Tory Spy of Dion Caught on Video

[Keepitsimple]

I found it a funny video because nothing really looks "clandestine". He certainly didn't "beat a hasty retreat" as new articles suggested. In fact, he didn't seem to care about the fact he was on film at all - even playfully recording the filmer. Liberals are desperate to find any story that might gain some traction - anything to be able to get back to the "Conservatives are an angry, mean-spirited bunch who are out to wreck the country" line. As more and more Canadians are finding out - that tired old tag-line has finally been proven to be wrong. When the upcoming budget is presented, you'll see that in a little more than a year, Conservatives will have done more for the poor, more for Seniors, more for families, more for government accountability and more for the environment than the Liberals did in their 13 years in power - including back-to-back majorites. Balancing the budget on the backs of the provinces may have been a worthwhile endeavour - but that was 10 years ago. What have they done for us lately? Hard to see anything of substance.

[madmax]

There is nothing uplifting about any of the comments above. Neither of these parties are able to stop playing games with one another. Neither of them treat the government with any respect. Both of these parties use government services and spend money as if their entitlements come first and their partizanship comes first.

Once again, there is only one loser in this. The voter.

[jdobbin]

Each MP is entitled to several paid staff at government expense and each party with official status is entitled to taxpayer financed budgets for research and other activities.

These staffers are employed in party work. It is not illegal for someone to go to a public partisan event and I assume it's not illegal to video the event.

What law has been broken?

It isn't illegal. It just smells funny.

[BubberMiley]

Governments have been keeping tabs on leaders of other parties by various means since politics began.

That's not true. Governments do not engage in partisan politics. It's not common, and when it does happen, it's illegal. CPCers talk a good game on corruption, but they don't even seem to know what it is.

[Catchme]

For example the Liberal Party president attended the last Conservative convention. Was he spying on the Conservatives. Of course, you need to know what the competition is up to and if they have good ideas, steal them.

The Liberal party president doesn't work for the House of Commons.

Try to get things straight. Party worker is not the same as government worker.

What next? Getting the RCMP to throw the election?

They already did that too!

You can bet if the Liberals ever did this, there would have been CPC and their apologists screaming from the roof tops about abuse of tax payer dollars by the government for personal partisanship gains.

[August1991]

Governments do not engage in partisan politics. It's not common, and when it does happen, it's illegal.

WTF? Governments don't engage in partisan politics?

I think the problem here is how you define "government" and how you define "party". I suggest you take a new view of government.

No senior politician meets a journalist without having a staffer record the conversation. They want their own record of what exactly was said and want to keep the journalist honest.

From there, it's a short step for an opposing political party to want to have its record of what was said.

These are public events. The Conservatives are right to record what Dion says.

As to the origin of this guy's salary, there is nothing wrong but purely on grounds of perception, it would be better if he were a party-paid staffer.

BTW, this is an old story. In the 1960s, the Liberals' "Truth Squad" followed Diefenbaker around, recording what he said to point out his lies.

Once again, there is only one loser in this. The voter.

Would you prefer that the two parties united or worked together in a non-partisan atmospehere of solidarity?

Modern democracy requires a viable alternative government-in-waiting.

[jdobbin]

These are public events. The Conservatives are right to record what Dion says.

As to the origin of this guy's salary, there is nothing wrong but purely on grounds of perception, it would be better if he were a party-paid staffer.

The Tories were playing gotch politics. This time the gotcha was on them.

With the advent of Youtube, I expect that each party will be filming each filming each other. Welcome to Citizen Journalism.

What the Tories did in this case has the same air of desperateness that the Liberal supporters had when they followed Harper screaming and yelling in past election.

[Michael Bluth]

That was great. A House of Commons employee yet. If this is any indication, the Liberal advertising team has improved dramatically from the last election.

His card is from the Conservative Resource Group. That is part of the Conservative Party of Canada and not the House of Commons.

He is not a House of Commons employee.

So pesky those facts. Anybody know who posted those lies?

What the Tories did in this case has the same air of desperateness that the Liberal supporters had when they followed Harper screaming and yelling in past election.

You'd think a man with your solid background as a past candidate and as an esteemed community college lecturerl you would know that the correct adjective is desperation.

When the Liberals try and put forth the lie that Dion's English is passable now, those videos will prove it wrong.

[Figleaf]

Harper always struck me as a sort of a Nixon figure.

This certainly strikes a chord. With all his centralizing, micro-controlling, and conniving it's a close fit.

[Michael Bluth]

This certainly strikes a chord. With all his centralizing, micro-controlling, and conniving it's a close fit.

Comparing Harper to Nixon strikes a chord because you don't like Harper.

You can't come up with valid criticisms so you agree with a weak comparison to Richard Nixon.

Any comment on the lies on the You Tube video?

[Canuck E Stan]

Any comment on the lies on the You Tube video?

No lies on the you tube video.

I saw it with my own eyes.

Dion was doing what he does best ...........flippin'.

[jdobbin]

No lies on the you tube video.

I saw it with my own eyes.

Dion was doing what he does best ...........flippin'.

I saw it with my own eyes too on income trusts! Flip flop!

[Michael Bluth]

I saw it with my own eyes too on income trusts! Flip flop!

So dobbin you admit the video was a lie? Admit that the Conservative they taped isn't a House of Commons employee...

[Figleaf]

This certainly strikes a chord. With all his centralizing, micro-controlling, and conniving it's a close fit.

Comparing Harper to Nixon strikes a chord because you don't like Harper.

For many of the same reasons I didn't like Nixon.

You can't come up with valid criticisms so you agree with a weak comparison to Richard Nixon.

I can, and have, come up with numerous valid criticisms. (For example, reprocessing tax money for the child benefit is stupid. )

The reason I agreed with the Nixon comparison is that it fits.

Any comment on the lies on the You Tube video?

What lies?

[Michael Bluth]

What lies?

James Murray is not a House of Commons employee.

There are no tax dollars involved in paying his wages.

The Conservative Resource Group is funded by the Conservative Party of Canada. Thus he is paid with Conservative Party of Canada funds.

So sorry, those are two lies.

[Figleaf]

What lies?

James Murray is not a House of Commons employee.

There are no tax dollars involved in paying his wages.

How do you know?

[Argus]

And you know this because of your long, in-depth research on the subject, yes?

I know this because it's illegal to send government employees to do political work. Whether other governments have done such illegal activities, I have not heard. Have you?

Yes, as a matter of fact. The Liberals did it. Not only did Chretien and Martin and assorted cabinet ministers use their government paid aides for political work but, as you will no-doubt recall, they had various people, such as advertising people and lawyers do free work for them during election campaigns and then rewarded them afterwards with government money and judgeships.

[jdobbin]

How do you know?

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news...b7bec47&k=86182

Sparrow refused to explain why Murray’s activities were being paid out of the House of Commons research budget rather than party coffers.

[jdobbin]

Yes, as a matter of fact. The Liberals did it. Not only did Chretien and Martin and assorted cabinet ministers use their government paid aides for political work but, as you will no-doubt recall, they had various people, such as advertising people and lawyers do free work for them during election campaigns and then rewarded them afterwards with government money and judgeships.

And now the Tories are doing it too? That is your justification?

[Figleaf]

How do you know?

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazette/news...b7bec47&k=86182

Sparrow refused to explain why Murray’s activities were being paid out of the House of Commons research budget rather than party coffers.

So, Mr. Bluth was either ignorant or lying profoundly mistaken about this.

[madmax]

He is not a House of Commons employee.

So pesky those facts. Anybody know who posted those lies?

Are you certan they are lies? Do you have proof he is not a house of commons employee. Why is Canada.com Lying?

[jdobbin]

Are you certan they are lies? Do you have proof he is not a house of commons employee. Why is Canada.com Lying?

More from the Montreal Gazette:

Reached yesterday, Murray’s sole response when informed about the video was, “Oh, s--t,” before referring all questions to Conservative Party communications officials.

A Tory spokesperson made no attempt to deny Murray had been following Dion, or to make any apology for it.

I expect there will be no apologies at all even when some Tories are caught in a lie.

[Figleaf]

I expect there will be no apologies at all even when some Tories are caught in a lie.

Kind of like when it became obvious that Harper knew the Gurmant Grewal tapes were doctored, but he still accused the Liberals of wrongdoing? Or when he accused the Liberals of supporting pedophilia? Or when he kept pushing false ads about Ralph Goodale even after he was cleared? Or when he screwed investors out of multiple millions by lying about income trusts? Or even way back when he enticed Pinocchio Mackay into turning liar on the no-party merger promise.

[jdobbin]

Kind of like when it became obvious that Harper knew the Gurmant Grewal tapes were doctored, but he still accused the Liberals of wrongdoing? Or when he accused the Liberals of supporting pedophilia? Or when he kept pushing false ads about Ralph Goodale even after he was cleared? Or when he screwed investors out of multiple millions by lying about income trusts? Or even way back when he enticed Pinocchio Mackay into turning liar on the no-party merger promise.

I wonder how MacKay will deal with May. Ask what her connection to Clinton really is?

[Michael Bluth]

So, Mr. Bluth was either ignorant or lying profoundly mistaken about this.

Please don't call me ignorant or a liar you a**hole or misinformed party hack.

That Montréal Gazette article was biased. A "catchy" tune? Adds unnecessary bias to this.

The Grewal tapes were never proven to be doctored.