"Grow up!"

[jdobbin]

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index....e=voted+Liberal

I said it other times, unfortunately the search engine sucks.

Maybe you can search with better results.

Prior to 1993 I voted only Liberal.

I have criticized Mulroney(that's why the vote for Chretien).

I have no reason to lie.....I'm not a diehard Liberal......I'm not in denial......

I vote for solutions to issues that I feel are the best answers to problems we have.

I just saw. The search engine does suck though.

Assuming that you vote on issues, don't assume others don't as well. The first election I voted in, I voted based on the deficit. To me John Turner was the person best equipped to address it since he was the last one to run a balanced budget. He was so rusty and a disappointment though and it was not surprising that the Conservatives swept the nation. When Brian Mulroney screwed Manitoba on the CF-18, I looked into the Reform party. While Preston Manning seemed decent enough, the party convention in Winnipeg was filled with wingnuts.

Manitobans were steaming mad and instead of Reform turned to the federal Liberals in a big way in 1988 and again in 2000.

I'm not a social conservative so I never felt comfortable with the Alliance at all. I actually felt a loss when the PCs folded.

[Michael Bluth]

I haven't seen anything he has written but he does seem to post after anything I've written. I told him that I'd rather not get into personalizing things. It would seem from your post and from what others have told me that he has some anger issues with individuals here.

I was generally surprised at Stelmach's reaction on the budget. As far as selling out on principles, I can't recall ever saying that in these forums.

Please don't attack me personally and say you don't read my posts.

I didn't respond in an angry manner at all.

You did agree with the premise of Saturn's post.

[newbie]

Please don't attack me personally...

How about setting an example?

[Canadian Blue]

To be honest, I miss the PC party myself looking back at it. The biggest problem I think was that when the new party came about all of the prominent red tories left. I think they should have stayed in the fold, and should have fought for red tory values instead of simply leaving.

Andre Bachand could have had a very prominent role in Harper's government if he stayed on.

[Topaz]

Harper is doing what his US friends told him to do, keep running down the opposition and soon Canadians will believe anything you say about them! Well, maybe 37% that elected him, but I wonder how many Liberals did change their vote for Harper and how many of them would vote for him now? How many of the Conservative voters that got hit with the "Interest Income" broken priomise will vote for him again. We'll just have to wait until he calls an election and I hope the polls keep going up for him so we can have that election and see if Canadians really support Harper!

[jdobbin]

To be honest, I miss the PC party myself looking back at it. The biggest problem I think was that when the new party came about all of the prominent red tories left. I think they should have stayed in the fold, and should have fought for red tory values instead of simply leaving.

Andre Bachand could have had a very prominent role in Harper's government if he stayed on.

There was some very strong people in the PCs that I miss on the national front. Some provincial red Tories don't seem to be making the jump to federal politics.

On the civic front, I have voted for candidates affiliated with the Liberals, PCs and NDP.

[Michael Bluth]

Please don't attack me personally...

How about setting an example?

The polite respectful tone is the example I set.

[ScottSA]

Harper is doing what his US friends told him to do, keep running down the opposition and soon Canadians will believe anything you say about them!

This is rich, in view of the fact that every Canadian election since 1993 saw the Liberals use the "scary other guy" meme to win elections. Was the US telling them to do that too?

[Michael Bluth]

This rich, in view of the fact that every Canadian election since 1993 saw the Liberals use the "scary other guy" meme to win elections. Was the US telling them to do that too?

No, of course not.

The Canadian Left is far too advanced for that.

It is just a variation on *scary* *scary* *scary*. Such a lack of creativity, tsk, tsk.

[Argus]

To be honest, I miss the PC party myself looking back at it. The biggest problem I think was that when the new party came about all of the prominent red tories left.

I think of it as one of the best things about the new party.

I think they should have stayed in the fold, and should have fought for red tory values instead of simply leaving.

You mean fought for Liberal values.

[jdobbin]

I think they should have stayed in the fold, and should have fought for red tory values instead of simply leaving.

You mean fought for Liberal values.

You mean Progressive values. That was the what the PCs were about Progressive and Conservative.

[Michael Bluth]

You mean Progressive values. That was the what the PCs were about Progressive and Conservative.

Then why has this Government been much more Progressive than Mulroney's?

Anybody remember Brian's remarks about Sven Robinson as Minister of Defence?

[ScottSA]

Progressiveness is in the eye of the beholder. Eugenics used to be considered cutting edgedly progressive in the 1930s, and not just in Germany. In fact sterilization was all the rage in Alberta. The term "progressive" in the context of politics is nothing but a cheap attempt to slather positive normative value on a discredited philosophy.

[Argus]

Yes but - not by you.

Yes, by me. Unlike yourself, I'm not an unbridled cheerleader of one party wrong or right.

Yes, in fact you are. At least on this site.

[Argus]

You did not answer the question. As a Liberal supporter, your accusation that the Tories are acting like Liberals seems a trifle silly. If that were the case one would assume you would hate them less.

I had no sympathy for the stupid tactics of the Liberals when they were in government and used fear to guide their time in office. Nor did I support their over the top spending during the run up to the campaign.

But you voted for them anyway. Again and again and again and again. And now you desperately want them back in power. Even though there is no sign whatever that anything has changed and they will do anything differently.

[jdobbin]

Yes, in fact you are. At least on this site.

You are so full of crap.

[Argus]

But you still always vote for them.

I've voted Liberal because I'm not a social Conservative.

And I vote Conservative because I don't like incompetent government full of self-righteous, crooks.

[jdobbin]

But you voted for them anyway. Again and again and again and again. And now you desperately want them back in power. Even though there is no sign whatever that anything has changed and they will do anything differently.

And you want them to stay out even though there is evidence that the Conservatives are doing the same things you accused the Liberals of doing.

[jdobbin]

And I vote Conservative because I don't like incompetent government full of self-righteous, crooks.

And here I thought it was because you wanted a majority to put in laws on abortion, end gay marriage, bring back the death penalty, end immigration and to ensure that every government job has a Conservative in it.

[Argus]

The Tories now do it as they are the new Liberals of Canada right down to their bloated budget.

Then shouldn't you be happy with them?

Shouldn't you be unhappy with them?

Ha! Yes and no. People presume that because i tend to defend them I am an unbridled supporter of the Tories. I'm not. I am simply, in most cases, responding to what I see as the self-righteous hypocrisy of those who attack them.

What I would like from a Tory government is more effort to solve the health care crisis - and I believe it is a crisis even though it hasn't gotten much press lately compared to the bloody environment. I don't like sucking up to Quebec, or paying out big money to sway voters. I want immigration fixed, and cut back. I want the parole system rebuilt so that parole is limited to those who clearly have made a special effort to reform. And I haven't seen any work on those. At best I give Harper a "C+" so far, though I acknowledge that in a minority he is, to an extent, hamstrung in what he can do and say. And I accept, though I don't like it, the political reality that in order to do things they need to stay in power, and that unfortunately means doing some things they would rather not and putting off some things they'd rather do.

But I see absolutely nothing in the Liberals to indicate they would improve ANYTHING. In fact, from their stance, they would spend even more, waste even more, while not providing competent governance. They have behaved like unadulterated hyprocites and political weasels during their time in opposition. If anything, I dislike them more now then I did when they were in office.

Stephan Dion as PM? God forbid. At least Jack Layton has balls, even if he's an economic illiterate.

[Argus]

Harper is doing what his US friends told him to do, keep running down the opposition

Yes, this is a uniquely American strategy no previous Canadian Prime Minister has ever employed. Prior to Harper all Canadian PMs were exquisitely polite and respectful of the opposition.

[Argus]

I think they should have stayed in the fold, and should have fought for red tory values instead of simply leaving.

You mean fought for Liberal values.

You mean Progressive values. That was the what the PCs were about Progressive and Conservative.

Given the red tories I remember, I don't recall any of them as having what I would consider conservative values in any sense.

[Argus]

And I vote Conservative because I don't like incompetent government full of self-righteous, crooks.

And here I thought it was because you wanted a majority to put in laws on abortion, end gay marriage, bring back the death penalty, end immigration and to ensure that every government job has a Conservative in it.

None of that is particularly high on my agenda other than immigration. I wouldn't even be so against immigration if we got fewer illiterates, criminals, and jihad supporters. I am pro choice, though I do thing there should be some regulation. I am against the death penalty on the plain and simple grounds that I don't trust the competence of the courts - but I would like life without parole, or even life at hard labour, as the Brits do. I don't particularly care about gay marriage either, except that I believe the decision should be made by the people, not be arrogant elitist judges. If they held a referendum and the majority agreed I'd have absolutely nothing to say against it again.

As for Conservatives getting jobs - the only people I care about getting jobs are the competent.

[Argus]

But you voted for them anyway. Again and again and again and again. And now you desperately want them back in power. Even though there is no sign whatever that anything has changed and they will do anything differently.

And you want them to stay out even though there is evidence that the Conservatives are doing the same things you accused the Liberals of doing.

SOME of the same things, but not nearly as many nor to the same extent. Honestly, what are you bitching about that you think would be better if the Liberals got in? Name an issue.

[jdobbin]

Given the red tories I remember, I don't recall any of them as having what I would consider conservative values in any sense.

Bill Davis, Peter Lougheed and Duff Roblin were considered red tories. So were Sir John A. MacDonald, Robert Stanfield and John Diefenbaker.

You think none of these men had had Conservative values?