Progressive Conservative vs Conservative

[Topaz]

Can anyone tell me the difference between the two? Is it, that the Conservatives are more Alliance in their thinking? Since there's more former Alliance members in Harper's govt, would that explain their behaviour in Parliament or is it a "generation" behavior problem??

[BC_chick]

Can anyone tell me the difference between the two? Is it, that the Conservatives are more Alliance in their thinking? Since there's more former Alliance members in Harper's govt, would that explain their behaviour in Parliament or is it a "generation" behavior problem??

Sure.

A fiscal conservative wants less government in economic matters, while a social conservative wants more government involvement in social affairs.

A progressive conservative is an oxymoron.

Just kidding.... a progressive conservative is typically fiscally conservative yet socially liberal.

[geoffrey]

Just kidding.... a progressive conservative is typically fiscally conservative yet socially liberal.

Essientially being a Jean Chretien/Paul Martin era Liberal.

[jbg]

A progressive conservative is an oxymoron.

Just kidding.... a progressive conservative is typically fiscally conservative yet socially liberal.

In the case of the parties, both the old PCPC and the new CPC appear to some extent to be coalitions of varying views. I suspect the CPC is more oriented towards "less Ottawa, more provinces" than the old PCPC, and more oriented to individual rights and responsibilities.

I think that the term "progressive conservative" without the party label should mean "conservative" in the Ronald Reagan sense, in other words, conservatism without the bigotry, without the flaming crosses.

[Mad_Michael]

A progressive conservative is what used to be known as 'red tory' or a 'pink tory'. It has been suggested that this represents Canada's ONLY unique contribution to the field of political philosophy.

No less a figure than our founding father of Sir John A. MacDonald is the prototype of this type and a great many famous Canadian politicians fall exactly into this mode of classification (notably Laurier, King, St.Laurent, Pearson, Clark, Turner, Chretien and Martin. All were 'progressive conservatives' in a general sense. Trudeau and Mulroney were strong liberals with no real conservative tendencies at all. Diefenbaker was the most actually conservative PM we've ever had).

As mentioned above, fiscal conservative/social liberal is a good description of this type, but it is not the only one as it fails to capture the pramatic conservative approach that this type is known for. For example, Sir John A. MacDonald's trans-Canada railroad policy was decidedly not ideologically conservative (indeed, it is anti-conservative in ideological terms). Thus, progressive conservatives are pragmatic conservatives - that is to say, inclined to conservatism, but never married to conservative ideology.

In many ways, the US attempt to create something called "compassionate conservativism" is a similar approach (though mostly a failure in application - producing a new two-headed monster of 'fiscally reckless social conservative' of which Reagan was the precursor of this type).

[Big Blue Machine]

Progressive Conservatives hold power longer....

[Argus]

Can anyone tell me the difference between the two? Is it, that the Conservatives are more Alliance in their thinking? Since there's more former Alliance members in Harper's govt, would that explain their behaviour in Parliament or is it a "generation" behavior problem??

Liberals afraid to say so. With just as little honour, integrity and vision.

[Michael Bluth]

Since there's more former Alliance members in Harper's govt, would that explain their behaviour in Parliament or is it a "generation" behavior problem??

What is the behaviour problem???

[Figleaf]

Well, there is both a historical answer and a political answer.

Historically:

Progressive Conservative was the political party that resulted from the merger in 19whocares of the Conservative Party with the Progressive Party, in a political realignment of forces not totally unlike the much later merger of the Progressive Conservative Party with the Canadian Alliance party in 19someoneelsewillknow. This later merger resulted in the Conservative Party of Canada.

Politically:

The Progessive Conservative Party was a brilliant oxymoron which allowed the moderate right in Canada to project reasonable pragmatism without rashly abandoning the psycho-philosophic state of toryness. That is, they made themselves capable of competing with the Liberals for the center.

Today's Conservative Party -- after the dialogue and dashing about, after the lightning, after Frankenstein's monster lumbers from the room to terrorize the village -- is the thing that crawls from the pile of leftover parts. Lacking a brain or a heart, without internal cognition or coherent motivation, it has a pseudolife emobodying the fantasies of the resentful right and pulling levers for the masters that feed it.

Having no hope, interest, or concept of competing for the political center, the CPC utilizes wedge tactics to fool voters into misperceiving their interests; an effort (like the Republicans in the US) to prove Lincoln wrong.

[jbg]

No less a figure than our founding father of Sir John A. MacDonald is the prototype of this type and a great many famous Canadian politicians fall exactly into this mode of classification (notably Laurier, King, St.Laurent, Pearson, Clark, Turner, Chretien and Martin. All were 'progressive conservatives' in a general sense. Trudeau and Mulroney were strong liberals with no real conservative tendencies at all. Diefenbaker was the most actually conservative PM we've ever had).

What about Campbell?

[daniel]

The party that currently calls itself the Conservatives might as well go through another in their many name changes. This time they should call themselves the Liberals.

After all, having governed most of the 2006 enacting their own doctrines, they've only found out on December 3rd to reverse their declining popularity they have to ditch their own postitions and adopt Liberal policies instead.

And it's worked.

They've now:

collaborated with the NDP

turned green and turned pro-Kyoto;

thrown money at Quebec;

thrown money at the cities;

thrown money at the farmers;

Questioned bank fees;

What's left to do is to re-instate the following:

the Kelowna Accord;

the Liberal Universal Daycare Program

say anything to get elected.

Wonder how it feels to be a conservative these days. To gain acceptance you have to deny your true identity.

Mike Harris and Tony Clement must be spinning in their graves.

[Michael Bluth]

Wonder how it feels to be a conservative these days. To gain acceptance you have to deny your true identity.

It feels great. The good Conservatives are doing in government and can see a majority government in the near future is a great feeling of satisfaction and accomplishment.

Winning moral victories is for chumps. Too bad it took the Canadian right so long to figure it out.

The only "identity" being denied is the false identity the Liberals painted the Conservatives with when using their scare tactics to win the post 1993 elections.

The Canadian people are liking good honest Government and the Conservatives are proud to provide it to them. 13 years was too long to wait...

[daniel]

...

It feels great. The good Conservatives are doing in government and can see a majority government in the near future is a great feeling of satisfaction and accomplishment....

So you do realize that as soon as the government implements conservative policies, they'll fall out of favour again. Feels good to know that to have good government, they have to be Liberals, huh?

[Michael Bluth]

So you do realize that as soon as the government implements conservative policies, they'll fall out of favour again. Feels good to know that to have good government, they have to be Liberals, huh?

Cutting the GST. Conservative policy

Choice in childcare. Conservative policy

Restoring funding to our military. Conservative policy

Honesty and integrity in Government. Conservative policy. *Definitely not a Liberal policy*

Environmental action that is fair to all regions of the country. Conservative policy.

Seems like the Conservatives have implemented a number of conservative policies and they are poised to win a majority.

Does it really feel that bad to be a Liberal that you have to delude yourself into thinking a pragmatic centre-right Government is a Liberal government?

[Argus]

...

It feels great. The good Conservatives are doing in government and can see a majority government in the near future is a great feeling of satisfaction and accomplishment....

So you do realize that as soon as the government implements conservative policies, they'll fall out of favour again. Feels good to know that to have good government, they have to be Liberals, huh?

The government is implementing conservative policies and priorities. It is, within the context of a minority government, putting a priority on national security, on national defense, and on justice and crime issues which the liberals completely ignored. It is providing honest, able government which the Liberals were incapable of. It is keeping patronage to a minimum and not letting it rule every decision.

It is not walking about in a hair shirt proclaiming only the God's honest truth. It has learned from the Liberals that honesty does not bring much of a reward in politics. Global warming is a perfect example. The Liberals never cared about the global warming, but pretended they did. Now the Tories, who don't particularly care about global warming either, are pretending to do something about it too. That is the way to electoral success in Canada. Pretend to care about things whether you do or not.

All you lefties are just bitching and whining that the Conservatives have stolen your time-honoured tactics.So by paying lip service to such things the Tories can gain popularity, while getting on with the business of providing honest, capable government that doesn't stick its nose into other people's business too much.

Which is all I really want.

[Michael Bluth]

All you lefties are just bitching and whining that the Conservatives have stolen your time-honoured tactics.So by paying lip service to such things the Tories can gain popularity, while getting on with the business of providing honest, capable government that doesn't stick its nose into other people's business too much.

Which is all I really want.

The Government has been honest and capable so far. Canadians believe it and that is showing up in the polls.

Yes, Harper is a brilliant tactician. That is what it takes to be a successfuly Federal leader. Trudeay, Mulroney and Chrétien all had those skills. Martin, Clark, Turner and Campbell didn't. That's why they all served for such a short time.

[Figleaf]

...Choice in childcare. Conservative policy

Idiotic doublespeak term for a hare-brained moneywasting policy.

Honesty and integrity in Government. Conservative policy.

Actually, Paul Martin made such an initiative as well.

In fact, it's curious that the Conservatives would try to claim this ground, given:

-Peter MacKay's history of lying,

-Stephen Harper's use of the doctored Gurmant Grewal tapes

-continuing false advertisements against Ralph Goodale after the RCMP cleared him

-the lie that cost investors billions on investment trusts.

Environmental action that is fair to all regions of the country.

I.e. None, to date.

[daniel]

If you check the timeline, these were enacted mid-year 2006:

Cutting the GST. Conservative policy.

Conservative ratings - down

Choice in childcare. Conservative policy.

Conservative ratings – down. Some choice: Stay at home or stay at home.

Restoring funding to our military. Conservative policy.

Conservative ratings – down

Honesty and integrity in Government. Conservative policy. *Definitely not a Liberal policy* .

Not a Conservative one either. Have you heard about that fundamental breach of contract that begat your party?

Environmental action that is fair to all regions of the country. Conservative policy.

If you are referring to Clean Air Act that’s being modified since December 3rd – hmmmm.

All you lefties are just bitching and whining that the Conservatives have stolen your time-honoured tactics. .

Would have thought the Conservatives would be doing the bitching since they would have expected their own government not to act the same way. So it only goes to show you, to gain widespread acceptance, you have to be Liberal – not Conservative. But this next response explains it all:

Winning moral victories is for chumps. Too bad it took the Canadian right so long to figure it out.

Very revealing. But spoken like a true Mulroney Conservative who had no trouble going back on his word to sell-out the country. Reformers must be spinning in their graves. And make sure to keep saying that when you go door-to-door campaigning.

Personally I have no trouble the Conservative throwing out everything they believe in to implement only Liberal and NDP policies (if in fact that's what they really are going to do). My question is how quickly all their Conservative supporters can so readily accept that after twenty years of criticizing those exact same policies they now embrace.

Maybe these short-term policies in run-up to the election are just a CON job.

[Michael Bluth]

Personally I have no trouble the Conservative throwing out everything they believe in to implement only Liberal and NDP policies (if in fact that's what they really are going to do). My question is how quickly all their Conservative supporters can so readily accept that after twenty years of criticizing those exact same policies they now embrace.

Maybe these short-term policies in run-up to the election are just a CON job.

The Conservatives aren't throwing anything out.

If you look at your little timeline game the GST cut, accountability act, Choice in Childcare and increased funding are still Government policy. So I guess we haven't been penalized for sticking to conservative values.

Nice try though...