Religion: Good or Evil

[noahbody]

Would the world be better off without religion? Has it taken enough lives though religious wars? Have enough people contracted aids because of the belief that condoms are wrong? Have enough people lost their savings buying their way into heaven?

[Canadian Blue]

What do you mean by religion, trying to take away people's right to spiritual beliefs is wrong. However with religion, as with any organization or entity, it will always have people who will attempt to corrupt it for their own personal motives.

As for taking away condoms, my parent's are evangelical Christian's, and even they think taking away contraception is an incompetent idea.

I think a better way to deal with intolerance, is to try to bring about more understanding of one anothers differences. Knowledge is what will bring this world closer together in harmony, ignorance is what will tear it apart. I'm sure each religion can find some common ground with each other in order to bring about some positive changes.

[White Doors]

Yes and the thread starter surely has ignorance when it comes to religion.

[geoffrey]

Have enough people contracted aids because of the belief that condoms are wrong?

People contract AIDS because they don't use protection and sleep with numerous partners.

A truly religious person wouldn't do that. That argument is the quite possibly the biggest load of shit I've ever heard.

You can't break some major rules of a religion, then keep a rather silly little rule, and then blame the religion for making you follow the silly rule. IOW, people that use Catholicism as a cause of AIDS are looking for a scapegoat.

[Catchme]

Have enough people contracted aids because of the belief that condoms are wrong?

People contract AIDS because they don't use protection and sleep with numerous partners.

You can be a virgin female have sex once and get AIDS, number of partners has nothing to do with it.

There are a variety of ways and means of gwetting AIDS and yes unprotected sex is is one way, but within that 1 way are numerous reasons in each and every case of AIDS why sexual inercourse is unprotected. Fot example AIDS and STDs rates are increasing amongst young Christian girls, because they have oral sex to remian a virgin, and do not think they will get a STD.

A truly religious person wouldn't do that. That argument is the quite possibly the biggest load of shit I've ever heard.

Define a truly religious person?

You can't break some major rules of a religion, then keep a rather silly little rule, and then blame the religion for making you follow the silly rule. IOW, people that use Catholicism as a cause of AIDS are looking for a scapegoat.

They are saying that the Catholism is enhancing the spread of AIDS, and it is a fact.

Self-professed religious persons cherry pick rules in the Bible all the time.

[jbg]

Would the world be better off without religion? Has it taken enough lives though religious wars? Have enough people contracted aids because of the belief that condoms are wrong? Have enough people lost their savings buying their way into heaven?

There's only one religion, in modern times, that is involved in constant "religious wars".

Other than that religion, really a death cult, religion provides a template for organizing people's lives. It provides guidance and assistance with life cycle events such as birth, death, marriage, coming of age, etc. On balance, it's a positive.

[geoffrey]

A truly religious person wouldn't do that. That argument is the quite possibly the biggest load of shit I've ever heard.

Define a truly religious person?

Not the people that refuse to wear condoms for religious reasons, but then go around having tons of sex with randoms all the time.

You can't break some major rules of a religion, then keep a rather silly little rule, and then blame the religion for making you follow the silly rule. IOW, people that use Catholicism as a cause of AIDS are looking for a scapegoat.

They are saying that the Catholism is enhancing the spread of AIDS, and it is a fact.

Either they follow the rules, or not. If they want to follow the rules, they don't get AIDS, if they don't want to follow the rules, then at least wear a condom because that fact is rather irrelevant at that point.

Tell me how the Catholic faith enhances the spread of AIDS, really. Their rules actually make AIDS impossible to transmit, if they were followed. I don't understand how the Church can be blamed for people ignoring some of the rules as an excuse for laziness.

If you want to find the problem, the corruption in public health in Africa, where all that sex ed. and condom money should be going, is where you should look. All that money rarely gets to the people that needed it. Corruption in the UN and Health organizations is the issue in Africa, not a Church that has no one following their rules anyways.

[guyser]

Tell me how the Catholic faith enhances the spread of AIDS, really. Their rules actually make AIDS impossible to transmit, if they were followed. I don't understand how the Church can be blamed for people ignoring some of the rules as an excuse for laziness.

If you want to find the problem, the corruption in public health in Africa, where all that sex ed. and condom money should be going, is where you should look. All that money rarely gets to the people that needed it. Corruption in the UN and Health organizations is the issue in Africa, not a Church that has no one following their rules anyways.

So then you agree that some of the rules are followed and some not?

Then you agree that Africa and Aids avoidance is hampered by the Catholic church and the rediculous notion they espouse about not suing condoms? Good we agree.

[geoffrey]

So then you agree that some of the rules are followed and some not?

Then you agree that Africa and Aids avoidance is hampered by the Catholic church and the rediculous notion they espouse about not suing condoms? Good we agree.

We don't agree at all. If all the rules were followed, then AIDS wouldn't be an issue if Africa. But if your going to break one of the bigger rules, it makes no sense to keep a small little one like condom use.

Why aren't the health authorities doing more to educate?

Another big issue here that the witchdoctors amongst the more uncivilized groups. They often prescribe sex with virgins as a cure to AIDS... obviously that's highly successful.

The Church isn't the problem with AIDS in Africa, not at all. If you blame their rules, then you have to look and see their rules would prevent the spread of AIDS as well if actually followed.

[guyser]

The Church isn't the problem with AIDS in Africa, not at all. If you blame their rules, then you have to look and see their rules would prevent the spread of AIDS as well if actually followed.

Circular logic.

Doesn't work.

[blueblood]

The Church isn't the problem with AIDS in Africa, not at all. If you blame their rules, then you have to look and see their rules would prevent the spread of AIDS as well if actually followed.

Circular logic.

Doesn't work.

???? A major belief in Catholicism is abstinence, really getting to know your partner, and no promiscuity. Also they don't believe in condoms and all that. If you follow the first three, you won't need condoms in the first place. IMO if you don't follow the first three you aren't following the rules of catholicism. IMO if you don't believe in the first three and use condoms, calling yourself a true blue catholic is hypocricy.

Following Catholicism to a T and/or using protection should stop the spread of aids.

From the looks of things AIDS down there is spread because of ignorance, stupidity, selfishness, and carelessness. Education would help the most.

[geoffrey]

The Church isn't the problem with AIDS in Africa, not at all. If you blame their rules, then you have to look and see their rules would prevent the spread of AIDS as well if actually followed.

Circular logic.

Doesn't work.

It's a circular logic argument that creates the Catholism/AIDS link to begin with. Actually, it's a completely illogical argument.

[leonardcohen]

Religion is a set of beliefs,what a person believes and how they are willing to take responsibility for their actions based on those beliefs says more about the person rather then the religion.

[White Doors]

People, good or evil would be more apropos.

[jbg]

Religion is a set of beliefs,what a person believes and how they are willing to take responsibility for their actions based on those beliefs says more about the person rather then the religion.

Perfect.

[EchoesofMourning]

Would the world be better off without religion?

Religion( or more specifically, the church) is the product of people - an organization - and as such it suffers from the same problems that any group of people does. Sooner or later a power-hungry and immoral person will take control and abuse the power bestowed upon him. This has been repeated in the past, is being repeated right now, and will continue to be repeated in the future - it's the nature of people.

[Figleaf]

Would the world be better off without religion? Has it taken enough lives though religious wars? Have enough people contracted aids because of the belief that condoms are wrong? Have enough people lost their savings buying their way into heaven?

More than enough. Religion is the most perfidious, destructive and harmful artifact humankind ever devised, even counting nuclear weapons. If somehow it could be wiped from our collective consciousness, I would do it in an instant.

[jbg]

More than enough. Religion is the most perfidious, destructive and harmful artifact humankind ever devised, even counting nuclear weapons. If somehow it could be wiped from our collective consciousness, I would do it in an instant.

And how would you organize thought processes and communities?

[Figleaf]

More than enough. Religion is the most perfidious, destructive and harmful artifact humankind ever devised, even counting nuclear weapons. If somehow it could be wiped from our collective consciousness, I would do it in an instant.

And how would you organize thought processes and communities?

Thought Processes:

Thought processes organized themselves before there was religion, and untutored as they then were, they produced religion. Fortunately, as human knowledge accumulated and more minds applied attention over time, we recognized that logic and reason were our most reliable methods of truth seeking and we now have them available to help us with our thought processes.

Communities:

Human communities organized themselves before there was religion. Human communities today organize themselves without religion. Frankly, I see no case to meet in this part of your question. How would we? By just carrying on without it. No problem.

[EchoesofMourning]

"Communities:

Human communities organized themselves before there was religion. Human communities today organize themselves without religion. Frankly, I see no case to meet in this part of your question. How would we? By just carrying on without it. No problem."

Religion has been around as long as people have - it just wasn't as well organized. Tribal shamans, medicine men, these 'primitive' forms of religion have been around forever. The difference is not in religious belief, but the institutions that support those beliefs.

[Figleaf]

"Communities:

Human communities organized themselves before there was religion. Human communities today organize themselves without religion. Frankly, I see no case to meet in this part of your question. How would we? By just carrying on without it. No problem."

Religion has been around as long as people have - it just wasn't as well organized. Tribal shamans, medicine men, these 'primitive' forms of religion have been around forever. The difference is not in religious belief, but the institutions that support those beliefs.

Not forever. Someone, sometime, was the FIRST medicine man. Before that there were probably ceremonial leaders who were not solely religious professionals.

Before that, there were probably shared times of desperate hoping coupled with attempts at sympathetic magic, and this behaviour is what would have lead to the beginnings of religion (i.e. a community-structured superstitious belief system).

[EchoesofMourning]

Not forever. Someone, sometime, was the FIRST medicine man. Before that there were probably ceremonial leaders who were not solely religious professionals.

Before that, there were probably shared times of desperate hoping coupled with attempts at sympathetic magic, and this behaviour is what would have lead to the beginnings of religion (i.e. a community-structured superstitious belief system).

I guess that's technically true - humanity was not always necessarily always like that. Perhaps I should rephrase:

Disregarding times when getting mauled by a sabre-toothed tiger was a pressing worry in humanity's mind, religion has always existed. Whether or not he was called as such, every group would have had a 'shaman', even if it was simply the person who could make a fire. Names aren't important, and whether the person is called a 'magic-man' or a pope, his role is the same.