Budget 2007: prelude to a General Election?

[Michael Bluth]

Only Alberta and Ontario were in '06. Where do you get your facts?

I believe you're right, Geoffrey.

The government of Saskatchewan was a "have not" province in 2006.

Fair enough. In 2005-2006 Saskatchewan was technically "have not". Saskatchewan is always right on the have/have not line. The closest thing to a third category? Middle of the road province?

Source Department of Finance. Link.

2003-04 Officially a 'Have' province. Received ZERO in equalization payments.

2005-06 Officially a 'Have-not' province, barely. They received $82 million in equalization the smallest amount of any 'have not' province by any meaure.

2006-07 Office a 'Have-not' province. They received $13 million in equalization *again* the smallest amount received by any 'have not' province.

Geoff? dobbin? Anyone?

For 2007 - 2008 there are three have provinces: BC, AB and ON. Link

[geoffrey]

2006-07 Office a 'Have-not' province. They received $13 million in equalization *again* the smallest amount received by any 'have not' province.

They reason they are more of a have province is because their resources are now included. Of course one can manipulate the system however one wishes, but under the former standards, Saskatchewan is a have not province. Funny that a Conservative MP would praise his budget?

Saskatchewan was financially hurt by this deal, as was Newfoundland, BC and Nova Scotia. Quebec gained huge, Alberta gained a little (though I insist we pay greatly more than our fair share).

[Michael Bluth]

They reason they are more of a have province is because their resources are now included. Of course one can manipulate the system however one wishes, but under the former standards, Saskatchewan is a have not province. Funny that a Conservative MP would praise his budget?

Saskatchewan was financially hurt by this deal, as was Newfoundland, BC and Nova Scotia. Quebec gained huge, Alberta gained a little (though I insist we pay greatly more than our fair share).

Where do you get your facts?

[jdobbin]

They reason they are more of a have province is because their resources are now included. Of course one can manipulate the system however one wishes, but under the former standards, Saskatchewan is a have not province. Funny that a Conservative MP would praise his budget?

Saskatchewan was financially hurt by this deal, as was Newfoundland, BC and Nova Scotia. Quebec gained huge, Alberta gained a little (though I insist we pay greatly more than our fair share).

I agree with you Geoffrey. Someone was going to be unhappy with the equalization no matter what. One thing is clear though, Harper made certain promises to the provinces about what he was going to do in the election. Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and Saskatchewan aren't pulling this anger out of their butts. They were led to believe the promise.

I don't think you will be able to convince paid Tory workers of that though. Past Tory voters like yourself, however, know what you heard and know what was promised.

[blueblood]

They reason they are more of a have province is because their resources are now included. Of course one can manipulate the system however one wishes, but under the former standards, Saskatchewan is a have not province. Funny that a Conservative MP would praise his budget?

Saskatchewan was financially hurt by this deal, as was Newfoundland, BC and Nova Scotia. Quebec gained huge, Alberta gained a little (though I insist we pay greatly more than our fair share).

I agree with you Geoffrey. Someone was going to be unhappy with the equalization no matter what. One thing is clear though, Harper made certain promises to the provinces about what he was going to do in the election. Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and Saskatchewan aren't pulling this anger out of their butts. They were led to believe the promise.

I don't think you will be able to convince paid Tory workers of that though. Past Tory voters like yourself, however, know what you heard and no what was promised.

the thing is all gov'ts break their promises as they can't cater to everyone, the tories went for the majority (although pissing off Williams isn't too bright). I'm a big tory fan, but this wasn't that good of a budget.

[Michael Bluth]

the thing is all gov'ts break their promises as they can't cater to everyone, the tories went for the majority (although pissing off Williams isn't too bright). I'm a big tory fan, but this wasn't that good of a budget.

Fair point. It's tough to keep all your promises. In reality it was a promise that shouldn't have been made. Better not to commit another error and compound the mistake. But you'll never convince bitter, pseudo-intellectuals with an inflated sense of their own worth of that.

I think pissing off Danny Williams wasn't that big a deal. Williams asks for too much in return for his actual worth and influence.

[jdobbin]

the thing is all gov'ts break their promises as they can't cater to everyone, the tories went for the majority (although pissing off Williams isn't too bright). I'm a big tory fan, but this wasn't that good of a budget.

The budget represented a 14% increase in government going into the second year of the Tories in power.

They are already making new billion dollar announcements that were not in the budget. I wonder how long Tory fans will accept this type of free wheeling spending.

[Michael Bluth]

The budget represented a 14% increase in government going into the second year of the Tories in power.

They are already making new billion dollar announcements that were not in the budget. I wonder how long Tory fans will accept this type of free wheeling spending.

No this budget doesn't represent that.

What are the options of "Tory fans" at this point? Even more free wheeling spending under the Liberals?

[gc1765]

What are the options of "Tory fans" at this point? Even more free wheeling spending under the Liberals?

Ummm that means the Liberals spent 14% less than what the Conservatives are currently spending. So why are you implying that the Liberals spend more?

[blueblood]

What are the options of "Tory fans" at this point? Even more free wheeling spending under the Liberals?

Ummm that means the Liberals spent 14% less than what the Conservatives are currently spending. So why are you implying that the Liberals spend more?

What if the Liberals/NDP were in the PMO right now, what would the budget look like? I'd wager a guess in that there would be a lot of spending and sky high taxes.

[gc1765]

What if the Liberals/NDP were in the PMO right now, what would the budget look like? I'd wager a guess in that there would be a lot of spending and sky high taxes.

We've seen what the Liberals have done in power, and we have seen how they spent 14% less than what the Conservatives are currently spending. Unless of course you would rather base your opinions on pure speculation, rather than what the Liberals have done in their 13 years of power.

[jdobbin]

What if the Liberals/NDP were in the PMO right now, what would the budget look like? I'd wager a guess in that there would be a lot of spending and sky high taxes.

I think the proof in the pudding is that previous Liberal budgets were not as big as the ones the Tories have introduced.

Is it going to take eight years as in the Mulroney era for Conservatives for today's Conservatives to realize Harper is outspending the worst of Liberal budgets?

[Michael Bluth]

Ummm that means the Liberals spent 14% less than what the Conservatives are currently spending. So why are you implying that the Liberals spend more?

Not a matter of implication. It's a matter of what they Liberals said they would do.

According to the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, in the first few weeks of November 2005 the Liberals announced $24.5 Billion in new program spending. This was 15% of program spending for a year. Seems like the Conservatives raising spending by 14% in two years means they have raised program spending half as much as the Liberals *said* they would have.

Anybody deny the Liberals made those promises?

[gc1765]

According to the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, in the first few weeks of November 2005 the Liberals announced $24.5 Billion in new program spending. This was 15% of program spending for a year. Seems like the Conservatives raising spending by 14% in two years means they have raised program spending half as much as the Liberals *said* they would have.

Anybody deny the Liberals made those promises?

Do you have a link?

[Michael Bluth]

According to the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, in the first few weeks of November 2005 the Liberals announced $24.5 Billion in new program spending. This was 15% of program spending for a year. Seems like the Conservatives raising spending by 14% in two years means they have raised program spending half as much as the Liberals *said* they would have.

Anybody deny the Liberals made those promises?

Do you have a link?

Sorry no link. Read it in a book.

Right Side Up by Paul Wells. pp 160 to 161.

[blueblood]

What if the Liberals/NDP were in the PMO right now, what would the budget look like? I'd wager a guess in that there would be a lot of spending and sky high taxes.

I think the proof in the pudding is that previous Liberal budgets were not as big as the ones the Tories have introduced.

Is it going to take eight years as in the Mulroney era for Conservatives for today's Conservatives to realize Harper is outspending the worst of Liberal budgets?

Uhh, Trudeau included who put us in the deficit position in the first place, at least Harper won't run a deficit.

[jdobbin]

Uhh, Trudeau included who put us in the deficit position in the first place, at least Harper won't run a deficit.

And Martin got Canada out of the deficit.

[Michael Bluth]

Uhh, Trudeau included who put us in the deficit position in the first place, at least Harper won't run a deficit.

And Martin got Canada out of the deficit.

Paul Martin was one of Canada's greatest Finance Ministers and worst Prime Ministers.

He was able to balance the budget in large part thanks to the PCs running an operating surplus, signing the FTA and NAFTA, and making the regulatory changes that made the boom of the 90s possible.

[jdobbin]

Saskatchewan Premier blasts Harper.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/070404/...harper_division

Prime Minister Stephen Harper's drive to win seats in certain parts of the country has left Canada more divided than it ever has been in recent history, Saskatchewan Premier Lorne Calvert said Wednesday.

Calvert was responding at the legislature to ads Conservative MPs have begun running in Saskatchewan saying the province was a big winner in last month's budget.

And here is what Calvert is unhappy about.

Calvert is angry with the federal Conservatives over what he says is a broken promise.

During the last election, the Conservatives pledged to remove non-renewable resource revenues from the way equalization payments to the provinces are calculated.

It's a change that would mean $800 million for oil-rich Saskatchewan, according to provincial calculations.

In last month's budget, the Conservatives allowed the provinces the option of removing all natural resource revenues from equalization, but put a cap on the program so that no recipient province will end up with a fiscal capacity greater than a province which doesn't receive equalization.

The revamped formula means Saskatchewan will get $226 million in equalization this year and nothing next year, Calvert contends.

[jdobbin]

Calvert was on Question Period today.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/stor...?hub=TopStories

Much like Williams' current campaign, Calvert said he is working to convince people in Saskatchewan that the Conservatives -- a party that holds 12 of 14 federal seats in the province -- have let the province down.

"The people of both of our provinces have been promised by this prime minister and this Conservative government that when it comes to the calculation of equalization we would see 100 per cent of our non-renewable natural resources revenues excluded, so we would stop sending these revenues from the province to other parts of Canada," Calvert told CTV's Craig Oliver, co-host of Question Period.

Sounds like at least three premier will doing their best to unseat 16 Conservative MPs.

[geoffrey]

Is it going to take eight years as in the Mulroney era for Conservatives for today's Conservatives to realize Harper is outspending the worst of Liberal budgets?

Took me three months. I was even considering voting Liberal because of the spending. And then they chose Dion. Silly Liberals. Silly Conservatives. Neither will now get my vote in an election (sparing some amazing turn around by either Harper or Dion... but it'd have to be HUGE).