Should we bring Taliban prisoners to live in Canada?

[blueblood]

Another form of hypocrisy on the left. We are to respect the traditions, cultures, and the way things are done in that god forsaken corner of the world and who are we to interfere in how they do things; and at the SAME time when we hand over prisoners to the authorities to deal with them under THEIR laws, all of a sudden we are to impose Canadian values all of a sudden. What's with the cherry picking?

The fact that the left is more worried about detainees more than our troops is sickening.

The fact that the left takes the word of our enemies over our own troops is even more sickening.

The fact that the left implies that our troops are war criminals is the most sickening of all.

[mikedavid00]

It is not in our best interest to spend our money and resources (from Canadian taxpayers) to house criminals of other nations.

We already do that every day.

[mikedavid00]

The fact that the left is more worried about detainees more than our troops is sickening.

The fact that the left takes the word of our enemies over our own troops is even more sickening.

The fact that the left implies that our troops are war criminals is the most sickening of all.

I completely agree.

That deserves to be in a signature.

I sometimes reference the term 'self hatred'. This is what i'm talking about.

[cybercoma]

Fine. They can live with you. The only benefit I see to that is that a little of life's realities would begin to intrude on your sheltered life. Within a few months you'd be on here screaming about filthy foreign murdering scum and demanding they all be deported.

What a stupid argument.

You believe in tougher laws for people who use firearms in crimes. Our prison system is overburden already, so we're going to make them all live with you.

[mikedavid00]

Fine. They can live with you. The only benefit I see to that is that a little of life's realities would begin to intrude on your sheltered life. Within a few months you'd be on here screaming about filthy foreign murdering scum and demanding they all be deported.

What a stupid argument.

You believe in tougher laws for people who use firearms in crimes. Our prison system is overburden already, so we're going to make them all live with you.

Lol. Our PRISON system is OVERBURDENED??

LOL!!!

OUR IMMIGRATION, HEALTHCARE, HOUSING, INFASTRUCTURE, AND WELFARE STATE IS OVERBURDENED!!!

LOL!!!!!!!

[cybercoma]

Everything is overburdened. We should all build pirate ships and sail the seven seas. Not only will we unburden our nations, but we'll solve global warming at the same time.

[Canuck E Stan]

OK. First of all, I think Dion realized as soon as he said it that it wouldn't work and quickly retracted.

(Great leadership qualities on decision making)

He may lack political savvy, but he really wouldn't go that far.

Nice to have apologists trying to cover up his stupid ass remarks

Secondly, the Liberals supported the war as a knee-jerk reaction to 911,

Says a lot about how they run a country doesn't it?

but our pre-Harper War Machine role was as Peacekeepers.

It was the Liberals before Harper who sent them there

Many nations besides Canada (ie: Liberals, NDP and Bloc of Canada) are questioning their roles and chance of success.

Who has questioned and pulled out

Thirdly, not all Taliban are Terrorists

So there are good Taliban who don't want women to have rights and freedom and education and believe in violence and death to the Afghans, and bad Taliban who don't want women to have rights and education and freedom and believe in violence and death to the Afghans,but the good ones aren't considered Terrorists.

and they still have the support of many Afghans. This will only work if we give the people what they want.

They are not interested in a Western style Democracy, but want a government that respects their culture and religous beliefs.

You had Angus Reid do a poll for you in Afghanistan?

The Cons have jumped on the 'bring the Taliban to Canada' Faux Paus, hoping we will forget their Hill and Knowlton led War. $$$$$$$$$$$$

Okay No Crap, tell us what else your teacher, Taliban Jack has taught you about how fighting for freedom and rights is best by pulling out and leaving the Afghanis to do it on their own by having tea and a chat with the Taliban.

[Fat Freddie]

Then it's settled. Lets give the taliban the HMCS Huron and let them take it for a quick spin in the Whiskey weapons range during the planned sinking. I think you people keep forgetting that these are the people that held executions every Saturday before evening prayers. When things got real boring they brought women who wanted to be educated into the soccer fields and executed them for wanting to think for themselves and not be used as a sperm recepticle and child factor as all Afghan men, in those not so terrorist minded Taliban groups, thought them to be. This is where I have a major difference with the Liberal and NDP membership. I don't care how many we have to kill to rid that country of the scumbags. If the Afghanistan prison system is killing off those who would be part of the problem, so be it. I say line them up two deep so you don't waste to many bullets. We'll need all we gan get to kill the ones that don't go to prison.

[madmax]

Okay No Crap, tell us what else your teacher, Taliban Jack has taught you about how fighting for freedom and rights is best by pulling out and leaving the Afghanis to do it on their own by having tea and a chat with the Taliban.

There is no need to talk to Al Qaida. But talking with the Taliban is recommended by Hamid Karzai and other various forces. Afghans are deal makers. Sometimes they hold sometimes they don't. Money often proves to be an effective tool. Money talks. Right now the operation has a problem of creating more supporters of the Taliban. The Taliban were popular at one time. People are going to back a local and not a foreigner. It is Afghanistan and things don't change much, and most likely won't.

Fighting for freedom is a tabloid statement. Especially when everyone knows that the rights in Afghanistan will be something we will not be able to understand in the west.

Green tea and chats occur with Canadian soldiers on a regular basis as with every other NATO force engaged with Pashtuns.

Each time you kill a Pashtun, whether they deserved it or not, you get a clan to join up against you.

That said, most of this you already have read in the Afghan thread.

As for the prisoners, I have to wonder what Dion is thinking. Is he thinking or just spouting. Regardless, then there is Stephen Harper, with his comments in Parliment. Clearly more tabloid rah rah statements from the Prime Minister. I don't understand it.

Now the media are having a field day with it, showing that everyone knows what will occur when "prisoners" are handed over to the Afghan security forces.

The Taliban aren't as bad as the Nazi Germans of WW2. The Germans were treated in accordance of the Geneva Convention by Western Forces. Afghans, in their wars with the USSR and each other, don't respect these conventions.

At the same time, on the news this morning, they are showing people in the wrong place at the wrong time, whom Canadian Forces rounded up and handed over to Afghanistan Authorities. These people suffered torture etc and have since been released. This one person, still liked the Canadians and realized they made a mistake in rounding him up.

That is about the most positive thing I have seen. We have good people over there.

[madmax]

Then it's settled. Lets give the taliban the HMCS Huron and let them take it for a quick spin in the Whiskey weapons range during the planned sinking. I I don't care how many we have to kill to rid that country of the scumbags. If the Afghanistan prison system is killing off those who would be part of the problem, so be it. I say line them up two deep so you don't waste to many bullets. We'll need all we gan get to kill the ones that don't go to prison.

You talk big.

[betsy]

During WWII we had German POW detention camps in Canada so the idea of Taliban POW detention camps is not out of our line of experience. But there has to be a better way; handing them over to Afghan authorities is obviously something we cannot continue to do without on-going supervision as to their treatment. We cannot be complicit in the torturing of people no matter if they be Taliban or whomever. It's scandalous that we knew about the goings-on and basically did nothing to this point.

German war is quite different than the type of warfare the world is facing now. Not that I'm saying Germans didn't do any atrocities. But it is naive to base decisions now to exactly how it was done sixty years ago.

We didn't see any Germans blowing themselves up...DELIBERATELY and PURPOSEFULLY seeking to kill as many innocent civilians just for SHOCK VALUE.

We didn't see any Germans slowly beheading anyone with a dull knife infront of the cameras....just for SHOCK VALUE.

We didn't see any German soldiers involved in rampant kidnappings, hijacking, storming of buildings, etc.., in exchange for release of prisoners.

The Taliban and the terrorists of today had even included purposefully using children to blow up for the sake of....SHOCK VALUE.

And let's face it. Canadians it seem are those most susceptible to these SHOCK VALUE (as demonstrated by the endless quaking everytime it is reported a soldier died at war). We don't have the stomach for this.

You'll see the endless demand and plea for negotiations and appeasement for the terrorists. Heck, we'll even probably end up justifying terrorism in our own land.

The terrorists will have a field day with us! And we better get ready for endless memorials!

You want to have these people inside our country??? You're willing to take a chance on our own security....just because you think there is some injustice done???

And I bet most of you who are in favor of having these people here were the first one who had suffered mountains of angst at the shootings done in schools! And yet here you are....willingly ready to put our own citizens, not to mention our own children...at risk.

When terrorist start storming our schools and blowing up or beheading our children in exchange for the release of these prisoners....maybe you'll see how stupid this idea is. But of course, it would be too late by then.

[betsy]

OK. First of all, I think Dion realized as soon as he said it that it wouldn't work and quickly retracted.

The keyword is "you think." You don't know anymore than I do what made him retract....if he ever did retract.

Yes, he may've retracted (I don't know anything about that)....but the point is, why did he suggest a stupid thing like that in the first place?

In other words, he mouthed out without really analysing what he's talking about.

Therefore, he could easily act impulsively and irresponsibly...without analysing the possible consequences of his decisions.

That's what's scarey. To have someone at the top doing all the decisions in a knee-jerk fashion....and then saying OOOOPS later....when the damage is done, and it becomes apparent that what he just decided upon was another BOONDAGLE!

[Argus]

Fine. They can live with you. The only benefit I see to that is that a little of life's realities would begin to intrude on your sheltered life. Within a few months you'd be on here screaming about filthy foreign murdering scum and demanding they all be deported.

What a stupid argument.

You believe in tougher laws for people who use firearms in crimes. Our prison system is overburden already, so we're going to make them all live with you.

I believe in just punishment and protection of innocent people. I'm not at ll clear on what, if anything you believe, as you are rarely capable of writing anything in a coherent manner.

[betsy]

It is all the more worrisome to have Dion spouting off suggestions like this....after all, it was Dion who had weakened our anti-terrorist laws. And now he suggests we import these suspects/prisoners here. In our midst.

So soon they'll be walking freely amongst us.

If this is how he'll deal with our enemies in a time of war....just think how he's going to be tough on just regular everyday crimes.

Btw, why is it so easy to believe these allegations of tortures at face value?

Just because there are 30 or more allegations? Even if there are thousands....you tell me it's not highly possible that they were all trained to allege this atrocities to discredit their enemies?

Look at how we react!

In any normal criminal proceedings, the credibility of the witness is taken into serious consideration.

What more with fanatical people fueled by a maniacal desire to impose their belief on society?

[Canuck E Stan]

Thinking of the Taliban as POW's and treating them as such is ridiculious.

The Taliban are not part of any country,or any army,they are only one thing, and that is, they are terrorists. They should be never be given priviledged or better treatment than the treatment they give to their victims.

[geoffrey]

They should be never be given priviledged or better treatment than the treatment they give to their victims.

No, we should treat them with dignity. That's what seperates us for the terrible people that they are.

[noahbody]

It is all the more worrisome to have Dion spouting off suggestions like this....after all, it was Dion who had weakened our anti-terrorist laws. And now he suggests we import these suspects/prisoners here. In our midst.

So soon they'll be walking freely amongst us.

They would be walking amongst us. Canada could never send them back for 'fear' of them being tortured. Maybe they could bunk with the khadrs.

[Fortunata]

You want to have these people inside our country??? You're willing to take a chance on our own security....just because you think there is some injustice done???

Read Betsy read. I know you can if you want to. I specifically said:

But there has to be a better way

And as for the Germans? Yes, they were a wonderful bunch those Nazis. Only exterminated 6 million or so people? And did unspeakably horrific medical and other experiments on them.

The Taliban on the other hand are maniacs compared to the Nazi's? Good thinking.

Now Betsy, what about people rounded up that haven't committed acts of violence toward NATO forces nor their own citizens? Do you think everyone taken in for questioning is a murderer, not one innocent person happening to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, hasn't been detained? What about them betsy?

Most of us in this country do not want to be placed at the same level as the Taliban.

[betsy]

But there has to be a better way

Build Canadian prisons in Afghanistan (as what NDP's floating now as an alternative)? Well I thought NDP wants us out of there pronto? What happens after we leave....even two years from now?

So what would that accomplish?

Liberals and NDP both says: "stop giving the prisoners to the Afghan officials."

They leave no other room. So where do we take these prisoners? To the Canadian military base?

Well then, we need more men to send up there! And more firepower...because that base will surely be a regular target!

All we could do is remind the Afghan officials to adhere to the Geneva Conventions, and continuous monitoring by human rights officials. This is an Afghan war....and it is their country after all. The Afghans had suggested of bringing the prisoners in a main city....where the adherence to the Geneva Conventions can be monitored and implemented more easily.

Our main concern are our own soldiers. The Afghan population know the situation in their own country....know the brutality possible for they've lived it. They know about tortures for it is part of their system! They know what to expect. It is up to them to make sure they do not become suspects of terrorism.

As for those that fall through the cracks that may be innocents, it is sad. But that is the way of war.

We cannot save them all.

[madmax]

Thinking of the Taliban as POW's and treating them as such is ridiculious.

The Taliban are not part of any country,or any army,they are only one thing, and that is, they are terrorists. They should be never be given priviledged or better treatment than the treatment they give to their victims.

Are we to lower our standards to that of the Taliban, Northern Alliance and Afghan Security Forces?

[madmax]

This is an Afghan war....and it is their country after all.

I will agree with this part of your statement.

[betsy]

Are we to lower our standards to that of the Taliban, Northern Alliance and Afghan Security Forces?

Our standards had already been lowered. And without the help of outside forces.

All we have to do is look around us here for the corruptions and endless revelations of shenanigans found mostly in third world countries. Important decisions here are mostly motivated by politicking for populairty votes....financial gain.

Even our own law enforcement agency, the RCMP....is undergoing such eye-opening revelations.

We have our own small groups of insurgents (although they have not yet reached alarming scale), that nobody seems to know how to handle. Or nobody seems to care. Until we start doing the body count...and mounting pressures from the public prod these politicians to get a grip!

Our prison gate is a revolving door. The so-called rights of criminals supercedes that of the rightful rights of victims.

Muslim women in Canada had exposed a letter threatening them of extreme violence should they (the women) pursue the freedom that women normally enjoy in this country. This is what we're supposed to be fighting for in Afghanistan!

Who is doing something about this?

I don't hear anyone....especially the NDP and the Liberals (the so-called, self-proclaimed champions of women, minorities, human rights and equality). Why are they so quiet about this?

Their idea of human rights seem to be out of whacked. They only see and seek to interfere in Afghan detainees for selfish reasons. The detainees make such convenient props for posturing....and all the better since exploiting this situation is like having an ad that's not costing the parties any cent.

[madmax]

Our prison gate is a revolving door. The so-called rights of criminals supercedes that of the rightful rights of victims.

Our prisons have nothing in common with Afghan Prisons holding detainees.

Muslim women in Canada had exposed a letter threatening them of extreme violence should they (the women) pursue the freedom that women normally enjoy in this country. This is what we're supposed to be fighting for in Afghanistan!

Afghanistan is a ISLAMIC state. The laws are/can be stricter then the Taliban. The Northern Alliance has some bad additions in the government. Warlords and Mafia corruption has replaced the Tyranny and Stability provided by the Taliban. Women aren't much better under any circumstance in Afghanistan. Torturing Prisioners isn't going to change womens rights.

This has nothing to do with poor choices of the current government or the past one.

Their idea of human rights seem to be out of whacked. They only see and seek to interfere in Afghan detainees for selfish reasons. The detainees make such convenient props for posturing....and all the better since exploiting this situation is like having an ad that's not costing the parties any cent.

The above statement is very bizarre.

Such ignorant thinking is detrimental to the efforts in Afghanistan. It was such ridiculous and ignorant assumptions that allowed for Abu Ghraib. The events there managed to undermine the US efforts, and demonstrated to normal Iraqis that there wasn't much difference between Saddams torture and US torture.

Unfortuneately the result of the Contract Interogation and 3 stooges. (Bush,Cheney, Rumsfeld)

You wish to follow in these shoes? Harper has pretty much said as much, because of his foolish statements in Parliment, which also support the incompetence of the previous Liberals to address the situation.

Other countries involved in Nato have come up with solutions, what's wrong with ours.

Oh yeah it's just a photo op.

Get real, we (Canadians) are the good guys.

[mikedavid00]

All we have to do is look around us here for the corruptions and endless revelations of shenanigans found mostly in third world countries. Important decisions here are mostly motivated by politicking for populairty votes....financial gain.

Even our own law enforcement agency, the RCMP....is undergoing such eye-opening revelations.

That was an excellent post.

I'm glad someone is noticing what is beginning to happen here in Canada.

[weaponeer]

Okay No Crap, tell us what else your teacher, Taliban Jack has taught you about how fighting for freedom and rights is best by pulling out and leaving the Afghanis to do it on their own by having tea and a chat with the Taliban.

There is no need to talk to Al Qaida. But talking with the Taliban is recommended by Hamid Karzai and other various forces. Afghans are deal makers. Sometimes they hold sometimes they don't. Money often proves to be an effective tool. Money talks. Right now the operation has a problem of creating more supporters of the Taliban. The Taliban were popular at one time. People are going to back a local and not a foreigner. It is Afghanistan and things don't change much, and most likely won't.

Fighting for freedom is a tabloid statement. Especially when everyone knows that the rights in Afghanistan will be something we will not be able to understand in the west.

Green tea and chats occur with Canadian soldiers on a regular basis as with every other NATO force engaged with Pashtuns.

Each time you kill a Pashtun, whether they deserved it or not, you get a clan to join up against you.

That said, most of this you already have read in the Afghan thread.

As for the prisoners, I have to wonder what Dion is thinking. Is he thinking or just spouting. Regardless, then there is Stephen Harper, with his comments in Parliment. Clearly more tabloid rah rah statements from the Prime Minister. I don't understand it.

Now the media are having a field day with it, showing that everyone knows what will occur when "prisoners" are handed over to the Afghan security forces.

The Taliban aren't as bad as the Nazi Germans of WW2. The Germans were treated in accordance of the Geneva Convention by Western Forces. Afghans, in their wars with the USSR and each other, don't respect these conventions.

At the same time, on the news this morning, they are showing people in the wrong place at the wrong time, whom Canadian Forces rounded up and handed over to Afghanistan Authorities. These people suffered torture etc and have since been released. This one person, still liked the Canadians and realized they made a mistake in rounding him up.

That is about the most positive thing I have seen. We have good people over there.

I agree with everything you have said here minus one point, The Taliban aren't as bad as the Nazi Germans of WW2. Actually in some ways they are much much worse. They are very scary, now I don't know if it is the AQ influence, foreign fighters amoung them (there are many) or what it is causing it, but they are savage. The "soft talibs" can be bribed, the hard core idiots.......

To say that we should pay millions to bring these "things" back to Canada is absoulutly irresponsible, it shows that Dion is not fit to govern Canada. He has no interest in the safety of Canadians, he does not take the AQ & talib threat seriously....