Paul Chretien, Jean Martin ? Confused ?

[Craig Read]

Some questions for Jean Martin:

1)Why do we need 39 Ministers + 26 Parliamentary Secretaries ?? To do what exactly ? And why does the media report that Liberal hacks are now 'Right Wing' ?? Huh. Did we miss something? Anne McLellan [now in charge of Security? come on, she is an incompetent], David Anderson, Sheila Copps, Bill Graham are right wing ?? Duh okay.

Here are some winning Minstries:

-Minister for 'Multiculturalism and Women's Rights' [now headed by the rotund Jean Augustine]. What is her job description and who is Augustine?

- Minister Western Diversification ? Huh. What the hell is this ?

-Minister of State for Children and Youth

-Canadian Heritage

-Fisheries and Oceans

-Secretary of State for Asia Pacific

-Secretary of State for Crown Corps

-HRDC

.......... how about getting rid of half ?

Oh sorry, most of these 39 + 26 are Martin Loyalists. Oh i see that explains their maintenance. Oops. So much for gov't reform and spending reform [wouldn't want to hurt a friend's feelings now by cutting spending].

2) Martin leaks to the US press Thursday that he loves America and will increase military spending. Yesterday he states to the Cdn Media that there will be no increased military spending and that Health care [with no reforms of course] is a priority. Thanks for being clear Jean Martin.

3)Martin's website was a litany of policy babble and conflicting claims designed to please [like his Cabinet] the entire country. Like the class fat boy who needs friends, and becomes the class clown, it appears that Martin wants to be loved by all. Now behold the list from his website www.paulmartin.ca has Magically disappeared !

So where is the plan for the next King ? Martin gave a speech last week in which he laid out his summary:

Briefly, the three broad goals Martin believes critical to the future are:

Further securing the social foundations upon which Canadians rely, which includes:

building universal and high quality health care, including quicker access to surgeries and medical procedures and a coordinated national approach to public health;

lifelong learning with a particular emphasis on early childhood development;

combating homelessness;

ensuring seniors enjoy high quality of life and dignity;

striking a New Deal for municipalities;

Building a 21st century economy, which includes:

sound fiscal management such as lower national debt ratio, lower interest rates and lower taxes;

ongoing reviews for federal government programs

Ensuring Canada’s place in the world as one of influence and pride, which includes:

developing, as a matter of priority, national security for policy that includes and extends beyond our relationship with the United States.

No details, and the claims conflict and compete - higher social spending with debt and tax reductions. Sorry mate, but you don't cut taxes and increase spend.

But the media Loves our overweight man Paul gushing that he is pro American, right of centre and a man to clean up Parliament and Democracy.

Maybe. But I think Jean Martin or Paul Chretien is another Liberal and will carry on Trudeau Liberalism, regardless of media adoration.

[Lost in Manitoba]

I thought McLellan was finished after the SARS outbreak. She continually made herself and her department look incompetant, especially when it came to communication with hospitals and the public. This might be sexist but I do like the fact that it is a woman who is in charge of security.

Bill Graham doesn't seem to have enough backbone for foriegn affairs but that could be just because he is a liberal.

The western diversification may be a good thing if I understand it right.

What ticks me off is that everything Martin is promising is intriguing, like a carrot in front of the donkey, but there won't be enough time before the next election to see him follow through with it. So, all the dumb asses (maybe myself, oh the shame) will vote for him so that he can continue. Ah, but thats the same trick that Chretien played.

[Craig Read]

Yes Lost Paul Chretien learnt his master's arts well. Leak conflicting stories to the media -'We support the war on Iraq' - 'No we don't go to war until the UN supports it'. Jean Martin is the same - he promises all things to all people and will in effect do little. He is the master of the media spin - and when he shows a little leg, the liberal media swoon and salivate.

To be effective within 4 years you can only fight 2 or 3 major battles and win them - so pick 3: Military reformation; tax and debt cuts and spending cuts; and democratic reforms [how about eliminating 20 ministeries !!]. These fall within the purview of the Federal Parliament. Health reforms [ok axe the Stupid Canada Health Council that is another good idea] and energy reforms are provincial mandates. Stop wasting air time on them.

How about the midget Cabinet ? Where is the quality ? Bill Graham is an embarassment - the Cdn apologist for PLA terrorism and anti-US foreign policy. McLellan - totally inept and as unsavoury as Sheila Copps.

I don't see a roadmap, plan or vision from Jean Martin. His website is now bare of policy plans.

Maybe the Cdn media can start asking the tough questions instead of kissing Paul Chretien's royal butt.

[RB]

the government is overwhelm with itself, thats why they are getting bigger, shuffling problems into sub sections

hrdc will be divided up, but watch how big the sub sections grow in the mean time … to reach the current bureaucratic alignment

i like their theme of “cirles”. first you have a big municipal circle, then a bigger provincial circle and the biggest federal circle…none intersecting, each with their own circumference and arm of reach radius. the only reason I describe the government this way is because it gives the notion of no limitations, and never precluding higher vision for the land hence continually it raises above itself.

the thing to realize is that limitation is considered a SIN.

because only then you begin to comprehend the genius in the folks and to question their in/competencies: for example aren’t they suppose to be matched with talents, enterprises, knowledge … or are we going round table and ask which position is next, who is still not assigned … good grief I only had to look at the security minister biography and it is not fitting the job of the land

isn’t there such an assembled group independent of politics that can keep these folks in check

[Galahad]

Some questions for Jean Martin:

1)Why do we need 39 Ministers + 26 Parliamentary Secretaries ?? To do what exactly ? And why does the media report that Liberal hacks are now 'Right Wing' ?? Huh. Did we miss something? Anne McLellan [now in charge of Security? come on, she is an incompetent], David Anderson, Sheila Copps, Bill Graham are right wing ?? Duh okay.

Here are some winning Minstries:

-Minister for 'Multiculturalism and Women's Rights' [now headed by the rotund Jean Augustine]. What is her job description and who is Augustine?

- Minister Western Diversification ? Huh. What the hell is this ?

-Minister of State for Children and Youth

-Canadian Heritage

-Fisheries and Oceans

-Secretary of State for Asia Pacific

-Secretary of State for Crown Corps

-HRDC

.......... how about getting rid of half ?

Amazingly the US manages with only 15 equivalents to our Ministers... with 10 times our population. And for some reason they stay in their positions unless something drastic happens. The US president doesn't just have a cabinet shuffle every time he's in the mood. They realize that there's a learning curve to every position.

But we ENJOY re-inventing the wheel.

And changing stationary.

HRDC has been cut in two...with one part now called "The Ministry of Social Deveopment". Who came up with THAT name...one of Krushchev's old aids? So now our bureaucrats are out to "develop" us socially. Scary. Where's the Virtue & Vice Ministry? Stay tuned.

But Martin's going to win in a landslide. This appears to be what our fellow Canadians want. Go figure.

[Craig Read]

RB, you stated,

for example aren’t they suppose to be matched with talents, enterprises, knowledge … or are we going round table and ask which position is next, who is still not assigned … good grief I only had to look at the security minister biography...

Right on. This kills me. The Minister of Defence has ZERO military knowledge. The Minister of Finance, for all his political skills, is not a trained financial man. Ditto for the extremely ugly Anne McLellan. Sorry but is being ugly a requirement for politics - what does Anne know about health or security?

Galahad your point is great. The US manages with 40 % LESS departments. I am not one to defend the size of the US gov't since i believe it is too big, but why does Canada need a Secretary of State for Asia or the Middle East or someone running 'Children's affairs'?

Patronage, rewarding friends and paying off allies must have a limit surely ?

Or will the # of Ministers only rise with time ?

[Craig Read]

Walter Robinson President of the CTF makes a good comment on the interventionist tendency of Paul Chretien - illustrated by his 27 Secretaries:

For example, Human Resources Development Canada (HRDC) – an unwieldy $70 billion department – has been busted into the Department of Human Resources and Skills Development and the Department of Social Development.  And if Liza Frulla’s comments (the new Social Development Minster) about importing several Quebec-styled provincial social programs into the federal domain come to true, look out, the sticker shock will be big. 

Yet to get a grasp of the very interventionist regime that Paul Martin envisages for Canada, one need’s to examine the job titles of the 27 parliamentary secretaries and their “special emphasis” responsibilities.  From science to entrepreneurship to public-private partnerships to value-added industries (doesn’t everybody try to add value?), it seems that for every problem or issue imaginable, Mr. Martin is opening a window of government to tackle and/or tinker with said issue. 

This approach was disastrously employed by former Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau for 16 years and landed the country in big heap of national debt.  While it is only day one of the Martin era, the watchwords for taxpayers must be “caution and vigilance.”  And hold on to your wallets!

Martin did not prove during the 90s that he was a Conservative fiscally responsible Minister. He played a shell game with taxes - increasing business taxes and decreasing personal income taxes - and lived off of Ontario's and Alberta's growing economy, as well as slashing transfers [ie. money taken from citizens in provinces but not returned to them], to the Provinces.

[Greg]

Ditto for the extremely ugly Anne McLellan. Sorry but is being ugly a requirement for politics

This statement is plain stupid. Cut it out.

[Cameron]

So, all the dumb asses (maybe myself, oh the shame) will vote for him so that he can continue. Ah, but thats the same trick that Chretien played.

Why vote with the status-quo? Make a difference in this country. The majority of Canadians are probably going to vote liberal next election, because he is going to give them the world from now untill then (and of course, they are going to eat it up like sheep). Then in a year or so they will compalin about the status of Canada, and how the country is going down the drain.

Same shit, different leader.

[Boydfish]

39 Ministers + 26 Parliamentary Secretaries

Let's see, the Canadian Constitution Act, as poorly written and implemented as it is, is still subject to the laws of basic math:

Section 91 gives the confederal government roughly 29 seperate responsibilities. Granted, #2 is 2. and 2A, but #29 is a loosey-goosey catch-all of dubious origin.

That means, that assuming that we need a Minister of Weights and Measures, the largest possible cabinet should have 29 seats.

Any wonder why British Columbians barely noticed that the Canadians changed their PM on Friday? We don't take him or the Canadian government in general as a serious subject matter anymore.

[Craig Read]

That is right Boyd. 39 Departments ! I am wondering when we will have 'Committees for Public Safety' that were set up in Revolutionary France, or Autocratic Russia - just to make sure the people don't get out of line. Canada is the most over-governed nation in the world when you add up politicians per capita. It works out to 1 politician for every 72000 citizens. Rather a large number. The US has less than half that number.

Martin would do us a great favor if in his many many promises he would reduce the size and purview of gov't. The Feds should be focusing on their areas of Constitutional responsibility.

As well, according to the Fraser Institute our companies have faced a backlash due to our anti-American rhetoric and our decline in the world. We must fix this asap.

As Paul Martin prepares to improve relations with the United States, a new study dramatically reveals how costly deteriorating ties have been to Canada’s economy. The Fraser Institute’s 2003 Trade Survey, The Unseen Wall, released today, shows that a remarkable 96 percent of Canadian exporters surveyed believe that Canada/US relations have worsened over recent months and – far more worrisome – two-thirds believe it has damaged their ability to sell to the United States

and in general

"No matter what indicator you look at -- relative affluence, competitiveness, contribution to peacekeeping, relations with our friends, the UN Development Index, or even the health care we provide our citizens -- Canada has failed to keep pace with the rest of the world," says Fred McMahon, senior analyst at The Fraser Institute. "The policies outlined in the 'Mandate for Leadership' are based on best practices from around the world and on solid empirical research. We strongly urge our incoming Prime Minister to adopt these policies."

[RB]

leadership is sadly lacking – and we are not getting the leaders we deserve

maybe if we can identify what is the big part of our disillusion with the government we can hastily come to some rhetoric - (i didn't read the fraser report)

but here is what i meant ... for example:

i have some experience interacting with the folks from the canadian arm forces … they are always trying to encourage folks to sign on and i would listen intently to question usually asked of them from the public…

well what do you do really ?

- most of our government are not visible in the community, you almost not know what they are up to

- people scarcely know who is in charge , or never heard of the folks in power

– well how can we change power of the most important position and BC did not care

i was in grad school in Nebraska a couple of years back, most of my group was from the military but i had the special opportunity to visit their station, and i also had daily interaction with them.

it was not about doing a damm good job, we acertain that yesterday, there is special pride in each of those folks, a bond so strong first with themselves and then to the people of the land … from an outsider perspective and more so for the american public you are convince to the extreme that you can put your faith in the hands of these trusted folks.

they respect and honor their highest government in control, and then they respect, show of honor and display of dignity to the direct leaders in charge and for the people just a chain-reaction…they believe in their government is special …and they probably know all their leaders by names… i know we do

makes you truly wish canadians had such fierce pride and dignity with themselves and in their government

[Craig Read]

RB said

leadership is sadly lacking – and we are not getting the leaders we deserve

This depends i would argue that a cowardly socialist post modern society deserves the Paul Chretien or Jean Martin's or Howdy Doody McGuinty or worse, David Miller [now spitting].

The question is - are Canadians socialist 'post modern' and 'cowardly' - or is this an elite/media invention ? If the elite and not the people are post modern and socialist - then why do the people put up with such bad leadership ? Is this why voting rates are 50 % in this country ?

Jean Martin announces that Bush must hand over Hussein to the Euro wimps for proper processing - along the same lines as Milosovic one assumes.

Paul Chretien announces no new military spending but $2 billion more for health - with no reforms one assumes.

Lots of rhetoric, reviews, policy commitees, and 'discussions' but nary a real reform, plan or vision in sight from His Worthiness Jean Martin.

It is early yet, but Martin sounds suspiciously like Chretien.

Further down the food chain of politics, it only gets worst....don't even mention David Miller - an artefact from the 60s now running Toronto.

[Lost in Manitoba]

Why vote with the status-quo?

What's the alternative? The Cons? Yeah right. Won't sell my soul for better fiscal management. If one of my friends turns out to be gay, damn rights I'd like for him to be able to be married. If my neighbors son is caught smoking weed, damn rights I don't want his future ruined because of it. And if the Guys below us have a moron for a leader and insist on defying the international laws, well I just hope we don't have our lips too firmly attached to that moron's ass to say something.

Sorry, the party of Angry White Guys isn't for me.

[Craig Read]

Well that is why you are Lost in Manitoba - another have nothing or have not province, living off the fat of Ontario's lamb and Alberta's resource revenues. Maybe you guys should build a province that Gasp! pays it own bills.

How about this ? We kick David Miller out of Toronto, elect Plato's Wise Men, wall off the city, tax any and everything that comes in and out of the GTA and don't send a nickel outside the City Walls.

I would enjoy that. Then suddenly all this socialist nonsense, post modern fantasy, international drivel and feel good [here buy my vote by spending more money than we need to] rhetoric will magically disappear as reality intrudes and interrupts the somanbulic socialist free riders.

Once Canada is reorganised than maybe we would tear down Toronto's wall.

[Lost in Manitoba]

Good thing for my welfare province that your attitude is not the norm in the GTA, isn't it. Thank God the pinko NDP and bleeding heart Liberals are the ones that people vote for.

I see no reason to get huffy, Craig. I'm all for fiscal management and major overhaul of all government management and social spending. I just don't think it's a reasonable compromise to become a bigot or religious zealot for good government. In a utilitarian view, isn't it more sound to include everyone in society, to induce a state of (enforced) harmony, so that the societal machine runs more smoothly and efficiently. Let gays get married = more financial stabillity = buying a house + car = good for economy. or boy smokes weed socially = boy gets caught = boy goes to jail = prison spends money on housing him (negative) = boy gets out without training or hire-abillity (negative) = boy goes on assistance or shady lifestyle (negative) = net drain on society for smoking weed.

[KrustyKidd]

RB

the government is overwhelm with itself, thats why they are getting bigger, shuffling problems into sub sections

Like they always did. Too scared to make a move for fear of disproval. Shuffle the paperwork around on the desk to keep busy until next election. That's the Liberal way.

Bush and Blair stood for something. Some might hate them and disagree with what they did but none can disagree that they were, and are courageous men. Leaders, men that put it all on the line for what they believed, right or wrong.

What does Martin believe? Does he believe that everything on this planet is just hunky dory? If not, why does he not show some leadership and do something instead of shuffling paperwork?

Answer: He is just a Liberal.

[Lost in Manitoba]

Courageous has too much of a positive conotation. I'd agree that they were firm and decisive in their actions, and definitely we don't see too much of that in our politicians.