Leader defies court order

[Riverwind]

I understand plenty about rights. Gays and Lesbians, Muslins are looking for recognition of their distinct rights to be guaranteed under the Charter but still refused in many cases in the mainstream.

They are looking for _equal_ rights. They are not asking for special rights. There is a huge difference.

Asking that gay relationships be treated the same as hetero marriages is asking for _equality_.

Insisting that natives be exempt from taxes is demanding _inequality_.

Racism begets racism. If you want to a society that is free of racism in the future then you must stop trying create a system that confers special entitlements on people with certain DNA. OTH - if you don't care about racism and you are only interested in protecting native entitlements then you should stop pretending that your are motivated by anything other than greed.

[geoffrey]

I'll tell you what happened when they pulled this type of shenanigans at our man-made lake. Protests for a couple of days. CBC did a little story. The thing is there are a lot of people with not much to do in the winter time after feeding the cows. Long story short, one protest got to the point where the natives were literally chased off the lake leaving their nets behind. 4 RCMP members aren't going to do much against a mile plus long column of pickup trucks with pissed off red necks. As far as I recall, the RCMP told the natives to get the hell off the lake because there wasn't enough cops to protect them and backup was at least a half hour away.

Those that live outside the law hardly have a right to expect protection from that very law.

[betsy]

Any sort of violence instigated by the police I hope the native protesters would match with even deadlier force.

Andrew

Yeah. Like what...making molotove cocktails out of their beer and liquor bottles? Those so-called protests are just an excuse to have their BBQ party! These are the kinds of natives we are supporting financially for life....literally pissing their life away!

And wasting our money.

You can keep justifying and make excuses for their entitlements and their so-called rights....rights that has no more bearing when they go on to trample on the rights of others!

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you!

[White Doors]

We should look to them for the future of environmental successes as ancient knowledge will hold answers to modern ecological failures

haha

Yeah, they did a GREAT job before bad bad whitey got here. haha

Let's see.. made the North American horse extinct? natives - check.

The giant beaver? check. Whooly mammoth. check.

Yes, I'm sure that 'ancient knowledge' will save us all.

LOL

BTW, 'modern ecological failures'? The environment of the western democracies is the best of any other countries in thw world. Damnit when those pesky facts get in the way of your racist rants eh?

[margrace]

It seems strange to me that the people who get upset over Hitler killing off so many people in Europe don't seem to realize the parallels between our killing of the natives. There were millions here in North America before we came.

We managed to almost eradicate them and tried to totally change the rest. What we didn't forsee was that teaching our native peoples to read history was the worst mistake we made. Now they are coming back with the knowledge of what we did to them.

What hypocrites we are.

[White Doors]

Did the first European settelers do bad things? Of course.

Did the natives here do bad things, sure.

Was there a systematic plan to eradicate the natives like the final solution in Nazi Germany?

Not even close. For those that think and say so - they are either being disengenius or have mental problems.

take your pick.

[margrace]

I don't suppose you espouse any religion but maybe you should read up on the native histories.

If you have read your bible how do you explain Jesus saying " Even if you have done this (Evil) in my name you have done it onto me"

[Posit]

"As early as November, 1907, the Canadian press was acknowledging that the death rate within Indian residential schools exceeded 50% (aee Appendix, “Key Newspaper Articles”). And yet the reality of such a massacre has been wiped clean from public record and consciousness in Canada over the past decades. Small wonder; for that hidden history reveals a system whose aim was to destroy most native people by disease, relocation and outright murder, while “assimilating” a minority of collaborators who were trained to serve the genocidal system."

"The term “Final Solution” was not coined by the Nazis, but by Indian Affairs Superintendent Duncan Campbell Scott in April of 1910 when he referred to how he envisioned the “Indian Problem” in Canada being resolved. Scott was describing planned murder when he came up with the expression, since he first used it in response to a concern raised by a west coast Indian Agent about the high level of deaths in the coastal residential schools. On April 12, 1910, Scott wrote,

“It is readily acknowledged that Indian children lose their natural resistance to illness by habitating so closely in these schools, and that they die at a much higher rate than in their villages. But this alone does not justify a change in the policy of this Department, which is geared towards the final solution of our Indian Problem.” (Department of Indian Affairs Superintendent D.C. Scott to B.C. Indian Agent-General Major D. McKay, DIA Archives, RG 10 series)."

Hidden From History - The Canadian Holocaust

[White Doors]

I don't suppose you espouse any religion but maybe you should read up on the native histories.

If you have read your bible how do you explain Jesus saying " Even if you have done this (Evil) in my name you have done it onto me"

What does religion have to do with this? did you take your meds this morning?

[AndrewL]

I support any and all acts of civil disobedience. My support goes out to these natives. Anything that disrupts the status-quo and harms the economic exploitation of the planet is a bonus. I hope they continue this all through the summer.

Andrew

You should have said "is a bogus", not "is a bonus". Seriously, you sound like a traitor or at the very least a self-hater.

I would assume by your world view i would be both.

Andrew

[AndrewL]

Any sort of violence instigated by the police I hope the native protesters would match with even deadlier force.

Andrew

Yeah. Like what...making molotove cocktails out of their beer and liquor bottles? Those so-called protests are just an excuse to have their BBQ party! These are the kinds of natives we are supporting financially for life....literally pissing their life away!

And wasting our money.

You can keep justifying and make excuses for their entitlements and their so-called rights....rights that has no more bearing when they go on to trample on the rights of others!

Talk about biting the hand that feeds you!

Actually i need not make any excuses for native entitilements and rights. They are the only ones with any natural ethical or moral right to this land. Its is you who needs to make excuses for the behavior of the occupier.

Andrew

[AndrewL]

Any sort of violence instigated by the police I hope the native protesters would match with even deadlier force.

I see you have a lot in common with the militias in Iraq.

I see you have a lot in common with slaves.

I don't accept the notion that the state should have a monopoly on violence. And i will never accept the notion that any poeple would ever accept occupation or invasion.

Andrew

[White Doors]

Native American medical treatments such as sweat baths and cold water immersion (practiced in some areas) weakened patients and probably increased mortality rates.[7]

Europeans brought so many deadly diseases with them because they had many more domesticated animals than the Native Americans. Domestication usually means close and frequent contact between animals and people, which is an opportunity for diseases of domestic animals to mutate and migrate into the human population.

(In the colder areas of the Eurasian landmass, houses were often built in two stories. The bottom story was used to stable animals, the top to house humans. In winter, the animal heat would rise and warm the human section of the house. This arrangement is efficient, but it also contributes to disease.)

The Eurasian landmass extends many thousands of miles along an east-west axis. Climate zones also extend for thousands of miles, which facilitated the spread of agriculture, domestication of animals, and the diseases associated with domestication. The Americas extend mainly north and south, which, according to a theory popularized by Jared Diamond in Guns, Germs, and Steel, meant that it was much harder for cultivated plant species, domesticated animals, and diseases to spread.

One contemporary scientist, Rodolfo Acuña-Soto, argues that mortality due to imported diseases was compounded, or even dwarfed, by mortality due to a hemorrhagic fever native to the Americas, which he calls cocoliztli. He claims that this fever was endemic during years of drought, such as the early years of the Spanish invasion of Central America. [1] Acuña-Soto's theory is controversial and not widely accepted.

[White Doors]

Any sort of violence instigated by the police I hope the native protesters would match with even deadlier force.

I see you have a lot in common with the militias in Iraq.

I see you have a lot in common with slaves.

I don't accept the notion that the state should have a monopoly on violence. And i will never accept the notion that any poeple would ever accept occupation or invasion.

Andrew

Well perhaps you can set the good example and beat a hasty retreat to south wales.

[geoffrey]

It seems strange to me that the people who get upset over Hitler killing off so many people in Europe don't seem to realize the parallels between our killing of the natives. There were millions here in North America before we came.

We managed to almost eradicate them and tried to totally change the rest. What we didn't forsee was that teaching our native peoples to read history was the worst mistake we made. Now they are coming back with the knowledge of what we did to them.

What hypocrites we are.

Don't feel so guilty, you and I never did anything to them.

I personally won't be accountable for the actions of people that died many decades before my birth. That's truly the epitome of apartheid style racism... blame one race's ancestors for all the trouble, and then gouge them for all they have.

We had nothing to do with it, and most of the Indians alive today had nothing to do with it. So why are we paying for our ancestors mistakes towards people that no longer exist. It's not rational, and it's certainly racist to even think about paying someone money or giving them rights because they have a select type of DNA.

[Riverwind]

They are the only ones with any natural ethical or moral right to this land.

BS. Anyone born here has a equal moral claim to this land. Anyone who claims otherwise is a racist.

That is why aboriginal rights will always be a source of conflict until they are completely extinguished. Everyone grows up with an intuitive knowledge of what is fair and they know institutively that if they have lived their entire lives in this country then they have a right to be here that is as legitimate as anyone else. Claiming that a certain racial group has a greater claim is not only wrong: it is a vile as the slave trade.

[geoffrey]

I'm actually pretty sure a Nazi argument was the Aryan race's inherent right to the H.R.E., no?

[AndrewL]

Any sort of violence instigated by the police I hope the native protesters would match with even deadlier force.

I see you have a lot in common with the militias in Iraq.

I see you have a lot in common with slaves.

I don't accept the notion that the state should have a monopoly on violence. And i will never accept the notion that any poeple would ever accept occupation or invasion.

Andrew

Well perhaps you can set the good example and beat a hasty retreat to south wales.

Actually my image is one where instead of the occupied being forced to conform to the ways of the occupier, we just reverse it. We would be much better off if, at the very least, we treated the land with the same respect as the natives did before we destroyed them and their culture, just so we could set out to destroy their land.

And if this can't happen either, well i see no reason why i should respect our ways, or cooperate with the destruction.

Andrew

[AndrewL]

They are the only ones with any natural ethical or moral right to this land.

BS. Anyone born here has a equal moral claim to this land. Anyone who claims otherwise is a racist.

We lose any moral right to the land by the way we treat it, we don't gain this right by virtue of just being born on it. Besides, the whole issue of land rights is backwards anyway. We should just recognize that the ecosystem itself has a right to flourish, and no human being has a right to interfere with that.

Andrew

[Riverwind]

We should just recognize that the ecosystem itself has a right to flourish, and no human being has a right to interfere with that.

Any problem with the ecosystem is caused by overpopulation. Are you volunteering yourself for immediate termination in the name of 'preserving the ecosystem'?

[AndrewL]

We should just recognize that the ecosystem itself has a right to flourish, and no human being has a right to interfere with that.

Any problem with the ecosystem is caused by overpopulation. Are you volunteering yourself for immediate termination in the name of 'preserving the ecosystem'?

Over population is a result of our 'civilized' disposition to the land. Overpopulation comes through exploitation for profit without an eye to the long term consequences. Our mode of economy is inherently unsustainable, and is really only focused on how much one can profit. The problem is not originally over population, over population is merely a result of a faulty world view.

Apparently you prefer to just ignore these problems and make really useless glib comments that are meaningless.

Andrew

[Riverwind]

The problem is not originally over population, over population is merely a result of a faulty world view.

It does not change the fact that returning to a 'ecosystem balance' will require the removal of a few billion people.

Apparently you prefer to just ignore these problems and make really useless glib comments that are meaningless.

You are one making meaningless comments like 'We lose any moral right to the land by the way we treat it'.

[White Doors]

Actually my image is one where instead of the occupied being forced to conform to the ways of the occupier, we just reverse it. We would be much better off if, at the very least, we treated the land with the same respect as the natives did before we destroyed them and their culture, just so we could set out to destroy their land.

And if this can't happen either, well i see no reason why i should respect our ways, or cooperate with the destruction.

Andrew

WTF? are you mad? The natives are just people like us. They didn't treat the ecosystem any better and in fact, trated it much worse then we do now.

You are rambling now. You are basing your premise on myths.

Over population is a result of our 'civilized' disposition to the land. Overpopulation comes through exploitation for profit without an eye to the long term consequences. Our mode of economy is inherently unsustainable, and is really only focused on how much one can profit. The problem is not originally over population, over population is merely a result of a faulty world view.

Apparently you prefer to just ignore these problems and make really useless glib comments that are meaningless.

Andrew

Another fallacy. Civilization actually encourages lower birth rates.

Hey, but don't let that stop your self hate.

as you were good leftist soldier!

[AndrewL]

It does not change the fact that returning to a 'ecosystem balance' will require the removal of a few billion people.

So do you think the earth can sustain an unlimited amount of people? Because that is exactly th path we are on. And if the earth can't sustain an unlimited amount of peole do you think it is better to just go on like we do and have them all die in war, disease, famine, and environmental disater? Or do you think it would be better if we changed our subsistence patterns to begin a slow retreat of humans from the planet to a amore manageable level?

You are one making meaningless comments like 'We lose any moral right to the land by the way we treat it'.

How is that a meaningless comment? Do you not think it is wise to include the ecosystem in our ethical system?

Andrew

[AndrewL]

WTF? are you mad? The natives are just people like us. They didn't treat the ecosystem any better and in fact, trated it much worse then we do now.

You are rambling now. You are basing your premise on myths.

Huh? So natives had big corporations whose sole purpose was to extract resources until the reources were no more and then move on to the next batch? Did natives put dams on the rivers that would destroy the salmon? Did natives put toxic chemicals into the air, food, and water? Did natives hunt for sport or for subsistence? Did natives scrape the ocean floors of all sea life? Did they practice agriculture and factory farming? Did they tear down forests so they could build cities and roads? Did they live in nurturing communities or did they live in isolation from their neighbors? Did the natives ever construct gas chambers and commit genocide for no other reason than perverted ideology? And the list goes on and on.... The natives were not people like us and they did treat the ecosytem as if they were a part of it, not separate from it, not with some perverted notion of having dominion over it.

Your post above is possibly the most uninformed and idiotic thing i have read in while. Maybe ever.

Another fallacy. Civilization actually encourages lower birth rates.

Hey, but don't let that stop your self hate.

as you were good leftist soldier!

So what was the population of the globe at the dawn of civilization 8 - 10 thousand years ago? What is the population of the globe now? Did you even think about what you posted?

Wealthy industrial first world states certainly have lower birth rates than the poor parts of civilization, ill give you that one. But are you under the impression that all 6 billion people on the planet can live like we do? Who will we exploit if everybody demands equality? Who will make the cheap garbage that lines the shelves at the supermarket? Where we will get our slave labor? It takes 25% of the worlds resources to make us obese and wasteful in the low birth rate nations that make up only 5% of the worlds population. Where will the resources come from for the other 95% of the people? Where?

Andrew