Parliament Votes Against Extending

[geoffrey]

What expert disagrees with him?

Since your unwilling to agree that the SCC does, we have:

Michael Ignatieff in his book The Lesser Evil (I highly encourage you to read it if you wish to hear about how badly we need these provisions from a Liberal), Irwin Cotler (former Justice Minister, might know something about it...), Bob Rae (former head of the investigation that needs these provisions to convict terrorists), and Anne McLellan (the author of the bill, a wise Liberal that see's the hard left turn and what it will cost Canadians in their security).

I think the Bob Rae comments are most damning. Dion, as he's a wise wise man, thinks that Air India criminals can be found out without the provisions. Mr. Rae, who led the investiation disagrees.

You tell me, who should we listen to?

Then again, with elements in the party protecting family members and the such from investigation, maybe I understand where Dion is coming from. He's very nice to sacrifice so much (Canadian security) to help out some buddies that supported him in the leadership convention. What an honest and caring individual he is.

Someone told Dion to lead the party against this... against all expert opinion (you won't find any experts taking his side). The only logical choice is the extremist ethnic wing of the Liberal party, which contains a group that is essientially the prime target of the Air India investigation.

If no one told Dion to lead the party against these provisions, then I must conclude that Dion is nuts and a power hungry madman that ignores all expert voices and makes decisions by talking to Kyoto the dog.

[Catchme]

What expert disagrees with him?

Since your unwilling to agree that the SCC does, we have:

Michael Ignatieff in his book The Lesser Evil (I highly encourage you to read it if you wish to hear about how badly we need these provisions from a Liberal), Irwin Cotler (former Justice Minister, might know something about it...), Bob Rae (former head of the investigation that needs these provisions to convict terrorists), and Anne McLellan (the author of the bill, a wise Liberal that see's the hard left turn and what it will cost Canadians in their security).

I think the Bob Rae comments are most damning. Dion, as he's a wise wise man, thinks that Air India criminals can be found out without the provisions. Mr. Rae, who led the investiation disagrees.

You tell me, who should we listen to?

Then again, with elements in the party protecting family members and the such from investigation, maybe I understand where Dion is coming from. He's very nice to sacrifice so much (Canadian security) to help out some buddies that supported him in the leadership convention. What an honest and caring individual he is.

Someone told Dion to lead the party against this... against all expert opinion (you won't find any experts taking his side). The only logical choice is the extremist ethnic wing of the Liberal party, which contains a group that is essientially the prime target of the Air India investigation.

If no one told Dion to lead the party against these provisions, then I must conclude that Dion is nuts and a power hungry madman that ignores all expert voices and makes decisions by talking to Kyoto the dog.

The SCC does not and I have challenged you to prove that it has and you haven't, while I and others have proven over and over again that they disagreed, so, 'nuff said about the SCC agreeing until you provide proof.

Michael Ignatieff voted with the opposition and against the extension, perhaps he got some more facts and read the SCC on security certificates and what they sade about personal liberties and due process, eh? It would seem so as that is what was said.

Cotler did not vote with the CPC, he abstained so please do not try and say he supports it as he does not. He disagreed with both, and felt that changes should be made instead of the CPC playing crass political games.

Bob Rae is not an elected official, and he has an issue with Dion winning the leadership, and I find it amazing that the CPC and their apologists are championing Rae after years of trashing him.

The Air India investigation rhetoric is a red herring pulled out and nothing more.

[hiti]

You tell me, who should we listen to?

Then again, with elements in the party protecting family members and the such from investigation, maybe I understand where Dion is coming from. He's very nice to sacrifice so much (Canadian security) to help out some buddies that supported him in the leadership convention. What an honest and caring individual he is.

Someone told Dion to lead the party against this... against all expert opinion (you won't find any experts taking his side). The only logical choice is the extremist ethnic wing of the Liberal party, which contains a group that is essientially the prime target of the Air India investigation.

If no one told Dion to lead the party against these provisions, then I must conclude that Dion is nuts and a power hungry madman that ignores all expert voices and makes decisions by talking to Kyoto the dog.

Name those elements or admit to scandal mongering.

And why do we need those two provisions to compensate for shoddy police work by the RCMP? Also why have the RCMP not used these two provisions to invoke investigative hearings these past three years since the acquittal of the two suspects they finally charged?

Steve would like to suspend civil rights in Canada. Even cancel the Charter of Rights and Freedom.

It is good that Canadians have Dion to stand up for our rights and freedoms.

[geoffrey]

Name those elements or admit to scandal mongering.

The Sikh community that has very close ties to the Liberals in both Toronto and Vancouver and is highly involved in a domestic terrorism investigation that has been stalled by this 'sunset'.

And why do we need those two provisions to compensate for shoddy police work by the RCMP? Also why have the RCMP not used these two provisions to invoke investigative hearings these past three years since the acquittal of the two suspects they finally charged?

Because the police are following the SCC's recommendation that these provisions be used only with the most diligence possible. An appeal could be made on each use of the provisions, which take years to sort out.

Steve would like to suspend civil rights in Canada. Even cancel the Charter of Rights and Freedom.

Alas, name that evidence or admit to fear mongering.

It is good that Canadians have Dion to stand up for our rights and freedoms.

It's good that this deal to extremists in the party is likely enough for Dion to get back to his job of being a mainstream political leader again. At least I hope so, for both the Liberal's and Canada's sake.

[Catchme]

Name those elements or admit to scandal mongering.

The Sikh community that has very close ties to the Liberals in both Toronto and Vancouver and is highly involved in a domestic terrorism investigation that has been stalled by this 'sunset'.

Now that is an outright slurr and it has not been stalled at all. The only stalling dome was by the RCMp who refused to give the judge documentation, yet the Vancouver Sun aparently ended up getting it.

And why do we need those two provisions to compensate for shoddy police work by the RCMP? Also why have the RCMP not used these two provisions to invoke investigative hearings these past three years since the acquittal of the two suspects they finally charged?

Because the police are following the SCC's recommendation that these provisions be used only with the most diligence possible. An appeal could be made on each use of the provisions, which take years to sort out.

Yes, takes years to sort out because they are not followinf due process, and can hold them for a year without telling anyone. And the police are not following anything the SCC said. they would no even give documents to the judge over seeing the inquiry.

So, all these people who are caught up in fear driven hysreia, and erroneously jailed, should have to sit in jail for years while it is sorted out? Then we pay billions in punative damages? Wrong headed thinking!

Steve would like to suspend civil rights in Canada. Even cancel the Charter of Rights and Freedom.

Alas, name that evidence or admit to fear mongering.

The proof is in his dirty politics and smears, plus wanting to extend sunset clauses that were deemed by the SCC to not meet the charter. That is cancelling the Charter.

It is good that Canadians have Dion to stand up for our rights and freedoms.

It's good that this deal to extremists in the party is likely enough for Dion to get back to his job of being a mainstream political leader again. At least I hope so, for both the Liberal's and Canada's sake.

There was no deal to the extremists in his party. Please do stop being so spurious.

[scribblet]

Steve would like to suspend civil rights in Canada. Even cancel the Charter of Rights and Freedom.

What utter rot, more spurious assertions - nothing but drive by smears.

[Catchme]

Steve would like to suspend civil rights in Canada. Even cancel the Charter of Rights and Freedom.

What utter rot, more spurious assertions - nothing but drive by smears.

apparently you did not read the whole thread and reacted from a purely closed partisan view.

And quite frankly it is only the CPC and their aplogicsts who are smearing these days it seeems.

Instead of injecting your personal opinion how about you provide proof to back up your opinions?

[scribblet]

It appears that Dion will be punishing the Liberals who voted against the gov't

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/st...cb-0b4d5b55c28e

Liberal MP Tom Wappel will face unspecified "consequences" for breaking party ranks and voting with the minority Conservative government on an anti-terrorism law vote, Liberal leader Stephane Dion said yesterday.

However, several of his colleagues, including three Liberals who also sided with the government but abstained from voting with Mr. Dion's blessing, say they do not believe Mr. Wappel will be, or should be, disciplined.

B.C. MP Keith Martin said Mr. Wappel should not be penalized and that MPs should be allowed to vote freely on such contentious issues as national security.

"Canadians are divided on this issue and Parliament should reflect those divisions," he said. MPs are not "potted plants who park their brains at the door."

Mr. Wappel, a social conservative who has represented the Toronto- area riding of Scarborough West for two decades, was the lone Liberal to vote for the government motion to extend two anti-terrorist measures for three years. The motion was defeated 159-124.

[Argus]

Steve would like to suspend civil rights in Canada. Even cancel the Charter of Rights and Freedom.

It is good that Canadians have Dion to stand up for our rights and freedoms.

I think I am going to start a competition for the most inane, ridiculous, asinine comments made by the most blustering, fanatic, ludicrously paranoid party loyalists on this site. This will be hard to beat, though.

I'm not sure what the prize will be: A dribble glass, perhaps?

[Argus]

Steve would like to suspend civil rights in Canada. Even cancel the Charter of Rights and Freedom.

What utter rot, more spurious assertions - nothing but drive by smears.

I have to wonder how many of these posters drool into their keyboards as they are typing madly away.

[Saturn]

Name those elements or admit to scandal mongering.

The Sikh community that has very close ties to the Liberals in both Toronto and Vancouver and is highly involved in a domestic terrorism investigation that has been stalled by this 'sunset'.

The provisions were born out the paranoia surrounding 9/11 and they were neither designed nor meant to be used in 20+ yr old cold cases. The RCMP had 5 years to use them and apparently didn't make much effort to.

And why do we need those two provisions to compensate for shoddy police work by the RCMP? Also why have the RCMP not used these two provisions to invoke investigative hearings these past three years since the acquittal of the two suspects they finally charged?

Because the police are following the SCC's recommendation that these provisions be used only with the most diligence possible. An appeal could be made on each use of the provisions, which take years to sort out.

They used these provisions with the most diligence possible already. By leaking secret information and using it for political purposes. Such diligence clearly shows that the RCMP cannot use the provisions with diligence. If they wanted those provisions to stay, they clearly shot themselves in the foot by abusing them and demonstrating that they cannot be trusted with them.