be intellectually dishonest.

He presents his subjective opinions as if they are historic fact.

I simply will state this-anyone can go on the inter-net and easily find out the actual historic facts and find out for themelves why what Higgly has presented is in fact subjective fabrication and personal opinion being presented as something it is not.

For me its not worthy of a response unless someone other then Higgly asks me to.

Tom Segev; One Palestine Complete: Jews and Arabs Under the British Mandate

Avi Shlaim; The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World

Margaret Macmillan; Paris, 1919: Six Months that Changed the World

Read and weep, Rue.

<<edited for spelling>>

Edited August 6, 2007 by Higgly

[sharkman]

um hmmm Scott. I see you fail to mention the 700,000 or more dead Iraqis (thanks to those brave Christian soldiers huh? How about the displaced millions of Iraqis?

Oh I forgot - they aren't people according to you.

Your post has nothing to do with the topic of this thread, as usual you attempt feebily to divert.

Sorry:

http://www.haaretz.com/

Ah yes, the 700,000 or more the left squeezed and skewed out of reality with their SURVEY based count. I'll say this for you buffy, you took your suspension like a man, unlike figleaf, who moaned and whined. Good for you.

[Rue]

Tom Segev; One Palestine Complete: Jews and Arabs Under the British Mandate

Avi Shlaim; The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World

Margaret Macmillan; Paris, 1919: Six Months that Changed the World

Read and weep, Rue.

<<edited for spelling>>

Once again Higgly you show how devoid you are of intellectual integrity. The references you quote are not only incomplete but do not even render the conclusions you do. Pathetic. Some of us read Higgly and we do not re-write what we read to distort it and present it in a way that expresses subjective opinions as historic facts.

[Rue]

There have been so many historic misrepresentations by Buffy or Higgly I am not sure where to start. In Higgly's case I don't really care. In Buffy's case, I am concerned someone who is still young and idealistic is not taking the time to scrutinize what she reads, and not simply read what she thinks tells her what she has preconceived as being the only answer.

Buffy please stop and think when you write. You have compared Israel and what it does to ethnic cleansing. Do you even know what the word ethnic cleansing means?

Buffy people use the word ethnic cleansing and genocide to try gain moral ground in an arguement, but its a tired device. When its used against Israelis, it is deliberately used to turn the holocaust around against Jews and suggest they are engaging in a holocaust which in fact degrades and belittles what they went through.

Stop and think when you hurl such accusations and how spiteful they are. Stop and think. DO you really believe ISrael has a policy to exterminate Palestinian Muslims? Do they have train tracks leading to the Gaza and West Bank where Palestinians are placed on trains and then sent to death camps where they are gassed or shot in mass shootings?

All youd o Buffy is when you compare what is going on in the West Bank and Gaza as an ethnic cleansing is to show you have no clue at all what an ethnic cleansing is let alone genocide. You throw the words out but you have no clue what they mean and so you trivialize them.

You know full well Israel has never engaged in ethnic cleansing or genocide. You are fully aware in Israel, the Arab Israeli population has continued to grow and there are over 300,000 Arab Israelis in schools and that Muslim Israelis have the exact same legal rights and access to schools hospitals, etc.

If Israel was engaged in genocide Buffy, how is it the Palestinian population has grown as it has? Why don't you go check out the growth of the Palestinian population?

Why don't you take the time to determine just how Palestinian civilians have died and try figure out why it has not been done as part of a policy to exterminate before you suggest it is.

There are even members of Hamas that have laughed off people like you who claim to support Palestinians accusing Israel of genocide. Even Hamas laughs at people like you because of your ignorance. Why don't you read what Hamas says about people like you who claim to support their cause?

For you to come on this post and suggest Israel has a policy of exterminating Palestinians because they are Palestinian is not even worthy of a further response. I may answer it to others in another post but not to you directly. For you to write such a thing shows, you don't read and think and analyze-your agenda is to incite and inflame and make moral accusations that are deliberate in their intent to disparage the holocaust and suggest another one is happening by the victims of the holocaust.

It is basic primative anti-semitism at its worst-trying to blame victims of a holocaust of being victimizers in an effort to portray them as demons.

In your world Israel does not try defend itself against terrorists, it simply for no reason, goes into Gaza and the West Bank and mass murders Palestinians.

It is not worthy of a further response.

[Higgly]

Once again Higgly you show how devoid you are of intellectual integrity. The references you quote are not only incomplete but do not even render the conclusions you do. Pathetic. Some of us read Higgly and we do not re-write what we read to distort it and present it in a way that expresses subjective opinions as historic facts.

You asked for references. You got references. Where are yours?

[Higgly]

There have been so many historic misrepresentations by Buffy or Higgly I am not sure where to start. In Higgly's case I don't really care. In Buffy's case, I am concerned someone who is still young and idealistic is not taking the time to scrutinize what she reads, and not simply read what she thinks tells her what she has preconceived as being the only answer.

Buffy please stop and think when you write. You have compared Israel and what it does to ethnic cleansing. Do you even know what the word ethnic cleansing means?

Buffy people use the word ethnic cleansing and genocide to try gain moral ground in an arguement, but its a tired device. When its used against Israelis, it is deliberately used to turn the holocaust around against Jews and suggest they are engaging in a holocaust which in fact degrades and belittles what they went through.

Stop and think when you hurl such accusations and how spiteful they are. Stop and think. DO you really believe ISrael has a policy to exterminate Palestinian Muslims? Do they have train tracks leading to the Gaza and West Bank where Palestinians are placed on trains and then sent to death camps where they are gassed or shot in mass shootings?

All youd o Buffy is when you compare what is going on in the West Bank and Gaza as an ethnic cleansing is to show you have no clue at all what an ethnic cleansing is let alone genocide. You throw the words out but you have no clue what they mean and so you trivialize them.

You know full well Israel has never engaged in ethnic cleansing or genocide. You are fully aware in Israel, the Arab Israeli population has continued to grow and there are over 300,000 Arab Israelis in schools and that Muslim Israelis have the exact same legal rights and access to schools hospitals, etc.

If Israel was engaged in genocide Buffy, how is it the Palestinian population has grown as it has? Why don't you go check out the growth of the Palestinian population?

Why don't you take the time to determine just how Palestinian civilians have died and try figure out why it has not been done as part of a policy to exterminate before you suggest it is.

There are even members of Hamas that have laughed off people like you who claim to support Palestinians accusing Israel of genocide. Even Hamas laughs at people like you because of your ignorance. Why don't you read what Hamas says about people like you who claim to support their cause?

For you to come on this post and suggest Israel has a policy of exterminating Palestinians because they are Palestinian is not even worthy of a further response. I may answer it to others in another post but not to you directly. For you to write such a thing shows, you don't read and think and analyze-your agenda is to incite and inflame and make moral accusations that are deliberate in their intent to disparage the holocaust and suggest another one is happening by the victims of the holocaust.

It is basic primative anti-semitism at its worst-trying to blame victims of a holocaust of being victimizers in an effort to portray them as demons.

In your world Israel does not try defend itself against terrorists, it simply for no reason, goes into Gaza and the West Bank and mass murders Palestinians.

It is not worthy of a further response.

Well, Rue, what there is in Israel is a policy to occupy and seize Palestinian land by administrative fiat backed up by military force, not to mention the expulsion by force of Palestinians during the 1948 war. The Israeli organization "Peace Now" has confirmed that some 45% of the land under Israeli settlements is owned (as in I paid my mortgage and I own this land) by Palestinians. This includes over 80% under the strategically key settlement of Ma'ale Adummin.

You are trying to deflect the issue by defining ethnic cleansing as in Nazi Germany. Ethnic cleansing is the forced removal of people from the land they rightfully own and occupy. Tell us, Rue - what happens to a Palestinian who doesn't get out of his or her home in the 30 seconds that the IDF usually allows before sending in the bulldozers?

[buffycat]

There have been so many historic misrepresentations by Buffy or Higgly I am not sure where to start. In Higgly's case I don't really care. In Buffy's case, I am concerned someone who is still young and idealistic is not taking the time to scrutinize what she reads, and not simply read what she thinks tells her what she has preconceived as being the only answer.

While I thank you for your concern, I began this ride in life on the other side of the fence Rue. I was a stringent a supporter of Israel and Zionist ideals as IMO you currently are, that was the environment I had growing up. Golda was an icon in our household, along with Netanyahu and the whole concept of Israel for the Jews. So, you see, I have known the other side and now do try to understand both.

Buffy please stop and think when you write. You have compared Israel and what it does to ethnic cleansing. Do you even know what the word ethnic cleansing means?

Buffy people use the word ethnic cleansing and genocide to try gain moral ground in an arguement, but its a tired device. When its used against Israelis, it is deliberately used to turn the holocaust around against Jews and suggest they are engaging in a holocaust which in fact degrades and belittles what they went through.

Rue, what happened to the European Jews in WW2 is not in question, nor all of the other humans who died - IMO there is no corner of the market on suffering - most all have experienced it at one time or another and many still do. I am quite well aware of what ethnic cleansing and genocide means, thank you Rue - and to a large degree what the diehard Zionists indulge in is exactly that - ethnic cleansing. Ben Gurion, Sharon, Mier, Shamir have all been quite forthright about their feeling wrt Arab natives inhabiting the Jewish State, and have done much within their power to see that a 'pure' Jews only state evolves. Whether it be housing and land permits, marriage arrangements, prefered immigration within Israel or the illegal settlements within the Occupied Territories the policy of colonialism and ethnic cleansing has been a hallmark of many Israeli administrations - this is part of what has contributed to the insecure position that Irael finds herself in, as well as the overall poor reputation she has in the world for being a troublemaker. These are not simple accusations Rue and you darn well know it.

Or do you support the illegal settlements and the sort of behaviour we see occuring in Hebron for example? I certainly do not - but nor do I condone the use of suicide bombings against innocent Israelis either - something you certainly seem to miss. There are nasty folk on both sides of this conflict, and no one can say that the sides are equal.

Do they have train tracks leading to the Gaza and West Bank where Palestinians are placed on trains and then sent to death camps where they are gassed or shot in mass shootings?

Umm no because nothing can go into or out of Gaza (including all humanitarian aid as well as their own tax monies, trucks, exports etc without Israel's consent. So, technically Gaza is nothing more than a wide open prison, under siege and with the many starving and malnourished - this is simply a fact. I won't bother to mention the other banustans scattered throughout the West Bank, cut off from one another by a web of checkpoints, roads built that no Palestinian can travel, water restrictions etc - I think you might just get the point. Slow starvation and mass demoralisation is part of the whole ticket. Keep in mind that not all inmates of the concentration camps died in the ways you describe either - many died of typhus and of starvation after the infrastructure was destroyed by the allies, now is that any better? Who knows - the whole thing was a tragedy, but hey lots of folk got nice and rich didn't they? What I always found so hard to understand growing up was how the Israelis could justify mass expulsions of Palestinians and the takeover of their lands after the same sort of thing happened to them - this is one of the things which I always found rather perplexing.

You know full well Israel has never engaged in ethnic cleansing or genocide. You are fully aware in Israel, the Arab Israeli population has continued to grow and there are over 300,000 Arab Israelis in schools and that Muslim Israelis have the exact same legal rights and access to schools hospitals, etc.

Now, Rue you know that the above is simply not true and there are many examples currently being chewed over in Israel herself these days that illustrate that fact - any perusal of Haaretz, Jpost or Ynet will give you more than enough info to realize that what you are professing above is just not true.

Gee, look at this one involving a Brit:

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?ed...rticle_id=84314

(It's in lots of papers, I just grabbed the first one off the google block). This as you know is a normal occurance in Israel, as well as in the occupied territories. Has it never occured to you that if Israel would stop her expansionist agenda and the outright theft of other's properties that she might not have such a huge problem?

Why don't you take the time to determine just how Palestinian civilians have died and try figure out why it has not been done as part of a policy to exterminate before you suggest it is.

Ummm the name Avigdor Lieberman ring a bell?

There are even members of Hamas that have laughed off people like you who claim to support Palestinians accusing Israel of genocide. Even Hamas laughs at people like you because of your ignorance. Why don't you read what Hamas says about people like you who claim to support their cause?

Why would you think I am some kind of Hamas supporter? The above is simple hogwash designed to divert - come on Rue you can do better than that.

For you to come on this post and suggest Israel has a policy of exterminating Palestinians because they are Palestinian is not even worthy of a further response. I may answer it to others in another post but not to you directly. For you to write such a thing shows, you don't read and think and analyze-your agenda is to incite and inflame and make moral accusations that are deliberate in their intent to disparage the holocaust and suggest another one is happening by the victims of the holocaust.

It is basic primative anti-semitism at its worst-trying to blame victims of a holocaust of being victimizers in an effort to portray them as demons.

In your world Israel does not try defend itself against terrorists, it simply for no reason, goes into Gaza and the West Bank and mass murders Palestinians.

It is not worthy of a further response.

Then why did you bother? Oh so you could play the old Holocaust and Anti-semite card? That does NO Jew any favours Rue, it's classic diversion and whining.

[Higgly]

While I thank you for your concern, I began this ride in life on the other side of the fence Rue. I was a stringent a supporter of Israel and Zionist ideals...

Oh me too. I swallowed the whole thing hook, line and sinker. Then I went to the Middle East, and I talked with some real live Palestinians, and I begin to wonder if all was kosher in the land of Abraham. So I read.... a lot. What I came to understand is that somebody is getting screwed, and it ain't the people who were responsible for the Holocaust.

Here are some more references for you Rue...

Robert Fisk; Pity the Nation: Lebanon at War

Robert Fisk: The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East.

Rogue States: Naom Chomsky

There are no good guys in the Middle East, Rue. Only victims and psychopaths

Edited August 6, 2007 by Higgly

[Rue]

You asked for references. You got references. Where are yours?

You did not provide references. What you have done is;

1-present subjective personal political opinions as historic fact

2-when you are caught, present a list of alleged sources, with no page references

3-make a fool of yourself having us believe these sources can be quoted without page numbers, specific paragraph references and be presented as historic fact as opposed to subjective opinions you think you are repeating-there is zero historic documentation or archives-simply opinion

4-even if you repeat opinions of others this does not make them historic fact

5-the sources you did supply without page numbers or paragraphs for quotes are not proof of historic fact

6-the sources you quoted do not even match your subjective opinions

7-I am calling you out Higgly, you deliberately fabricated a story portraying yourself as holding a person cowering from the IDF in Gaza, without a doubt the most pathetic thing I have read yet.

Higgly I will debate with others and respond to others, but never again will I waste my time with someone so intellectually void of integrity as you.

As for my comments Higgly, any comment I have stated can be found in any historic text book on Jewish history or Muslim history. What is clear Higgly is you do not read historic texts and have no clue what an historic text is and pass off opinion articles as history texts.

You want to find out where I get my references from Higgly. Read what I write for a change. Let's start with the most obvious-I make it clear when and if I refer to a text or archive or document.

Please I can't wait to hear another story of the girlfriend you held in your arms in the Gaza as she cowered from IDF soldiers with zits.

[Rue]

Oh me too. I swallowed the whole thing hook, line and sinker. Then I went to the Middle East, and I talked with some real live Palestinians, and I begin to wonder if all was kosher in the land of Abraham. So I read.... a lot. What I came to understand is that somebody is getting screwed, and it ain't the people who were responsible for the Holocaust.

Here are some more references for you Rue...

Robert Fisk; Pity the Nation: Lebanon at War

Robert Fisk: The Great War for Civilisation: The Conquest of the Middle East.

Rogue States: Naom Chomsky

There are no good guys in the Middle East, Rue. Only victims and psychopaths

There you have it. Higgly continues to tell us he has been to the Middle East. He also tells us this is why he has determined Israel is evil and Palestine is good and he can make anti-semtiic slurs.

Read what he writes and I quote; " it aint the people who were responsible for the holocaust"....how is that possibly relevant to the conflict?

The only reason it was raised is to deliberately denegrate the holocaust and once again I state, Higgly never misses the opportunity when making his alleged criticism of Israel to fabricate and make slurs and call names that denigrate all Jews.

He then presents texts that are not history books and clearly opinion pieces. The fact he can't tell the difference between a subjective political opinion and historic facts and texts recording historic facts is not suprising, neither is his repeated slurs of the holocaust and insulting of all Jews when he allegedly discusses the conflict.

[Rue]

Buffy read back Higgly's last comment on the holocaust and tell me what the f..ck that has to do with the Palestine conflict and why he raise it.

As for you and your arm-chair expertise garnered from reading only articles you want to read, I will not take the time to respond to you because I believe you are now playing childish games. I do not for one second think you or Higgly have ever been to the Middle East.

I hope someone else has the patience to deal with a woman who has the audacity to say she was in the Gaza but would write in to this forum making Valley Girl comments and ridiculing missile attacks from Hamas with words such as Oh My God and equating what goes on in the Gaza with mass exterminations of Palestinians. Its past the point where anyone reasonable would respond.

Edited August 7, 2007 by Rue

[Rue]

deleted

Edited August 7, 2007 by Rue

[buffycat]

quote name='buffycat' date='Aug 6 2007, 12:06 PM' post='242348'

Buffy read back Higgly's last comment on the holocaust and tell me what the f..ck that has to do with the Palestine conflict and why he raise it.

As for you and your arm-chair expertise garnered from reading only articles you want to read, I will not take the time to respond to you because I believe you are now playing childish games. I do not for one second think you or Higgly have ever been to the Middle East.

I hope someone else has the patience to deal with a woman who has the audacity to say she was in the Gaza but would write in to this forum making Valley Girl comments and ridiculing missile attacks from Hamas with words such as Oh My God and equating what goes on in the Gaza with mass exterminations of Palestinians. Its past the point where anyone reasonable would respond.

This post has been edited by Rue: Yesterday, 09:45 PM

Wow, calm down Rue I think you are about to blow a gasket.

Where did I say I was in Gaza? Hmmm can't seem to find that anywhere. Perhaps you could be so kind and quote it for me?

Until then I'd suggest not making baseless insults just because you are on the losing end of this discussion - which btw you seem unable to address or even admit: Israel has not dealt in good faith and nor does she have intention to do so.

B'TSelem issued another press release today wrt the illegal settlements and checkpoints in the WB - any comment on that? Do you really not think that these forms of collective punishment (a key part of ethnic cleansing) contribute to the ongoing problems?

(I'm not expecting you to keep to topic, but it would be nice if you can manage to address the topic of the thread Rue).

[Rue]

I may have made a false assumption Buffy inferred she was in the Gaza. If I did I apologize. I will now take the time to respond as Buffy requested in a civil manner;

Your use of the the term genocide to accuse Israelis of moral and war crimes insults all Jews and holocaust survivors as well as misuses the term genocide.

The actual term genocide was first ued in 1943 by the Jewish-Polish lawyer Raphael Lemkin who combined the Greek word "genos" (race or tribe) with the Latin word "cide" (to kill) to describe the holocaust. is concept was then incorporated into articles 2 and 3 of the 1948 Convention on the prevention of Punishment of Genocide.

Genocide consists of a mental intent to destroy in whole or part a nationality, ethnic, race or religious group and one of 5 physical actions; i-killing members of a group, ii-causing physical or mental harm to members of a group; iii-deliberately inflicting on a group conditions meant to bring about their destruction; iv-imposing measures to prevent birth and v- forcing the transfer of children of a group to another group.

Michael Ignatieff when he was director of the Carr Centre for Human Rights Policy at Harvard University, stated;

"Those who should use the word genocide never let it slip their mouths. Those who unfortunately do use it, banalise it into a validation of every kind of victimhood “.

William Shawcross has stated

;

"[T]he word genocide [has fallen] victim to a sort of verbal inflation, in much the same as happened with the word fascist. It has been applied freely and indiscriminately to groups as diverse as the blacks of South Africa, Palestinians and women, as well as in reference to animals, abortion, famines and widespread malnutrition, and to many other situations. The term genocide has progressively lost its initial meaning and is becoming dangerously commonplace. In order to shock people and gain their attention to contemporary situations of violence or injustice by making comparisons with murder on the greatest scale known in this century, 'genocide' has been used as synonymous with massacre, oppression and repression, overlooking that what lies behind the image it evokes is the attempted annihilation of the entire Jewish race. . . The inevitable consequences of such misuse of language are a loss of meaning and a distortion of values"

Buffy in your alleged criticism of Israel deliberately by calling what they do genocide,you necessarily cequate the Nazi genocide with the treatment of Palestinians by Israel. This necessarily suggests the industrialised slaughter of Jews in factories built for the express purpose of exterminating six million men, women and children is the same as what they now present as behaviour being done by Israelis.

I would contend this exercise is deliberate and intended to trivialize the holocaust and is a classic form of anti-semitism-it is designed to turn the Jewish victim into Jewish victimizer . It necessarily demonizes all Jews. It deliberately brings the holocaust into the discussion of Israeli anti-terrorist policies blurring the concepts of Zionism, Judaism, Jews and Israelis into one group to scapegoat as evil.

You deliberately equate the creation of the state of Israel with the suffering of Palestniian people so that tto justify denying any rights of Jewish people to self-determination and cultural preservation.

You have created a double standard in which Muslims are allowed to have Sharia Law and states that do not differentiate religion from state, and a world where the same can be done by Christians or anyone else-but when Jews do it – it this is automatically racist. That contention by its very nature is racist as it selects Jews out and says they can’t have the same right to self-determination others have simply because they are Jewish. This is no longer a matter of criticizing Israeli policies, it becomes an attack on any Jew who seeks the right of self-determination and it engages in the trivialization of the holocaust and using it in a manner to suggest Jews are Nazis.

Buffy I expect Higgly to enagge in basic anti-semtiic slurs such as suggesting all Zionists are European or Jews can not be trusted to engage in any land deals and were deliberate liars with a secret agenda. I expect someone like him to toss the holocaust concept about inanely and constantly make slurs that insult all Jews and blur the categories of Zionism, Judaism, Jews and Israelis.

I expect him to slur all Israels as psychopaths and then use the memory of the holocaust to do so. This comes from a man who quotes opinion pieces as historic fact and portrays himself as the saviour of Palestinians.

But what is your excuse?

The term “exterminatory anti-semitism” is used to refer to the exercise of depicting Jews as a collective embodiment of evil dedicated to the task of dominating a group or groups. This is precisely for formula Hitler used to justify his final solution and it is precisely the formula you now engage in. In Higgly's case it is deliberate. In your case it comes from not taking the time to find out what the actual historic facts are and not mix them with political opinions of certain people.

I do not doubt the IDF has made mistakes and used excessive force. But to equate what they do with Nazism and to slur all Israelis who simply do not want to be attacked by terrorists as being part of a racist system condoning genocide is intellectually lacking in integrity.

I expect it from Higgly, not you.

You want to come on this forum and promote simplistic equations that denigrate the holocaust slur all Jews let alone Israelis-you bet I will be annoyed.

Edited August 7, 2007 by Rue

[buffycat]

Rue I haven't said anything wrt the Holocaust outside of mentioning that YOU are the one who is always playing that card.

Is what happened to the Jews (and others) during WW2 equivalent to and excuse to do whatever they like and damn the consequences? Of course not - yet it is used as such by you. Hence if anyone is belittling what they went through it's you and not I.

Furthermore - I would prefer you comment on the topic - ie treatment of Palestinians in the OCCUPIED territory by the IDF.

That is the topic - not Higgly, not me (and the crap you MAKE up about me).

Can you stay on topic? If not - butt out. Thanks

[Gravitas]

If systematic obliteration of a people is 'genocide', and Israel has not only denied the existence of a Palestinian-people, but also openly adopted a policy of ethnic-cleansing, isn't that a systematic and calculated obliteration of a people?