I'm officially supporting the Liberals

[mikedavid00]

If faith based schools do not receive approval, there will be groundswell to dismantle the Catholic system. Our courts would bend to the pressure and base its decision on all kinds of arguments (discrimination, attack on religious rights, etc.) It would then order the Catholic system be discontinued. I don't like it, but I see it coming.

Actually it's in the constitution that we are entitled to Catholic schools and quebec is entitled to Protestant schools.

Changing it is near impossible.

Basically what's happenning is that we're bending over trying to be 'fair' to everyone. Becuase of this, the Jews lost their ability to settle marital disputes out of course.

Now, we talk about taking away our Catholic system (which can't happen very easily).

But why is all this happenning? Becuase we have culture based people coming here, who are not here to work, and want to change our ways of doing things.

This schooling step is more damaging then Multiculturalism by 10 fold.

But NOTHING is more damaging to use than our own immigration policy. People are coming here to live, not to work. There's a lot people from the stonage can do when they have a lot of time on their hands.

[madmax]

Hey,

Well I never thought I'd say this, but I am officially supporting the Liberal party here in Ontario and will not vote for the Conservative party here in Ontario.

I am not surprised to hear it. You didn't vote Conservative Federally, because you didn't vote. I expect you will do the same Provincially.

Here's why (link):

Quoting the CBC ????

[capricorn]

Honestly, I didn't know who I would vote or in the upcoming Ontario elections until now. This made up my mind for me. Call it the straw that broke the camel's back

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto.../National/home/

I mean, enough is enough. A cricket association gets $1,000,000.00? What the.....

McGuinty's apologies just don't cut it.

[mikedavid00]

Honestly, I didn't know who I would vote or in the upcoming Ontario elections until now. This made up my mind for me. Call it the straw that broke the camel's back

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto.../National/home/

I mean, enough is enough. A cricket association gets $1,000,000.00? What the.....

McGuinty's apologies just don't cut it.

This is what a Parlimentary system craetes. Parliment is a functioning system when it represents a homoginous culture of people .When people are split into minorities and segregated cultures, the pary must then get in power by paying off each seperate culture which is racisism.

This is just anohter way that immigration is eating at our country. Canadian tax payers have lost political power. This was not the case just 15 years ago.

I cannot do vote for a party however that wants to further segregate us as Canadians. I beleive it would be the most destructive cultural move in our history and would seal our fates.

Kids would be coming out of school with accents. The balkanization would start.

[capricorn]

Mikedavid00, Tory's idea is not a done deal. Not by a long shot. Even if McGuinty is re-elected, what guarantee do we have that one party or another won't present a bill in the Legislature do do just what Tory is floating. From what I read, opinion is split on the merits of faith based schools. So the whole issue does not reside as to who will be at the helm come October.

There are just too many strikes against the McGuinty team during their term in office. The health care premium is McGuinty's biggest albatross. This tax touched every tax-paying Ontarian and has not been forgotten. Once the comparison between the federal Liberal adscam scandal and this immigrant aid grant program gels in the mind of voters, well, who knows how the vote will go in October. Either way, it will be a minority government.

[Shakeyhands]

There are just too many strikes against the McGuinty team during their term in office. The health care premium is McGuinty's biggest albatross. This tax touched every tax-paying Ontarian and has not been forgotten.

This one makes me laugh. our healthcare system is stronger now than I can ever remember, those dollars were needed after the "Common Sense Revolution" that decimated our hospitals. No more nurse strikes, less drain to south of the border of our doctors and better care in our hospitals. Infact we are seeing new hospitals being built as well as regional cancer centers... Yeah, quite an albatross.

Once the comparison between the federal Liberal adscam scandal and this immigrant aid grant program gels in the mind of voters, well, who knows how the vote will go in October. Either way, it will be a minority government.

I'm unsure on this one, from what we know so far, it seems, well, unseemly. McGuinty should have fired Colle straight away and immediately started a prob into how this happened. McGuinty's moves in the next 7 days will be interesting to see.

Edited July 28, 2007 by Shakeyhands

[capricorn]

There are just too many strikes against the McGuinty team during their term in office. The health care premium is McGuinty's biggest albatross. This tax touched every tax-paying Ontarian and has not been forgotten.

This one makes me laugh. our healthcare system is stronger now than I can ever remember, those dollars were needed after the "Common Sense Revolution" that decimated our hospitals. No more nurse strikes, less drain to south of the border of our doctors and better care in our hospitals. Infact we are seeing new hospitals being built as well as regional cancer centers... Yeah, quite an albatross.

How did the McGuinty government manage the money transferred from the feds for health care since 2004? How come the improvements we are seeing now were not there when these sizable transfers were made to Ontario? These are the total federal transfers since 2004:

2004-05 $16.9B

2005-06 18.8B

2006-07 19.5B

Total: $55.2B

In 07/08 the transfer will total $20.9B.

http://www.fin.gc.ca/FEDPROV/mtpe.html#Ontario

With that kind of money going to Ontario for health care, it's no wonder many Ontarians balked at the 2004 health tax. I, and many others, never agreed with McGuinty that the health tax was necessary.

When the health tax was brought in, it was estimated it would generate $1.6B in revenues annually.

http://www.fin.gov.on.ca/english/media/2004/bk-ohp.html

IMO, if our health care had not improved over the last few years with this level of investment, well, nothing could have fixed it. The question is, how far did the $1.6B health tax really contribute to these improvements? That, I have no way knowing.

Edited July 28, 2007 by capricorn

[betsy]

Mind you, I do agree that religious schools should not be funded by the public. It should be funded by their respective followers. That being said, religious schools should have the freedom to teach their doctrines to their students, without the interference of the government...as long as no crimes are being comitted and no laws being broken.

At a call-in talk show, several people voiced their concern that at public schools, trends are being taught....one caller gave homosexual lifestyle as an example. A couple fo people who said they are not really religious but that they're happy with the quality of teaching their kids are getting at a Catholic shool.

Edited July 29, 2007 by betsy

[capricorn]

How many parents from other faiths send their children to Catholic schools? This thought crossed my mind when I read Betsy's post about some people stating they objected that the public system teaches children that homosexuality is an alternative lifestyle.

In actual fact, faith based schools may appeal to many parents because they object to the present curriculum of the public system for a variety of reasons, including scholastic achievement.

If ever faith based schools were introduced in Ontario, they should only see the light if they match dollar for dollar public funds expended for their construction and operations, and the government sets all the standards (testing, inspection, etc.).

In such a scenario, of course all faiths would be admissible to the public system as is the case now. What would happen if a Muslim wanted to send their child to a Catholic school, or a Jewish school? What then?

What a can of worms!

[Posit]

If ever faith based schools were introduced in Ontario.....

Faith based schools are already in operation in Ontario and many of them receive public funding. The question is should we offer faith-based schools "equal" funding like the Separate School Boards receive?

[kuzadd]

Faith based schools are already in operation in Ontario and many of them receive public funding. The question is should we offer faith-based schools "equal" funding like the Separate School Boards receive?

No we shouldn't and the Catholic board, should not even get the funding it does.

IMO, religious schools should be privately funded by the people, who want there kids to go there to get 'religious instruction'.

which IMO belongs at church, anyway.

That said, no politican who is hoping to get elected or re-elected will withdraw Catholic school funding, and further funding of more religious schools is throwing good money after bad.

[ThePessimist]

Then you should know what Dion - the leader of McGuinty's Party - had stated at an interview at the opening gala of the Hindu temple. "Tolerance is not enough."

Anyway, isn't McGuinty the one who actually contemplated legalizing Sharia Law?

For him to even consider such a move is beyond stupid, really. He will do anything for votes!

Betsy, your first statement shows that you are so ignorant of politics you shouldn't be discussing your views in public.

But I can't let your second statement stand unchallenged because you have it 100% backwards.

McGuinty didn't initiate the review of Sharia arbitration ... a Muslim group did. Ontario had religious arbitration for family matters on the books for Catholics and Jews. Muslims said this was unfair and that they should have it too.

McGuinty changed the law to remove all forms of arbitration based on religion.

For that brave move, he deserves to be Premiere for life.

ThePessimist

Edited August 8, 2007 by ThePessimist

[mikedavid00]

Well we all saw it coming. It's over. There won't be a win for the CPC and I'm sure most Ontarians (even card carying members here on the forum) are breathing a silent breath of releif. The upward momentum just isn't there. And the below breaking news seals the fat of the CPC.

It's breaking news so isn't on the sites yet. I heard it on CBC Radio:

Basically a long time veteran of the PC party is officially not supporting his party leader in ethnic schooling and says he will vote against it if Tory is elected and will not follow his leaders idealisms.

When team mates are fighting to keep there jobs and turning their back on their leader, it's a real bad situation and there's no turnining back.

Thank God Tory didn't get elected. I don't know why he did what he did but he'll have to suffer the consequences. He can go to Alberta maybe and ban cell phones and racially segregate Alberta.

Just don't worsen the Ontario nightmare that we live with every day.

---

EDIT

This post was the Opening Post of a previous thread once titled: John Tory - It's over. subtitled: Devistating turn of events for the Tory's. which is no longer accessible as a separate thread and this current integrated thread has been re-titled to convey accuracy and avoid spelling errors.

As with all merged threads, all of the original posts from all of the daughter threads are preserved and displayed in chronological order.

Edited September 24, 2007 by Charles Anthony
multiple thread merged into current thread

[kengs333]

No, he'll just run in the next federal alection and become one of Harper's cronies.

[guyser]

Thank God Tory didn't get elected.

God had nothing to do with it.....the Vote is Ocotber 10th.

(You really should remember that day, of course if you dont want a voice keep your tradition going then.)

[jennie]

Well we all saw it coming. It's over. There won't be a win for the CPC and I'm sure most Ontarians (even card carying members here on the forum) are breathing a silent breath of releif. The upward momentum just isn't there. And the below breaking news seals the fat of the CPC.

It's breaking news so isn't on the sites yet. I heard it on CBC Radio:

Basically a long time veteran of the PC party is officially not supporting his party leader in ethnic schooling and says he will vote against it if Tory is elected and will not follow his leaders idealisms.

When team mates are fighting to keep there jobs and turning their back on their leader, it's a real bad situation and there's no turnining back.

Thank God Tory didn't get elected. I don't know why he did what he did but he'll have to suffer the consequences. He can go to Alberta maybe and ban cell phones and racially segregate Alberta.

Just don't worsen the Ontario nightmare that we live with every day.

So the racists 'anti-ethnic schooling' gang is deserting Tory. Boy he really misjudged his 'constituency'.

I am not sure whether to be happy or sad. It is sad when people make decisions based on racism.

I am happy that John Tory is no real threat, but I have little respect for those voters.

[mikedavid00]

So the racists 'anti-ethnic schooling' gang is deserting Tory. Boy he really misjudged his 'constituency'.

I am not sure whether to be happy or sad. It is sad when people make decisions based on racism.

I am happy that John Tory is no real threat, but I have little respect for those voters.

But don't you see, that's where you are wrong.

Tory is being the racist by promoting racial segregation which *is* racism.

Segregation meets the definition of racism. You are choosing who you decide to associate with based on race.

You choose what school you go to based on race. They will be teaching 'language and culture' at these schools. These will not be Canadian schools.

People who don't live in Ontario really don't understand just how many ethnic schools there would be. This is not throwing some little group a bone.

We are talking every 3rd school being a racial school.

52% of the GTA (which is about 20% of our whole country) is born OUTSIDE OF CANADA.

27% of Ontario is born OUTSIDE OF CANADA.

I will not hear a call to prayer from a loudspeaker outside my house for the 'Pakistani Division of Islamabad Sperate School Board'.

He is really retarded to be honest.

[mikedavid00]

So the racists 'anti-ethnic schooling' gang is deserting Tory. Boy he really misjudged his 'constituency'.

I am not sure whether to be happy or sad. It is sad when people make decisions based on racism.

I am happy that John Tory is no real threat, but I have little respect for those voters.

Also the majority of immigrants asked are against this schooling becaue they know what will happen if we head down this slope.

Mixing religion and politics just isn't a good idea and most immigrants do not have a problem with Christian schoolbards.

I mean don't get me wrong, they would like to be accomodated to some extent, but certainly the don't expect to change things that have been here for 100's or years. It's a very small finge group that are trying to establish a new power base by getting their hands into the public cookie jar.

[ScottSA]

It is sad when people make decisions based on racism.

You ARE the woman who wants the Indian race to get back caledonia, right? Or are you going to try to redefine "Indian" to be something else entirely?

[Bruce24]

Tory's schools funding policy is "racist"? What nonsense. What is unfair and discriminatory (according to the UN) is the funding of one particular religious group to the exclusion of others. When public and Roman Catholic schools were separated originally, "public" meant Protestant, because these were the two principal religious groups at the time. Now "public" means secular, and Catholic is still Catholic. Making funding available to people willing to set up certified, tested schools so that they can teach their children their values and religion in addition to teaching them the core subjects of the Ontario curriculum is simply in line with the philosophy of the basic rights we enjoy: freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc. Making people pay thousands of dollars a year to send their kids to such schools in addition to the thousands of dollars they pay in taxes that go to the publicly funded schools is simply unfair.

[guyser]

. Making people pay thousands of dollars a year to send their kids to such schools in addition to the thousands of dollars they pay in taxes that go to the publicly funded schools is simply unfair.

Nobody "makes " them go .They spend that money of their own free will.

The answer should be, one school system , one school board.

[M.Dancer]

Still haven't made up my mind......

but given that I will choose to send my children to separate schools....I don't want to see their funding taken away., and given that I believe most Ontarioan are fed up with the lawlessness accompnaied by these bogus land claims.....

CALEDONIA, ONT. — Ontario Opposition Leader John Tory pledged Sunday to crack down on illegal occupations such as the long-simmering standoff between native and non-native protesters in Caledonia by beefing up the province's trespassing laws. But his own aides conceded it is not at all clear whether the province has the jurisdiction to enforce such laws on native lands.

Mr. Tory made the announcement near the disputed tract of land in the southwestern Ontario community as part of a campaign stop to burnish his law-and-order credentials and to blame Liberal Leader Dalton McGuinty's “legacy of weak leadership” for the standoff, now in its 18th month.

He said a Progressive Conservative government would expand the definition of trespassing to include anyone who organizes or finances illegal activities, not just those who physically occupy someone else's property. His party would also double the fines for trespassing to up to $2,000 a day for individuals and to $25,000 a day for corporations.

The proposed changes to the province's trespassing laws were the latest in a string of policy announcements by Mr. Tory in recent days. But much like other initiatives, including a proposal to fast track the building of more nuclear reactors and extending public funding to religious schools, this appears to be a work in progress

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...ection2007/home

But in the end, Tory is still a tarnished cable executive with a blond streak a mile wide.

[mikedavid00]

Tory's schools funding policy is "racist"? What nonsense. What is unfair and discriminatory (according to the UN) is the funding of one particular religious group to the exclusion of others. When public and Roman Catholic schools were separated originally, "public" meant Protestant, because these were the two principal religious groups at the time. Now "public" means secular, and Catholic is still Catholic. Making funding available to people willing to set up certified, tested schools so that they can teach their children their values and religion in addition to teaching them the core subjects of the Ontario curriculum is simply in line with the philosophy of the basic rights we enjoy: freedom of speech, freedom of religion, etc. Making people pay thousands of dollars a year to send their kids to such schools in addition to the thousands of dollars they pay in taxes that go to the publicly funded schools is simply unfair.

Hey bruce, i've been waiting for an outside Tory supporter (who is working for the campaign) to come in here and try to sway public opinion and here you are.

I don't give a good God damn what the UN has to say about my country.

We have a system that isn't broken, and we don't need to fix it. I'm not Catholic and went to a Catholic school. Catholic schools are like public schools with uniforms. They don't teach 'language and culture' at these schools. The don't promote racial segregation.

But that's not the issue. The PC party should not be an idealist based party. Leave that to the Greens and NDP. If he had to bring is athiest viewpoints onto us ONtarian's, the least he could have done was try to end catholic schooling which would have been truly 'fair'.

But no, he had to try to pander to the scummiest of immigrants entering Canada which are a small group of radicals who want to establish a power base.

They had a good chance to win this election and they blew it. He should run against Miller next time around and enter into city politics where he belongs.

[Littlefinger]

Still haven't made up my mind......

but given that I will choose to send my children to separate schools....I don't want to see their funding taken away., and given that I believe most Ontarioan are fed up with the lawlessness accompnaied by these bogus land claims.....

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...ection2007/home

But in the end, Tory is still a tarnished cable executive with a blond streak a mile wide.

In that case, all you need to do is to not vote for the Green Party. They're the only ones proposing to end funding for Catholic schools. Politically, it's just not possible. Both the Liberals and the NDP know this. In fact, Tory knows it too. He just thought he could get some of the immigrant vote and it's blowing up in his face.

[jennie]

John Tory's Sleepover

Karen Howlett, September 24, 2007 at 9:04 PM EDT

Memo to Dalton McGuinty:

Remember Etta Young, the elderly woman in Cobourg that Opposition Leader John Tory told us about during last week's all-candidates' debate? She's the one who doesn't have a family doctor and has placed an ad in her local newspaper looking for one. Or the woman in Mississauga who'se been waiting more than a year for an operation on her knee and is walking with two canes?

Well, the reason Mr. Tory has all these anecdotes at the ready when he criticizes the way your Liberal Party governed over the past four years is because he never stops travelling around the province, talking to ordinary folks.

It was here that Mr. Tory divulged that this was his ninth visit to the community, one he said Mr. McGuinty has not set foot in. He even spent the night last December at the home of Anne Marie and Paul Vansickle. He said he would have been quite happy to sleep on the couch but the Vansickles insisted he take their bedroom.

"I point out that they weren't also there in the bedroom," he joked.

. . .

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto.../WBeveryoneblog

haha ...

Edited September 25, 2007 by jennie