Earnst Zundel

[PolyNewbie]

The Armenian News

[Canadian Blue]

I'm not shedding any tears. In some ways it is a conflict though between what a society should allow in term's of free speech, and whether or not the state has the right to regulate speech in order to keep prevent bigotry and hatred.

[Riverwind]

Let me guess: Zundel was a good friend of the Rockefellers and was one of the people who helped the US government fake cell phones from the planes. He fled to Germany and was going to blow the whistle on Rockefeller and his puppet Bush but they got wind of it and ordered the German authorities to bring him up the holocaust denial charges. You decided to post a link to this story because you want to show everyone what happens to 'truthies' when then try to expose the truth.

[Canadian Blue]

Is Zundel a 9/11 revisionist as well. That really wouldn't surprise me.

[madmax]

Let me guess: Zundel was a good friend of the Rockefellers .....because you want to show everyone what happens to 'truthies' when then try to expose the truth.

That is a very bizarre post.

Also just as bizarre IIRC, Zundel ran for the leadership of the Federal Liberal Party

[PolyNewbie]

I just wanted to see what peoples reaction to this would be in the New World Order.

If I claimed to be the tooth fairy should I be arrested ?

[Canadian Blue]

So are you saying Zundel is a victim of the New World Order?

Should holocaust denial be tolerated in our society?

[Riverwind]

So are you saying Zundel is a victim of the New World Order?

Hey look - more evidence that Poly is inspired by anti-semites....

[August1991]

If I claimed to be the tooth fairy should I be arrested ?

Definitely not.

But I'd have no qualms whatsoever if Greg banned Zundel (or someone like him) from this forum. I have no desire to participate in a debate about whether the Holocaust occurred or not.

PolyNewbie, I have participated in your absurd threads merely for amusement. I'd have no qualms if Greg banned you.

With that said, western society may rue the day, some time in the future, for its decision to arrest people because they make outrageously false claims. In the hands of a different regime with different beliefs, that is a horrible precedent to set.

In Quebec, there is now talk of "reasonable accommodation" or the degree to which a majority should accommodate the differences of a minority. In the case of speech, I'd give practically free rein because the cost of words on anyone else is essentially nothing. We are free to ignore what others say.

[mcqueen625]

Let me guess: Zundel was a good friend of the Rockefellers .....because you want to show everyone what happens to 'truthies' when then try to expose the truth.

That is a very bizarre post.

Also just as bizarre IIRC, Zundel ran for the leadership of the Federal Liberal Party

Germany had the balls to do what Canada seemed not to be able to do. due to our bleeding heart liberal minded judiciary. No wonder Canada has become a country with no morals and no values. In fact in the minds of Liberal politicians, being Canadian means having no morals or values at all.

[geoffrey]

In the case of speech, I'd give practically free rein because the cost of words on anyone else is essentially nothing. We are free to ignore what others say.

In 100% agreement with you on that point.

Further, if you really look at it, the only ones harmed by Zundel were those that willingly chose to listen. I really struggle with limiting speech in any regard.

If someone is in a position of authority, like a teacher to students, that's different. Then it's not a freedom of speech issue, but an abuse of power. In this case we are essientially saying that society finds what Zundel says so distasteful that we believe he's better off behind bars.

I tend to agree on the distasteful aspect but not on the prision time for it.

If you don't like what he's saying, don't listen. Don't read his literature.

[Wilber]

Before we all get carried away with our righteousness, the Holocaust was carried out by Germans and much of it was carried out in Germany itself. It was perpetrated by people who were also responsible for the destruction of their country and the deaths of millions including a few million non Jewish Germans. They are not going to look at it the same way as any of us and aren't about to allow these people an opportunity for a repeat performance.

[jbg]

I just wanted to see what peoples reaction to this would be in the New World Order.

If I claimed to be the tooth fairy should I be arrested ?

For once I agree with you. Zundel should be allowed to prattle all he likes.

Freedom is not for cowards; ideas like his don't win minds of free people.

[PolyNewbie]

Wilber:They are not going to look at it the same way as any of us and aren't about to allow these people an opportunity for a repeat performance.

Actually the Bushes financed Hitler. They are also preparing for a repeat performance of the Holocaust. The detention centers are all linked by rail for rapid movement of people. Some of the detention centers have asphixiation facilities.

Oliver North drew up the plans for Rex 84 and more importantly Operation Night Train 84. This government document describes the testing procedures use to pick members of the armed forces that would participate, it explains that the operation must be carried out orderly and quickly (making second thoughts or idle thoughts impossible) and the varying degrees of force required to get people onto the trains.

The idea is to kill about 350,000 of us per day according to CFR member Jacques Ceausteau. When the operation starts there will be a media blackout and the police or foreign soldiers will gather people up late at night and get them onto the trains by saying there is some kind of national emergency.

The trains themselves go up to the facility and 4 cars at a time enter the asphixiation chambers and everyone aboard is asphixiated.

Much of this can be found in the documents "Rex 84" and "Operation Night Train 84" by doing a google search on these documents. There are lots of photos of the concentration camps but the trains used to transport people have had their photos removed. I have seen one photo showing the benches and shackles that are on the trains that will be used to transport people.

Its silly not to think this could happen because:

(1) Much of the FEMA budget is a black budget

(2) Its happened at least four times in the last century and the same people that run Russia, China and Germany run our countries (international bankers)

(3) The council of foreign relations has plenty of documents that explain the need for popuylation reduction and why - technology is empowering people.

(4) Numerous independent reports of concentration camps have been circulated on the web.

(5) Even Keith Oberman admits to the detention centers.

(6) The existence of the detention centers was first brought up during the Iran Contra hearings.

(7) Many people currently in the white house are considered to be war criminals by the international community. People like George Soros and Henry Kissinger cannot travel to amny countries for fear of being arrested and sent to the Hague.

(8) All the lies about terrorism, war and the involvement of the "WMD Twins" (Cheney & Rumsfeld)

[PolyNewbie]

Many people are aware of the planned mass executions but will not discuss them because they think the plans are only for dark skinned people. I've known about this since around 1991.

The fake terrorsist attacks are being used to start wars with unco-operative countries that are not yet controlled by private central bankers.

Every controlled country has a network of concentration camps. These can be found where they are conveniently linked by rail and are sometimes built into old railway stations.

[madmax]

Germany had the balls to do what Canada seemed not to be able to do. due to our bleeding heart liberal minded judiciary. No wonder Canada has become a country with no morals and no values. In fact in the minds of Liberal politicians, being Canadian means having no morals or values at all.

Putting away a "right winger" seems reasonable to me.

[madmax]

Freedom is not for cowards; ideas like his don't win minds of free people.

That is exactly what happened. An Ideology that was extreme and horrible became the accepted norm of the German People. They weren't forced into this view. The were all for it, Jews were the root of all evil in Germany.

Never again!!!

[PolyNewbie]

I have only seen one conspiracy video of the holocaust and it wasn't convincing. I don't think the Holocaust is relevant to todays politics. There are plenty of government documents and observations that show a mass holocaust for all central banker controlled countries around the world will occur at some point in the next few years.

Zundel is a hero, whether he is right or wrong he stood by his beliefs and went to jail for the sake of his beliefs, need for the truth and sense of community. Many of the leaders in power today do not share these qualities and are often backstabbers, liars and war criminals.

People like Zundel do not do well in a nihilist philosophy based civilization. In our civilization it is the scum that rises to the top. This always happens when there is a vast separation between the rich and poor. The uber rich dvelop a sinse of malfeasance toward the rest of the population, this nihilism plants itself in the culture and the civilization slowly falls apart.

The people of the world would be far better off if Zundel was released and the likes of Bush, Harper and Blair were sent to the hague, not to mention the group of war criminals that currently plays advisor roles at the white house.

We currently live in the most dangerous time in history, many people know about the lies about WMD's but cannot handle the fact that the lies actually run much deeper - even with all the evidence. I would have thought the fact that three bombs were found at Oklahoma would wake everyone up. It sure did when it happened while I was in school but those people were much smarter and well read than the average internet discussion group poster of these days.

[PolyNewbie]

I also think the holocaust denier laws were put in place to cast a dark shadow over the Jews and make them the suspects in what is ultimately happening. I think the true powers have always used Jews for this and that the Jews were used in ww2 to get the central bankers a foothold in the middle East where usery is against their religion.

[jbg]

I also think the holocaust denier laws were put in place to cast a dark shadow over the Jews and make them the suspects in what is ultimately happening. I think the true powers have always used Jews for this and that the Jews were used in ww2 to get the central bankers a foothold in the middle East where usery is against their religion.

Rubbish!!!

[PolyNewbie]

jbg:Rubbish!!!

Always excellent arguement from the lawyer.

jbg:if its them or us, I choose us

An in depth understanding of world issues is alo typically shown by lawyers. They are smart enough to avoid the simplistic thinking that draws the typical dumbed down masses into war hysteria.

Good show. I'm so glad to be enlightened by a honorable, noble and distinguished member of the law proffesion such as yourself.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear Geoffrey,

In the case of speech, I'd give practically free rein because the cost of words on anyone else is essentially nothing. We are free to ignore what others say.

In 100% agreement with you on that point.

I tend to agree on the distasteful aspect but not on the prision time for it.

If you don't like what he's saying, don't listen. Don't read his literature.

I must concur with you and August1991. I laugh at and ridicule holocaust deniers, but I don't agree that jail time is appropriate method to deal with issues of free speech. Unless, of course, Zundel was calling for a second 'holocaust'.

[Riverwind]

I must concur with you and August1991. I laugh at and ridicule holocaust deniers, but I don't agree that jail time is appropriate method to deal with issues of free speech. Unless, of course, Zundel was calling for a second 'holocaust'.

The holocaust is not something that reasonable people disagree on - the facts are clear. Hatred of Jews is the only possible motivation for denying the Holocaust (the recent denier love-in in Tehran is a case in point).

Furthermore, spreading these kinds of unfounded claims directed at a specific ethnic group are exactly the kinds of claims that lead to violance againce people from the group.

I would a call it a form a slander which, incidentally, is not allowed. I could see removing the criminal sanctions provided the law was changed to allow class action slander civil suits. If we did that the zundels of the world would still face injunctions prohibiting them from repeating their slander and would likely end up in jail for contempt of court.

[Charles Anthony]

Zundel is a hero, whether he is right or wrong he stood by his beliefs and went to jail for the sake of his beliefs, need for the truth and sense of community.

I disagree.

but I don't agree that jail time is appropriate method to deal with issues of free speech. Unless, of course, Zundel was calling for a second 'holocaust'.

I disagree.

The holocaust is not something that reasonable people disagree on

I agree.

Furthermore, spreading these kinds of unfounded claims directed at a specific ethnic group are exactly the kinds of claims that lead to violance againce people from the group.

I agree.

I would a call it a form a slander which, incidentally, is not allowed. I could see removing the criminal sanctions provided the law was changed to allow class action slander civil suits. If we did that the zundels of the world would still face injunctions prohibiting them from repeating their slander and would likely end up in jail for contempt of court.

I disagree.

This is the way I see things: I would rather we let people say what they want.

Zundel should have done a speaking tour and faced the crowds. People would have seen him for what he truly was: that there was nothing noble inside or underneath that stupid hard hat. He would have been mocked and his mission in life would have quickly sunk. Nobody would hire him in Canada and he would have gone bankrupt. If he was independently wealthy, people should have made public announcements to ostracize him and refuse to do business with him. His mug should have been plastered everywhere throughout the country with the words HOLOCAUST DENIER written underneath. People should refuse to serve him in restaurants or coffee shops. Any famous Canadian businessman or politician could have stood up and said: "We cherish our freedom soooooooo much in Canada, that we will show you, Zundel, what it is like to taste your own medicine. We will exercise OUR freedom and deny you service." His life in Canada could have been quickly demolished or made a living hell to the point where he would have ASKED for imprisonment. Now, he is a martyr for evil people.

I think part of the problem is that people do not want freedom.

[PolyNewbie]

History is always being re written and questioning history is an important part of understanding it. I see nothing wrong with debating any issue and think when restrictions are placed on free debate it prevents the truth from comming out and from people gaining understanding and developing interest in history.