Privatization of Prisons?

[jdobbin]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/070420/...l/prison_review

The Tory cabinet minister who led Ontario's move toward private jails will head a review of federal prisons, Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day announced Friday.

Rob Sampson was correctional services minister in the Mike Harris government that introduced Canada's first privately run boot camp for young offenders. The institution's contract was not renewed by the current Liberal regime.

Day denied that Sampson's appointment signals a pending foray into American-style super jails run for profit.

"The question of privatization is not on the table," Day told a news conference.

I wonder why they would appoint this guy who is committed to privatizing prisons. He has spoken often on the subject.

[Figleaf]

I wonder why they would appoint this guy who is committed to privatizing prisons. He has spoken often on the subject.

Privatizing prisons should be opposed by everyone.

Creating an industry with a vested interest in higher crime rates is something no responsible government should do. I guess we can count on Steve's gang though.

[PolyNewbie]

Uncle Steve wants to privatize police and prisons, that way his corporate buddies that will end up owning both can simply make more money by arresting more people.

[geoffrey]

Creating an industry with a vested interest in higher crime rates is something no responsible government should do. I guess we can count on Steve's gang though.

They don't need higher crime rates, they just need to build enough prisions to hold all the pedophiles and violent offenders that walk on their first... second... and third offenses.

[blueblood]

Creating an industry with a vested interest in higher crime rates is something no responsible government should do. I guess we can count on Steve's gang though.

They don't need higher crime rates, they just need to build enough prisions to hold all the pedophiles and violent offenders that walk on their first... second... and third offenses.

Imagine outsourcing crappy jobs to prisoners, the sweatshops in china would take a huge hit!! 16 hrs. a day chained to a sewing machine, that's a way to pay debt to society. I can even see the prisons making some money at this.

[jdobbin]

Imagine outsourcing crappy jobs to prisoners, the sweatshops in china would take a huge hit!! 16 hrs. a day chained to a sewing machine, that's a way to pay debt to society. I can even see the prisons making some money at this.

Given how much it costs to build, staff and house prisoners, I doubt that even slave labour will make prisons moneymakers.

[Figleaf]

Creating an industry with a vested interest in higher crime rates is something no responsible government should do. I guess we can count on Steve's gang though.

They don't need higher crime rates, they just need to build enough prisions to hold all the pedophiles and violent offenders that walk on their first... second... and third offenses.

You're missing the point.

[August1991]

Privatizing prisons should be opposed by everyone.

Creating an industry with a vested interest in higher crime rates is something no responsible government should do. I guess we can count on Steve's gang though.

By that logic, medical doctors should be on a fixed salary since they have an incentive to cause sick people.

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Figleaf, what is the difference between a "privatized" service and a "public" service? We hire politicians as our agent to deliver the best government service possible for the amount we pay in tax. How is a bureaucracy within a Ministry of Correctional Services different from a bureaucracy within Correctional Services Inc?

IOW, are we only changing the name of the bureaucracy? What else are we really changing?

For example, Canada's military doesn't build airplanes or cars or operate cafeterias. Instead, government bureaucrats award contracts to private firms. (BTW, who builds and operates the kitchens in Canada's prisons now?)

[jdobbin]

IOW, are we only changing the name of the bureaucracy? What else are we really changing?

For example, Canada's military doesn't build airplanes or cars or operate cafeterias. Instead, government bureaucrats award contracts to private firms. (BTW, who builds and operates the kitchens in Canada's prisons now?)

Doesn't the government contract to build prisons. I don't think they use government construction workers. When Ontario was thinking privatization, they were thinking that the whole kit and caboodle would be private including the prison itself and the staff.

Do you think we could contract out our military to a private company? Do you think the base at Kandahar or any of the bases in Canada could be sold to Halliburton or other companies out there?

Is there any reason to have anything in public hands?

[Wilber]

Creating an industry with a vested interest in higher crime rates is something no responsible government should do. I guess we can count on Steve's gang though.

They don't need higher crime rates, they just need to build enough prisions to hold all the pedophiles and violent offenders that walk on their first... second... and third offenses.

You mean for scumbags like this?

[August1991]

Doesn't the government contract to build prisons. I don't think they use government construction workers. When Ontario was thinking privatization, they were thinking that the whole kit and caboodle would be private including the prison itself and the staff.

Do you think we could contract out our military to a private company? Do you think the base at Kandahar or any of the bases in Canada could be sold to Halliburton or other companies out there?

Is there any reason to have anything in public hands?

What do you mean "public hands"? We pay for it. Is that what you mean?

Dobbin, it's called thinking outside the box.

Within government, there is something called a "special operating agency" (e.g. the passport office). It operates as a State monopoly. It collects its own revenues and covers its costs, returning any "profits" to the government. In Quebec, Hydro-Quebec is a corporation with one shareholder - the government of Quebec.

Given the recent scandals, the RCMP seems to operate like a private corporation without the need to submit bids or seek contract renewals. Halliburton shareholders are jealous.

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To return to the OP, I see nothing wrong in privatizing prisons. I have been inside a private US detention center and I found it well run. Managers were concerned with innovation and seeking better ways to do what they did.

As taxpayers, we should want the best government services possible at least cost. That's how individual Canadians make choices in their own lives. Our government agents should choose the same way. If it happens that a private corporation can do it best, why not?

[jdobbin]

What do you mean "public hands"? We pay for it. Is that what you mean?

Dobbin, it's called thinking outside the box.

Within government, there is something called a "special operating agency" (e.g. the passport office). It operates as a State monopoly. It collects its own revenues and covers its costs, returning any "profits" to the government. In Quebec, Hydro-Quebec is a corporation with one shareholder - the government of Quebec.

Given the recent scandals, the RCMP seems to operate like a private corporation without the need to submit bids or seek contract renewals. Halliburton shareholders are jealous.

----

To return to the OP, I see nothing wrong in privatizing prisons. I have been inside a private US detention center and I found it well run. Managers were concerned with innovation and seeking better ways to do what they did.

As taxpayers, we should want the best government services possible at least cost. That's how individual Canadians make choices in their own lives. Our government agents should choose the same way. If it happens that a private corporation can do it best, why not?

By public hands, I mean prisons that are are operated by the government rather than the private sector.

From the article:

The pricey U.S. experience with private prisons suggests higher rates of return to jail, more in-custody incidents, more escapes and higher staff turnover.

Is this really the best? Aside from your anecdotal experience, are their less escapes from private facilities, more recidivism?

[FTA Lawyer]

Proper management and oversight are the key issues when any public undertaking is involved. Regradless of whether an industry is run by government or by a private owner, the public interest element is not served by the concept of monetary responsibility to shareholders as the only measure of accountability.

That is, if government was only expected to provide the least expensive service when it came to prisons, hospitals, schools, police, fire and EMS etc. etc. then we would not receive the quality of service that we expect / desire. Similarly, turning a prison over to a company policed only by its shareholders' profit motive means a huge risk of poor service (like increased recidivism, escapes, inhumane conditions as mentioned above).

If we can create a private model with sufficient public audit-type accountability, then I don't see how that is fundamentally objectionable, just because it is privatized.

FTA

[PolyNewbie]

With private prisons you get the owners voting for politicians who will make stiffer sentences and laws. Its an instability.

The system only stabilizes when the public takes responsibility for the people it locks up on its own behalf for its protection.

Otherwise you can get prisons taking over in effect, gradually taking more of the economy just like the banks.

Prisons, banks, hospitals, schools, roads, water and electricty should never be privatised. Everything else should (unless I missed one critical to society)

Privatization usually equals monopoly = unanswerable power. Privatization has nothing to do with "free market"

[PolyNewbie]

Stable economic subsytems are needed for economic stability. Otherwise the economy cannot be managed - you get a series of bandaid solutions that never work because the future can never be predicted.