Suzuki, the Left Wing and Eco-Nazis

[JerrySeinfeld]

Perhaps this isn't rocket science (pardon the use of the word "science" here )...but my presmise for debate here is this: The connection between the left wing and environmentalism makes perfect sense when you think about the mentality of most left wingers.

Left wing people have always felt that they knew better and were smarter than everyone else - just look on this forum to the condescending attitudes. Think back to the days of high school, sitting in class debating about the pros and cons of government intervention in the domestic economy - in a setting where it's actually still up for debate. The lefties always thought they knew best and argued for socialism and big, expensive government programs to fix all of society's ills.

The dangerous part about climate change is that the "leave the big decisions to the smart people in government" crowd never got that big job, has kept it's pet social studies essay opinions and gone global. They've hijacked the earth's natural climate fluctuations as a basis for massive global social engineering on a never-before-heard-of scale.

Think about it: Isn't Kyoto just one big wealth transfer from rich countries to poor ones? Isn't this global socialism?

Next time you hear Canada's resident kook, David Suzuki, ranting away take a closer listen: you can hear his ideas about global social policy and economics leaking into his weakly veiled comments about the temperature of a Greenlandian glacier. It's no accident these subjects are becoming more and more intertwined.

This is just another veiled global attempt to demonize "industry" , "big business" , "america" and "free will" - all irrationally chosen enemies of the hard core left.

This is scary business, no?

[madmax]

Great, another thread with nothing new to offer that couldn't have been added any of the other 9 threads going.

[southerncomfort]

Probably but I am wondering why they don't close a thread when it gets really long starts meandering and gets off topic.

[Who's Doing What?]

Perhaps this isn't rocket science (pardon the use of the word "science" here )...but my presmise for debate here is this: The connection between the left wing and environmentalism makes perfect sense when you think about the mentality of most left wingers.

Left wing people have always felt that they knew better and were smarter than everyone else - just look on this forum to the condescending attitudes.

Speaking of condescending attitudes, and the mentality of a particular group....

[B. Max]

Think about it: Isn't Kyoto just one big wealth transfer from rich countries to poor ones? Isn't this global socialism?

That's exactly what it is.

[Canuck E Stan]

Think about it: Isn't Kyoto just one big wealth transfer from rich countries to poor ones? Isn't this global socialism?

That's exactly what it is.

No,no..........it's about the enviroment and getting rid of greenhouse gases.......and that's why with Kyoto ....

a $10 Billion cheque in the mail to

a foreign country and presto!

your greenhouse gas problem is gone........ until another cheque is required.

[B. Max]

No,no..........it's about the enviroment and getting rid of greenhouse gases.......and that's why with Kyoto ....

a $10 Billion cheque in the mail to

a foreign country and presto!

your greenhouse gas problem is gone........ until another cheque is required.

There's a word for that. I seem to have forgotten for the moment.

[Keepitsimple]

Well, there is something a little new about this thread. Left wingers are drawn to Socialism - big government, protectionist policies and the nanny state.....elites and government that know what's best for the minions.

Centre and Centre Right (there really are no real Right Wingers in North America) are drawn to Free Enterprise, market forces, smaller government, individual choice and accountability.

To my knowledge, few, if any countries have been built from the ground up using the Socialist/Communist/Marxist philosophy, into a modern, successful, thriving nation.....yet there are constant forces in the world (the Left Wingers, the "extreme" environmentalists or alarmists) that would try to suck the life out of countries who built their successes on Centre of the Road policies.

Britain fell into that trap before being rescued by Margaret Thatcher. Trudeau's legacy of Government largesse was not adequately constrained by Mulroney so the Big Government approach had Canada on the verge of bankruptcy. Paul Martin, to his credit, helped to reverse the trend - albeit by starving the Provinces.

Modern countries like Canada have to strike an effective balance between stimulating economic growth and encouraging personal initiative and accountability.....and providing programs to protect our sick, elderly, and poor......but make no mistake - without the Centre and Centre-right policies that maximize our economic potential - there won't be enough money for our social programs that help us define what Canada is.

Too many people have the attitude - "what's in it for me". I've heard many times on this board that income-splitting would be unfair because it doesn't address single people. Dismissing whether Income Splitting is a good idea or not - since when does an attempt to help families translate into "where's my money"? I've heard the same thing about the $100 per child payment. Where's my money?

[Catchme]

Pffft, there can be NO debate on this topic, it started out from a completely partisan stance, and degraded from there with the initial posters commentary only to create a soap box to bash scientists of the world as being socialist.

It is exactly the same thought process as the Republicans Bridge and Chism, who say evolution is a conspiracy to undermine the old testament by Jews, the very same people who wrote brought the Old Testament to goya and who regard it as part of their Holy Books.

As for one poster talking of accountability, in regards to right of center political parties/centerist AKA the CPC, what a joke there is nothing accountable about Harper's government at all.

And hey, guess what Canada has beenformed by socialist thought and people on the left. Who after all has ruled Canada more than those on the right.

It is those one the right who have tried to suck the life blood out of the workers and actual producers of this country, and who are trying to destroy the environment for capital gains making the rich richer, at the expense of hard working Canadians.

[Posit]

Actually I'll chime in....

The Left Wing do know better than the Right Wing primarily because they use legitimate science to support their argument and not junk science and religion like the right. No better is there an example than the issue of global warming where for the last 10 years the right has been trying to dismiss millions of scientific data by inventing d support for their opposition by hiring paid science and claiming that the evolution of the earth has seen the same ebbs and tides of warming and cooling that we are seeing today. Then if that doesn't work it doesn't take long for someone in the extreme right to claim that God will punish us all if we don't leave it alone.

I have actually noticed here that same types of arguments from the more right posters. While there are quite a few right and left of centres, it seems that the more right leaning posters don't care to discuss issues but prefer just to repeat the same old tired statements that they think are fact. Since I'm not in either political spectrum, if I were to choose a side where it concerns scientific, or social problems I would have to lean towards the left since they don't use money as a guide to do the right thing.

[margrace]

WEll the right wing people are instructed by their leaders how to reply. Negativity and nastiness are the call of the day. All one has to do is watch those adds on TV. Welcome to American folks, you soon will have as little free speech as Mr. Harpers lackies do.

[stevoh]

Too many people have the attitude - "what's in it for me". I've heard many times on this board that income-splitting would be unfair because it doesn't address single people. Dismissing whether Income Splitting is a good idea or not - since when does an attempt to help families translate into "where's my money"? I've heard the same thing about the $100 per child payment. Where's my money?

Strange, I have always had the same impression of right wingers. Tell me, how is being concerned for the environment a "whats in it for me" stance? How exactly is my care and attention of the environment, expressed in numerous ways (from product choice, to recycling) benefitting ME personally? The light bulbs are more expensive. The hybrid cars are more expensive. Recycling is more effort than simply throwing out the trash. The product choices I make due to sustainable practices, more effort again, how exactly is this somehow benefitting ME?

Other than a degree of personal self fulfilment, it doesn't. I do it for two reasons. The first is that I care about a whole lot more than just ME. I want others to appreciate our parks and lands. I want future generations to have access to the same resources and advantages we do today. The second is that I support and believe in encouraging companies that are interested in more than simply the bottom line. Companies that have ethical and environmental guidelines to minimize environmental impact and strengthen the abilities of their employees to be independent and self sustaining. To have self worth.

In other words, being a left winger to me is about so much more than just myself. It is about a local, regional, and global concern for others, and what I, and others like me, can do to help. My individual efforts may not make much of a difference, but as a community, we are making and leading great changes.

[Keepitsimple]

Too many people have the attitude - "what's in it for me". I've heard many times on this board that income-splitting would be unfair because it doesn't address single people. Dismissing whether Income Splitting is a good idea or not - since when does an attempt to help families translate into "where's my money"? I've heard the same thing about the $100 per child payment. Where's my money?

Strange, I have always had the same impression of right wingers. Tell me, how is being concerned for the environment a "whats in it for me" stance? How exactly is my care and attention of the environment, expressed in numerous ways (from product choice, to recycling) benefitting ME personally? The light bulbs are more expensive. The hybrid cars are more expensive. Recycling is more effort than simply throwing out the trash. The product choices I make due to sustainable practices, more effort again, how exactly is this somehow benefitting ME?

Other than a degree of personal self fulfilment, it doesn't. I do it for two reasons. The first is that I care about a whole lot more than just ME. I want others to appreciate our parks and lands. I want future generations to have access to the same resources and advantages we do today. The second is that I support and believe in encouraging companies that are interested in more than simply the bottom line. Companies that have ethical and environmental guidelines to minimize environmental impact and strengthen the abilities of their employees to be independent and self sustaining. To have self worth.

In other words, being a left winger to me is about so much more than just myself. It is about a local, regional, and global concern for others, and what I, and others like me, can do to help. My individual efforts may not make much of a difference, but as a community, we are making and leading great changes.

And that's great - I have a lot of respect for people who respect the environment. My comments were directed - and I believe I said that - at EXTREME environmentalists who tend to let their beliefs spill over into socialist causes.

[JerrySeinfeld]

last 10 years the right has been trying to dismiss millions of scientific data

Example of this data?

inventing d support for their opposition by hiring paid science

ahh - and the IPCC crowd is working for free?

and claiming that the evolution of the earth has seen the same ebbs and tides of warming and cooling that we are seeing today

Actually - it has. The earth has been fluctuating in temperature for eons - and it's cooler now than it has been in the past.

I would have to lean towards the left since they don't use money as a guide to do the right thing.

Oh my god that is PRICELESS. The left's solution for EVERY problem is MONEY.

WHat the heck do you think makes Kyoto tick? Good will? hahahahaha.

[madmax]

Actually - it has. The earth has been fluctuating in temperature for eons - and it's cooler now than it has been in the past.

I followed this link. A little bit of data, some discussion. I didn't see the information, following the links within the web, that said it was cooler today then in the past. I was going through pretty quick, but I didn't see it.

Can you point out the chart or dialogue showing that we are cooler today then in the past?

I saw some stuff with regards to the "mini" ice age in the 1700s.

[stignasty]

It's this week's climate denial thread!!

I love the characterization of David Suzuki as a Nazi. That's priceless. I found this on his webpage, it completely backs up what a nutcase he is.

To gain an understanding of the level of scientific consensus on climate change, a recent study examined every article on climate change published in peer-reviewed scientific journals over a 10-year period. Of the 928 articles on climate change the authors found, not one of them disagreed with the consensus position that climate change is happening or is human-induced.

. . . or maybe not. . .

Heres' a fun link for all of you kids to read:

http://gristmill.grist.org/skeptics

Just for the record, what exactly is an "Eco-Nazi?" It's not an ad hominem used because there's no science backing the deniers is it? Anyway, I can just hear them now "YOU VILL RIDE YOUR BIKE TO VERK!!!! OR YOU VILL GO TO ZEE CAMPS!!!!"

I look forward to next week's redundant denial thread that will call someone a "Stalinvironmentalist"

[Canuck E Stan]

It's this week's climate denial thread!!

I look forward to next week's redundant denial thread that will call someone a "Stalinvironmentalist"

Next week......live on this stage.....right left from the CBC......The Environ Mentals.....with lead vocals by Kookie Soo Zooki ....

doing their global smashing hit....I Pee See See Oh Too.

[newbie]

It's this week's climate denial thread!!

I love the characterization of David Suzuki as a Nazi. That's priceless. I found this on his webpage, it completely backs up what a nutcase he is.

To gain an understanding of the level of scientific consensus on climate change, a recent study examined every article on climate change published in peer-reviewed scientific journals over a 10-year period. Of the 928 articles on climate change the authors found, not one of them disagreed with the consensus position that climate change is happening or is human-induced.

I look forward to next week's redundant denial thread that will call someone a "Stalinvironmentalist"

That statement makes total sense to me. What about it bothers you?

[Posit]

last 10 years the right has been trying to dismiss millions of scientific data

Example of this data?

inventing d support for their opposition by hiring paid science

ahh - and the IPCC crowd is working for free?

and claiming that the evolution of the earth has seen the same ebbs and tides of warming and cooling that we are seeing today

Actually - it has. The earth has been fluctuating in temperature for eons - and it's cooler now than it has been in the past.

I would have to lean towards the left since they don't use money as a guide to do the right thing.

Oh my god that is PRICELESS. The left's solution for EVERY problem is MONEY.

WHat the heck do you think makes Kyoto tick? Good will? hahahahaha.

Global warming is not a new phenomena. If you had watched Al Gore's documentary you would have heard that he has been studying global warming and carbon build up since he was in university and his professor had about 20 years of research beyond him. That is only on sector of the massive study. And yet the right produces junk science produced by oil-company funded researchers to suggest that this is just normal fluctuation in the weather....give me a break....

I don't know where you get your information, but today's weather is 2 degrees warmer than it was just 50 years ago. Global warming doesn't mean that we will get warmer winters per se but that we will see more severe weather over the whole year as a result of that increase in temperature. And while they have been peaks and valleys over the ages in the warming / cooling cycles they do not compare to the exponential warming that has occurred in that same 50 years. Industrialization is the only common denominator that puts it far warmer than it has ever been.

If the right wing corporations and oil companies would put as much money into solving carbon emissions as they do in denying it we would have had a solution already. The unfortunate thing is solving the problem means they earn less and as we all know, greed will cause good people to not do what is right. When I suggest that money is the root of the right's evil, of course we are talking about hoarding and greed, rather than being members of the global community who put the global interest above the personal greed of the individual. That is one of the fundamental differences between the right and left.

Money, in terms of penalties and bonuses is the only motivator that will cause voluntary compliance with Kyoto. So sure it is about money in one sense. However, the net benefit isn't about money but about reducing greenhouse gas emissions. You would be naive to think that Kyoto is about stopping global warming. It is really about slowing it down until we can find alternatives to our gluttonous use of fossil fuels and our mass consumption of useless things.....

[margrace]

I experienced my first introduction, on Sunday night, to a severe asthma attack, ever seen one? It is scarry and one is so helpless. If polluted air is even slightly suspect in this I am all for doing away with everything that is now polluting our air.

[scribblet]

I experienced my first introduction, on Sunday night, to a severe asthma attack, ever seen one? It is scarry and one is so helpless. If polluted air is even slightly suspect in this I am all for doing away with everything that is now polluting our air.

Gee Margrace, I hate to tell you this but you (and all of us) have a lot to do with polluting our air.

[Canuck E Stan]

I experienced my first introduction, on Sunday night, to a severe asthma attack, ever seen one? It is scarry and one is so helpless. If polluted air is even slightly suspect in this I am all for doing away with everything that is now polluting our air.

Call the Liberal MP's and have them get the Clean Air Act pushed through committee.That will be a good start.

[Saturn]

Call the Liberal MP's and have them get the Clean Air Act pushed through committee.That will be a good start.

That'd be a waste of paper, not a good start.

[margrace]

I experienced my first introduction, on Sunday night, to a severe asthma attack, ever seen one? It is scarry and one is so helpless. If polluted air is even slightly suspect in this I am all for doing away with everything that is now polluting our air.

Gee Margrace, I hate to tell you this but you (and all of us) have a lot to do with polluting our air.

And your point is???

[margrace]

I experienced my first introduction, on Sunday night, to a severe asthma attack, ever seen one? It is scarry and one is so helpless. If polluted air is even slightly suspect in this I am all for doing away with everything that is now polluting our air.

Call the Liberal MP's and have them get the Clean Air Act pushed through committee.That will be a good start.

Yes we could get rid of a lot of people in the fifty years before it would start couldn't we.