Justice Department study: gay moms equally-good parents

[normanchateau]

Does anybody have the link to this 74-page review?

No, the guy who got it through the access to information act hasn't bothered to let the unwashed masses actually touch it, apparently. He wants us to take his word for it.

Aside from the fact they didn't do any of their own research, just handpicked studies they liked, and aside from the fact they only spent $25,000 on it, it seems pretty balanced. NOT

You appear to be claiming that the Concordia professor and graduate students handpicked the more than 100 rigorous, peer-reviewed scientific studies that they cited in their review. This suggests that there's a bunch of scientific studies which provide contradictory conclusions which were intentionally not cited in their review.

Care to provide references or citations to those contradictory studies?

[guyser]

To say that a child who is raised with two loving mothers is going to be exactly the same as one that has a mother father relationship is a crock. Two completely different recipes do not give you the exact same result.

Who said they would be? You are not exactly the same as your neighbour and you both grew up in mom and dad homes.

In fact , havng two moms might mean the kid is better........could that happen? Sure could. And the other way around. Funny thing about kids, there are no guarentees they will turn out great.

[normanchateau]

To say that a child who is raised with two loving mothers is going to be exactly the same as one that has a mother father relationship is a crock. Two completely different recipes do not give you the exact same result.

In fact , havng two moms might mean the kid is better........could that happen? Sure could.

I'm not sure if the professor who wrote the review considered this but here's one possible reason why two moms might sometimes be better. When two women decide to have a child, it's usually a well, thought out decision rather than an accident. When a man and woman have a child, often it's unwanted, i.e., an unplanned pregnancy. It's no surprise to anyone that wanted children would have more supportive parents than unwanted children. There's a higher probability of the offspring of a man and a woman having an unwanted child than two woman having an unwanted child.

Having said this, I hope the social conservatives on this board don't interpret this as me saying or advocating that two moms are better than a mom and a father. That's not at all what I'm saying.

[sharkman]

To say that a child who is raised with two loving mothers is going to be exactly the same as one that has a mother father relationship is a crock. Two completely different recipes do not give you the exact same result.

Who said they would be? You are not exactly the same as your neighbour and you both grew up in mom and dad homes.

In fact , havng two moms might mean the kid is better........could that happen? Sure could. And the other way around. Funny thing about kids, there are no guarentees they will turn out great.

Uh, the STUD Y said they would turn out the same.

And, Norman, why don't you provide some links to show how 'often' a couple has an unplanned baby.

[normanchateau]

To say that a child who is raised with two loving mothers is going to be exactly the same as one that has a mother father relationship is a crock. Two completely different recipes do not give you the exact same result.

Who said they would be? You are not exactly the same as your neighbour and you both grew up in mom and dad homes.

In fact , havng two moms might mean the kid is better........could that happen? Sure could. And the other way around. Funny thing about kids, there are no guarentees they will turn out great.

Uh, the STUD Y said they would turn out the same.

"A few studies suggest that children with two lesbian mothers may have marginally better social competence than children in 'traditional nuclear' families."

[normanchateau]

To say that a child who is raised with two loving mothers is going to be exactly the same as one that has a mother father relationship is a crock. Two completely different recipes do not give you the exact same result.

Who said they would be? You are not exactly the same as your neighbour and you both grew up in mom and dad homes.

In fact , havng two moms might mean the kid is better........could that happen? Sure could. And the other way around. Funny thing about kids, there are no guarentees they will turn out great.

And, Norman, why don't you provide some links to show how 'often' a couple has an unplanned baby.

"48 percent of pregnancies in the US are "unplanned." Of those unplanned pregnancies, 47 percent end in abortion, 40 percent are carried to full term, and 13 percent end in miscarriage. Advocates of abortion often argue that to decrease abortions, unintended pregnancies must be reduced through increased access to contraceptives. But the Guttmacher Institute's own research indicates that 53 percent of women who have unintended pregnancies used a contraceptive method during the month they got pregnant."

http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=38639

[sharkman]

Your link reports on a study from Planned Parenthood on American pregnancies, hardly comparable to Canada. Our birth rates are much lower.

Are we not talking about couples having children? Why did you highlight the stats on all pregancies? Married women have very low rates of unintended pregancies, it says.

[normanchateau]

Your link reports on a study from Planned Parenthood on American pregnancies, hardly comparable to Canada.

Do you seriously believe that the Concordia professor's review of more than 100 published studies was based on studies performed in Canada?

[sharkman]

Your link reports on a study from Planned Parenthood on American pregnancies, hardly comparable to Canada.

Do you seriously believe that the Concordia professor's review of more than 100 published studies was based on studies performed in Canada?

You mean it's not? Then that would be even less representative of Canadians.

[normanchateau]

You mean it's not? Then that would be even less representative of Canadians.

So you think any review of the published literature must be limited to research performed in the country which funded the literature review?

Why don't you inform the major Canadian scientific granting agencies, i.e., NSERC, CIHR, NSERC, that they should request that Canadian researchers must duplicate any research study performed in the US involving human subjects? they'll be impressed with your clever idea.

[sharkman]

Your link reports on a study from Planned Parenthood on American pregnancies, hardly comparable to Canada.

Do you seriously believe that the Concordia professor's review of more than 100 published studies was based on studies performed in Canada?

actually, I'm not surprised they didn't bother to study Canadians. After all, this study was commissioned by a Liberal government trying desperately to cram a policy down our throats. Mere details such as whether they did their own research or not wasn't worth considering, as long as they stayed with in the $25,000 chump change the government offered.

[normanchateau]

Your link reports on a study from Planned Parenthood on American pregnancies, hardly comparable to Canada.

Do you seriously believe that the Concordia professor's review of more than 100 published studies was based on studies performed in Canada?

actually, I'm not surprised they didn't bother to study Canadians. After all, this study was commissioned by a Liberal government trying desperately to cram a policy down our throats. Mere details such as whether they did their own research or not wasn't worth considering, as long as they stayed with in the $25,000 chump change the government offered.

This was a review of the published literature. If there were no studies of a Canadian sample, the Conservatives are welcome to fund such a study. They're about as likely to do that as Stephen Harper is not a social conservative.

[betsy]

To say that a child who is raised with two loving mothers is going to be exactly the same as one that has a mother father relationship is a crock. Two completely different recipes do not give you the exact same result.

In fact , havng two moms might mean the kid is better........could that happen? Sure could.

I'm not sure if the professor who wrote the review considered this but here's one possible reason why two moms might sometimes be better. When two women decide to have a child, it's usually a well, thought out decision rather than an accident. When a man and woman have a child, often it's unwanted, i.e., an unplanned pregnancy. It's no surprise to anyone that wanted children would have more supportive parents than unwanted children. There's a higher probability of the offspring of a man and a woman having an unwanted child than two woman having an unwanted child.

Having said this, I hope the social conservatives on this board don't interpret this as me saying or advocating that two moms are better than a mom and a father. That's not at all what I'm saying.

I was an accident. Definitely not planned....especially at their age! But I was never made to feel unwanted. I bet most of us here are actually results of accidents.

But you know what, in Canada today, there's no such thing as an "unwanted" kid. They might say it....but push comes to shove, a lot of unplanned babies become well-loved babies.

If they don't seriously want a child, they simply terminate it. After all, mom would say..."it's MY BODY!"

[betsy]

I'm not sure if the professor who wrote the review considered this but here's one possible reason why two moms might sometimes be better.

They're both stay-at-home moms? Lol.

[normanchateau]

To say that a child who is raised with two loving mothers is going to be exactly the same as one that has a mother father relationship is a crock. Two completely different recipes do not give you the exact same result.

In fact , havng two moms might mean the kid is better........could that happen? Sure could.

I'm not sure if the professor who wrote the review considered this but here's one possible reason why two moms might sometimes be better. When two women decide to have a child, it's usually a well, thought out decision rather than an accident. When a man and woman have a child, often it's unwanted, i.e., an unplanned pregnancy. It's no surprise to anyone that wanted children would have more supportive parents than unwanted children. There's a higher probability of the offspring of a man and a woman having an unwanted child than two woman having an unwanted child.

Having said this, I hope the social conservatives on this board don't interpret this as me saying or advocating that two moms are better than a mom and a father. That's not at all what I'm saying.

I was an accident. Definitely not planned....especially at their age! But I was never made to feel unwanted. I bet most of us here are actually results of accidents.

But you know what, in Canada today, there's no such thing as an "unwanted" kid. They might say it....but push comes to shove, a lot of unplanned babies become well-loved babies.

Betsy, I don't doubt for a moment that you turned out fine despite being the result of an unplanned pregnancy. I also don't doubt that this is true for most unplanned pregnancies. My point is simply that in many unwanted pregnancies, the outcome has negative consequences for the child including parental abuse and neglect, e.g.,

"Attitudes held before the birth of the child, such as negative maternal attitude toward an unwanted or unplanned pregnancy, have also been associated with later maltreatment (Altmeier et al., 1982; Brunquell et al., 1981; Egeland and Brunquell, 1979; Murphy et al., 1985; Zuravin, 1987)."

[BC_chick]

Well, as others are pointing out, this study didn't come up with anything that most people did not know intuitively. Nonetheless, if we come to accept that two moms are better (at times) than a mom and dad, what does that say about two dads?

This information is going to do more harm than it will do good.

[normanchateau]

Well, as others are pointing out, this study didn't come up with anything that most people did not know intuitively. Nonetheless, if we come to accept that two moms are better (at times) than a mom and dad, what does that say about two dads?

Not enough evidence has been collected to answer that question. My prediction is that two dads would still be better than one dad without a mom but it remains an empirical question.

[BC_chick]

My prediction is that two dads would still be better than one dad without a mom but it remains an empirical question.

I agree completely. That's why I followed my question with what I did about this study doing more harm than it will do good. I meant people who are against gay adoption will use its findings against male gay couples.

[jbg]

http://www.canada.com/topics/bodyandhealth...1a1&k=24128&p=1

Nice of them to try to hide information, that we the tax payer paid for, to have ourselves better informed with the truth, eh?!

Nice of the previous government to spend taxpayers' money on such a frivilous study.

How good are same-sex couples at making the children?

On a serious note, I cannot believe that people are willing to experiment with such a fundamental aspect of how children are raised. It makes me ill.

[betsy]

My point is simply that in many unwanted pregnancies, the outcome has negative consequences for the child including parental abuse and neglect, e.g.,

So does the MOTIVE behind some "wanted" pregnancies and adoptions. Children are not promotional tools or accessories to use for photo-ops and rallying.

Some of these lesbian mothers are thrusted into this arena simply because of failed heterosexual marriages/relationships.

How many of these types of lesbian couples have had males involved in the early upbringing of the children (from infancy)...before the heterosexual relationship had disintegrated?

How many of these types of lesbian couples STILL HAVE THEIR MALE EXES partially involved (depending on degrees of involvement and custody terms) in the upbringing of children?

I would say lesbian mothers who've had and still have male exes involved in the upbringing of the children....SHOULD NOT TAKE SOLE CREDIT FOR IT (whether good or bad).

How many of these women who've had failed heterosexual marriages are in confused, desperate, vulnerable states when they've entered into a lesbian relationship? When they've decided to have a pregnancy or adoption?

How many women who were admitted lesbians right from the start had actually sat down and planned a pregnancy or adoption - simply for the sole purpose of wanting to become parents?

WITHOUT ANY ACTIVE ROLES IN Gay Rights Movements? Without any motivation coming from the Gay Rights activists...especially from high profile activists like Rosie O'Donell?

How many of these women had made their decisions to adopt or have "wanted" pregnancies....simply because they bought into the promoted idea? That it's "cool"...."hip"...and so very "now?"

So many questions.

[betsy]

Not enough evidence has been collected to answer that question.

There might be a reason why "not enough evidence has been collected."

Could it be because they don't really want to touch that? Simply because it could prove to be a land mine.

It could explode in their faces and do the agenda more harm than good.

Since there are studies out there pointing to the amount of pedophilia among gays.