Is God poison?

[White Doors]

Why can't the religious advocates get it through their heads that atheism is NOT a belief system, it's the REJECTION OF BELIEF WITHOUT EVIDENCE. How the hell is that a belief? The belief is the leap of faith made by the religious. To have unquestioned faith in something without evidence is the belief and it's incredibly stupid. There's no other word for it. To completely reject logic, evidence and reason is nothing more than moronic.

So to believe in intelligent life living somewhere else in the universe is a belief system or is not?

[White Doors]

F.F.S. we have been in THIS century for a whole seven years -- whatever.

Of COURSE I meant from 1900 to 1999 -- which were certainly NOT the bloodiest/cruelest years in human history.

Go on believing the invisible Daddy will save you from your "sins". LOL

You insult my debating style and everything EXCEPT for the fact that you CANNOT define the difference between a person praying to "G-d" and a person praying to "Ra".

Geez -- insult the messenger because you can't refute the message.

Cheers!

I thought you said you were going to provide proof of your mad ravings this weekend?

Enquiring minds are waiting.

[White Doors]

That's the thing though. On the one hand believers will say "I don't need proof I have faith", but then they get all bent out of shape if you say to them 'Well, okay, but that means your beliefs are not rational.'

They want to have their cake and eat it too.

"Noooo! You're an idiot! The point is they don't NEED proof!"

Don't forget that they're passing on the virtues of irrationality to their children and threatening them with all sorts of misery and torment if they don't comply.

cite?

[Figleaf]

In otherwords, you prefer to target your insult and bigotry towards christians.....understood

If you simply want to expound abusive lies, why bother with the pretense of interaction? Why not just have a mad little blog of your own somewhere and crap-through-your-mouth to your heart's content?

Honestly, did you think your reply had any kind of merit? I explained in a sensible fashion why my comments were valid and neither insulting or bigoted. I addressed the criteria that distinguished religions and philosophies for the purposes of this analysis. Did you respond to either point? No. Did you supply additional fact or perspectives? No. Did you recite your previous view unaltered and couple it with an abusive ad hominem? Yep.

Y'know what, M.Dancer? That was pathetic. You're not 'A' list anymore. "Welcome to my Ignore list."

[M.Dancer]

A faith-based belief is non-rational by definition.

I think by definition, faith based belief system is somewhat redundant.

I'm sure if we wiggle and wriggle a bit, someone could come up with a Non-Faith based belief system......

Anyway.......I think someone is having difficulty understanding the definition of rational, irrational or maybe, ahem....non rational.....

bigotry is irrational that way

[White Doors]

In otherwords, you prefer to target your insult and bigotry towards christians.....understood

This thread (all all the posts within it) are not "targetting" christianity but the concept of an invisible entity -- doesn't matter what you call it (god, allah, buddah, jesus, vishnu).

There is no religion "better" than another.

Woukd you also include love, loyalty, friendship, joy, happiness, relief etc?

They are invisible me thinks.

Still waiting for your 'proof' that the 20th century was peaceful and harmonious.. I think that's how you put it?

[White Doors]

A faith-based belief is non-rational by definition.

I think by definition, faith based belief system is somewhat redundant.

I'm sure if we wiggle and wriggle a bit, someone could come up with a Non-Faith based belief system......

Anyway.......I think someone is having difficulty understanding the definition of rational, irrational or maybe, ahem....non rational.....

bigotry is irrational that way

hahahaha

lovely!

[M.Dancer]

Y'know what, M.Dancer? That was pathetic. You're not 'A' list anymore. "Welcome to my Ignore list."

What makes that funny is it's coming from someone so pretentious, and phoney......

[M.Dancer]

I explained in a sensible fashion why my comments were valid and neither insulting or bigoted.

That's demonstratable false.

[M.Dancer]

Why can't the religious advocates get it through their heads that atheism is NOT a belief system, it's the REJECTION OF BELIEF WITHOUT EVIDENCE. How the hell is that a belief? The belief is the leap of faith made by the religious. To have unquestioned faith in something without evidence is the belief and it's incredibly stupid. There's no other word for it. To completely reject logic, evidence and reason is nothing more than moronic.

So to believe in intelligent life living somewhere else in the universe is a belief system or is not?

Interesting. Spiritual people are the ones asking for proof, the material ones are.

If non athiests say proof isn't necessary, they are told they are "not rational"

What then of 9.11 truthers.....they are rationale? Must be....

[Figleaf]

A faith-based belief is non-rational by definition.

I think by definition, faith based belief system is somewhat redundant.

I'm sure if we wiggle and wriggle a bit, someone could come up with a Non-Faith based belief system......

Anyway.......I think someone is having difficulty understanding the definition of rational, irrational or maybe, ahem....non rational.....

bigotry is irrational that way

...

Classic Dancer... dodge the issue and repeat the slur.

[M.Dancer]

This is the kind of insult and bigotry displayed by figleaf.

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....ndpost&p=217219

[White Doors]

What I find irrational is figleaf thinking anyone would care who is on his ignore list.

[Drea]

Woukd you also include love, loyalty, friendship, joy, happiness, relief etc?

They are invisible me thinks.

Still waiting for your 'proof' that the 20th century was peaceful and harmonious.. I think that's how you put it?

Your reading comprehension skills are lacking...

I said that the last century was the MOST peaceful and harmonious in human history.

Meaning (because you need explanations) that there was LESS cruely and bloodshed (less does not mean "none" -- less means "not as much") than any other time in history.

I am busy today so will not have time for research. And if you've never read a history book, 'tis not my problem, research it for yourself. Try typing "human brutality throughout history" into your search engine. Let me know when you find proof that we live in the worst time in human history...

Oh, so your god is an emotion. Of course this is exactly correct.

God does not exist anywhere except in the mind of the believer. Just as love and hatred do not exist except for in the minds of the people feeling the emotion. I cannot talk to your love or hatred. I cannot feel it or touch it. It only exists to you (like dreams)

Emotions are not tangible items. To the theist, god is more than an emotional feeling -- the theist believes there is an actual being...

And with regard to "believing" in aliens.

We do not have the proof yet but science is still working on it. You never know, maybe they will find your god out there at the outer fringes of the galaxy.

[M.Dancer]

I said that the last century was the MOST peaceful and harmonious in human history.

Meaning (cause you need explanations) that there was LESS cruely and bloodshed (less does not mean "none" -- less means "not as much") than any other time in history.

In that case, you are so wrong as to be embarrassing.......

Starting the century with the boxer rebellion....115,000

moving to the big four....

MOving into the 1st WW...15,000,000plus

Russian Revolution ...9,000,000

2ND WW...55,000,000

Chinese revolution....45,000,000

Ending with THE NEAR MILLION killed in rwanda.....

many estimates of the violent death toll of the 20th centrury near 200 million. That isn't even including famine .........

I would guess that 2nd centrury ad was more harmonious.....even the 19th..........

[Drea]

You've provided no links...

and you only looked at one century.

How many died during the Spanish Iinquisition?

How many died while invading North America?

How many died when India was colonized? South Africa?

How many died when Khan and his hordes were on the march?

How many died when Alexander the great was having his fun?

How many died during the American civil war?

How many died in the time of Joseph Ben Yaweh?

People will kill one another for many reasons (power, economics,) and will continue to do so even when we finally find out that there is no god.

[M.Dancer]

You've provided no links...

and you only looked at one century.

How many died during the Spanish Iinquisition?

How many died while invading North America?

How many died when India was colonized? South Africa?

How many died when Khan and his hordes were on the march?

How many died when Alexander the great was having his fun?

How many died during the American civil war?

How many died in the time of Joseph Ben Yaweh?

People will kill one another for many reasons (power, economics,) and will continue to do so even when we finally find out that there is no god.

Well I thought your claim was the last centrury....links? You need links for common knowledge?

Spanish Inq----10,000......how does that stand against say....Pol Pot?

North America --By the century? Less than WW one

India? Relatively few.

Khan?

US Civil War ---Less than Rwanda

Ben Yaweh?

If you look closely at the wars of the 20th century....yoiu will see that God was hardly involved at all.....if anything, his abscence didn't help.

[Drea]

Got off on a bit of a tangent there when someone stated that we are worse off today (because of secularism) than in the past (because of the belief in god)

But really, humans kill one another for many reasons -- religion being only one of them.

[Rue]

Go on the inter-net and read about this lady;

Dr. Lotta Hitschmanova.

She is proof you can believe in God and do good things and not impose your beliefs on anyone or be evil because you believe in God.

While it does seem easy to find examples of the billions of humans who have used "God" as an excuse to be intolerant, murderous asses, there are those who exist who genuinely used it as their raison d'existence to do good things for others, without imposing their views on those other people or expecting anything back for it. Such people exist. But its harder to find and talk about good people then it is bad ones.

[geoffrey]

She's a bit before my time, but even I know of Lotta Hitschmanova. Great example.

On a much much much smaller scale, I personally would never encourage or push someone towards my beliefs. People find their faith on their own terms best. Coercion shouldn't be part of the game.

[cybercoma]

If you grew up in the Middle East, chances are you would have ended up Muslim. If you grew up in India, chances are you'd be Hindu.

I don't think people "find" their own religion, so much as it's thrown upon them.

[Figleaf]

I don't think people "find" their own religion, so much as it's thrown upon them.

That's very true. Or thrown-up on them.

A very very large proportion of religious adherents are often ignorant of the specific content of the religion they purport to believe. Many Christians, for example, don't know the litany of horror and perversion that comprises much of the Old Testament, and they have no notion whatsoever of the rampant inanities embodied in the letters of St.Paul or the Acts of the Apostles. Many Hindus I have spoken with can name only a fraction of the gods officially in the Hindu pantheon and have no sense of the contents of Hindu cosmology. And don't even get me started on Buddhists!

[White Doors]

Got off on a bit of a tangent there when someone stated that we are worse off today (because of secularism) than in the past (because of the belief in god)

But really, humans kill one another for many reasons -- religion being only one of them.

Yes I would say you did. You displayed your historical ignorance.

My original point stands:

If the human race was at it's most brutal to one another in the century which marked a loosening of theistic belief, it makes it rather difficult to argue that god is poison.

It is much easier to argue that humanity is the poison and more specifically intolerance of others with different beliefs.

And yet here you are mocking people for their beliefs..

[cybercoma]

Religion may not be the cause of horror, but it's certain that it has done absolutely nothing to stop it.

[White Doors]

Religion may not be the cause of horror, but it's certain that it has done absolutely nothing to stop it.

Well that is a sweeping, arrogant statment to make.

Some evil has been done in religions name, for sure - but I would say that religion has done more good than bad in human history.