Americans Staying Away in Droves

[ft.niagara]

As a Canadian shopping there I get no such consideration.

I do not understand why not. Are you sure you do not. If I buy something on ebay from out of state, and have it delevered here there is no tax. If I buy a car out of state, and inform them I am regestering it out of state, I pay tax here, not there. Same would be true for a Canadian. You would be entitled to same consideration as normally shown out of stater at that location. Some locations have very high sales tax, other locations (Delaware) have no sales tax. Some have no tax on clothes and food (Pennsyllvania), and some no tax on just food (NY). It really doesn't matter what Canadian policy is, what is news is that there is a change. It may or may not effect tourism. It sounds like tourism has already been effected by outisde events since 2000. That is what is news.

[Wilber]

No, if I buy something at a store in Washington there is no mechanism to get the state tax back. As an Alaska resident all I had to do was show my ID to the retailer and sign a form. What you say is true of the Ebay purchases I have made and you could probably avoid the state tax on a vehicle as long as you didn't register it until it was out of the country but I don't know for sure. Of course I have to pay PST and GST as soon as I bring it into Canada.

For a Washington State resident all he has to do is take his receipts into the Canadian duty free where he crosses back into the US and he will get his tax refunded.

[Wilber]

As to Duty Free Shops, they are largely a scam. The last time I crossed the land border between Quebec and New York, the prices on booze were little different from the SAQ. In airports, the rent is so high that prices are similar. In European airports, there is no duty free booze for internal flights.

I have never understood why people who fly on airplanes should be exempt from paying tax. If anything, I'd charge them more.

I buy my return booze on the way down. It is much cheaper than in BC. When you count in exchange it is also cheaper than the duty free on the US side. I buy the stuff I drink in the US in the US. People who fly only get the same exemptions as the people who drive based on how long they were out of the country.

[guyser]

Unfortunately, paying GST refunds to foreign tourists is an invitation to fraud and it's an administrative nightmare. (While Uncle Ahmed is visiting from the UK, you buy the widescreen TV and then Ahmed, once back in Basingstoke, to mail in the receipt for a refund.) It makes more sense to cancel the GST refund.

.

Since it has been in existence for many years , and has shown not to be a admin nightmare , why not leave well enough alone.

Also, Ahmed would also include his Customs papers to show he took it with him. So no go on that one.

Its not a invitation to fraud.

[BayLee]

Since it has been in existence for many years , and has shown not to be a admin nightmare , why not leave well enough alone.

Exactly

And right wingers accused the LIBs of being anti american

Just look at people like Canadian Blue who say we should cheat American tourists of their money??

[geoffrey]

Since it has been in existence for many years , and has shown not to be a admin nightmare , why not leave well enough alone.

Also, Ahmed would also include his Customs papers to show he took it with him. So no go on that one.

Its not a invitation to fraud.

It is an invitation to fraud, you merely have to show your receipt, not any supporting export documentation. What of the cheeseburger I ate in Toronto when I'm from Buffalo?

We need to close the tax loopholes and evasion areas in our system and make it far more simple, this is a good step.

[Catchme]

Well I just googled the value added tax, that guyser mentioned. It appears NOT to be the same thing at all in compare to the GST.

For example below:

An entitlement for the return of tax does not arise in the type of goods such as, hydrocarbon fuels and greases, tobacco products, alcoholic beverages, foods and other goods stated in the numeric code of the Harmonised system

http://www.cs.mfcr.cz/CmsGrc/Cestovani-a-n...-chovat/vat.htm

And you only get it back on other purchases not made in the Republic and for amounts over 2500, at one time.

Then this about the EU program:

Most European governments impose a value-added tax or VAT—a national sales tax of sorts—on goods and services. It's usually about 20 percent and is buried in the price. Although non Europeans often qualify for a partial refund of this tax, they leave roughly a half-billion dollars in refundable VAT unclaimed each year. Generally, travelers are entitled to refunds of the tax on merchandise only—in other words, on the kind of stuff that can be exported. Business travelers, on the other hand, can receive VAT refunds on their vehicle rentals, their gasoline and diesel fuel, and even on their lodging and meals

http://www.ideamerge.com/motoeuropa/vat/chapter/index.html

No, not the same as GST rebates except in the broadest way.

GST has nothing to do with there being a 28% decline in tourism. Nor will taking the rebate away cause more decline.

[Borg]

In the end, if we piss off the tourist - for whatever reason - they will not come back.

Are we prepared to see that Yankee buck stay away?

Ask those in the business if they would like to see an increase or a decrease in tourism. Oh, and ask those who are employed in the tourism industry if they value their jobs.

Borg

[scribblet]

That's the sprit.

Just because your on the border, doesn't mean your customers should pay less than those customers 100km North.

What is the rationale, besides a subsidy, to charge foreigners less than Canadians on the same good.

I believe it is to help increase tourism, most countries allow visitors to reclaim some tax, Britain allows the VAT to be reclaimed. Nothing nefarious about it -

[Drea]

In the end, if we piss off the tourist - for whatever reason - they will not come back.

Are we prepared to see that Yankee buck stay away?

Ask those in the business if they would like to see an increase or a decrease in tourism. Oh, and ask those who are employed in the tourism industry if they value their jobs.

Borg

And just how have we "pissed off" American tourists?

I mean really, we have a conservative gov't now (not that 90% of Americans know anyway) so being "liberal" isn't the issue...

We have troops in Afghanistan so not supporting America's "war on terror" isn't the issue...

Our dollar is still a bargain (save 15%) so that isn't the issue...

What exacly IS the issue Borg? And how can we, as Canadians get them to come back?

[ft.niagara]

What exacly IS the issue Borg? And how can we, as Canadians get them to come back?

I think like the article says, it is a number of things, SARS, the border, the lines, the value of the dollar (prices in Canada tend to be much higher), a liberal antiAmerican perception of Canada.

[Drea]

I think like the article says, it is a number of things, SARS, the border, the lines, the value of the dollar (prices in Canada tend to be much higher), a liberal antiAmerican perception of Canada.

Ah yes, SARS... I remember a few years ago, a school teacher from the states was going to take her class to Vancouver (BC) but didn't because of the outbreak of SARS in Toronto. Not knowing, of course, that TO and Vancouver are 3,000 kms apart! LOL

Ah yes, the border... it's still safer for an American to come to Canada than visa versa. Just the other day on Global National a woman (blonde blue-eyed) reported that she was harassed by American border guards. I have yet to hear of an American citizen being harassed by a Canadian border guard.

Ah yes, the lines... with all that border security (forced upon us by the US Admin) there are bound to be lineups -- but no worse than the lineups for Space Mtn in Disneyland so I fail to see this as a real problem.

Ah yes, the high loonie... Americans are just going to have to get used to their "dollar store" (Canada) having had a price increase. LOL

Ah yes, the liberal antiAmerican perception of Canada... you mean the liberal anti American perception of the rest of the world surely! The world and Canada are on the same page -- only the US and Isreal are stuck reading the table of contents LOL

[ft.niagara]

Ah yes, the border... it's still safer for an American to come to Canada than visa versa. Just the other day on Global National a woman (blonde blue-eyed) reported that she was harassed by American border guards. I have yet to hear of an American citizen being harassed by a Canadian border guard.

Yes the hastle is not likely on the Canadian side of the border, but on the American side. One American woman I know was telling me a story of how she was badly treated by an Amercian woman border guard. She is an over sixty, probably over seventy year old woman who was stopped for a couple of hours. In the course of the event she put back on her perscription sunglasses to see, and she was yelled at for doing so. "I didn't say you could..."

The "Ah yes" theme of your reply speaks of sarcasm, but you asked the question, and I only responded to it with probably the true reasons as listed in the article. It is too bad, but tourism, including air transportation has taken a hit from all this Arab unhappyness. Air transportation's advantage used to be speed of travel, but not as much anymore. Security has become a new unionized industry. It has given alot of people great power and good paying jobs to be pricks. Thank your beloved Arabs for that. You are only witnessing the result of their tinkering.

[Liam]

Ah yes, the liberal antiAmerican perception of Canada... you mean the liberal anti American perception of the rest of the world surely! The world and Canada are on the same page -- only the US and Isreal are stuck reading the table of contents LOL

Just playing Devil's advocate, but do you think that maybe if Canadians stopped setting up their largest market for tourists and international business visitors as being separate from them (and the rest of the world), that Americans might actually feel a little more welcome to visit and do business in Canada?

Having been in a relationship with a Canadian and visiting Canada numerous times and residing in the bluest of Blue America (Boston, MA, as opposed to "Jesusland"), I have absolutely nothing against Canada. If anything, I fall deep within the category of people who "hate" Bush. But I have to also point out that being continuously harangued by Canadians as being outside the mainstream of global thought does not endear Canada or Canadians to me. Frankly, it's insulting and that attitude (coupled with all the smug superiority flowing down from Canada on a routine basis) just doesn't make me want to spend any money inside your borders.

Think about it this way: if, as an American, I'm going to be on the receiving end of anti-American bigotry when I travel outside the US, should I be spend my time and money along the Cote d'Azur or in Toronto?

[Drea]

Just playing Devil's advocate, but do you think that maybe if Canadians stopped setting up their largest market for tourists and international business visitors as being separate from them (and the rest of the world), that Americans might actually feel a little more welcome to visit and do business in Canada?

Liam, I'm not understanding the meaning you are trying to get across.

I'm sorry for coming across as sarcastic. The world (and a good many Americans) are sick and tired of the rhetoric coming from the Bush League. The sooner they are outta there the better and hopefully America will get back to being her real self instead of this paranoid/war mongering Bush America.

Ft. Niagra you are buying into the notion that arabs caused all our problems -- not so. This "war in Iraq" and "war on terror" were in the works long before 911. Don't be fooled, arabs are certainly not out to terrorize us all.

I apologize for anti-Amercian bigotry, but it's now worldwide and nothing is going to stop it. The world is looking at America and not liking what it sees anymore. That is not the fault of the rest of the world, that is the fault of the current US policy and how it has been percieved around the world.

[ft.niagara]

Ft. Niagra you are buying into the notion that arabs caused all our problems -- not so. This "war in Iraq" and "war on terror" were in the works long before 911. And all our governments are complicit. Don't be fooled, arabs are certainly not out to terrorize us all.

I am sorry to disagree. Someone flew those planes into the WTC. That was an emotionally traumatic event. If you think of a country as an individual, think of RAPE and you can get a parallel. Those who flew those planes, until someone finds a smoking gun otherwise, was done by ARABS, mostly out of the home of Islam Saudi Arabia. Sorry, but the good ol' days are gone.

[Drea]

FT Niagra, instead of painting all arabs with the "terrorist brush" -- why not just say it like it is.

People from Saudi Arabia flew planes into the buildings.

Not all arabs are bad people, just as not all Americans support GW Bush's policies.

[margrace]

I don't know, one of our most expensive hotels here was at 95% capacity last night, you think they were all Canadians?

[ft.niagara]

FT Niagra, instead of painting all arabs with the "terrorist brush" -- why not just say it like it is.

People from Saudi Arabia flew planes into the buildings.

Of course not all Arabs are terrorists, but given the one billion moslims, and their propensity towards terrorism because of some tenents in their religion fostering hatred to other religions, their xenophobic nature, their inbreed thinking though their madrassa schools, and their control of the oil, we in the west are in peril because of them. One billion is one thousand million. One percent of one billion is ten million. There are easily one percent fanatics within Islim. And yes, they have painted themselves with the terrorist brush.

Probably things are not as bad as I might say, or as good as you might say.

[ft.niagara]

I don't know, one of our most expensive hotels here was at 95% capacity last night, you think they were all Canadians?

Good news that the hotel was doing well, however, as quoted in the newspaper article, some Canadians businesses are noticing a drop off.

[guyser]

Having been in a relationship with a Canadian and visiting Canada numerous times and residing in the bluest of Blue America (Boston, MA, as opposed to "Jesusland"), I have absolutely nothing against Canada. If anything, I fall deep within the category of people who "hate" Bush. But I have to also point out that being continuously harangued by Canadians as being outside the mainstream of global thought does not endear Canada or Canadians to me. Frankly, it's insulting and that attitude (coupled with all the smug superiority flowing down from Canada on a routine basis) just doesn't make me want to spend any money inside your borders.

Think about it this way: if, as an American, I'm going to be on the receiving end of anti-American bigotry when I travel outside the US, should I be spend my time and money along the Cote d'Azur or in Toronto?

Take the Cote d'Azur between Nov and April .

You nailed it Liam.

There is far too much smug superiority coming from this side of the border. Far too often we do not mind our own business. That is sad. Those that insult you as being "outside the mainstream thought" have probably been outside the mainstream thought their whole lives.

Sometimes this country is so childish it is embarassing. Yet, at times our childish indignancy has a basis. We have been blamed for allowing 9-11 terrorists to cross our borders, blamed for putting 50 million people in the dark in August of 2004, Bush and his cronies knew of a very secure and safe haven for hundreds of US airplanes at personal individual Canadians expense ,yet he forgot all about it when thanking people.Suspected international airplanes carrying explosives were en route to the USA and the US govt

forced them to land in our country.

And then we have our politicos spouting off their collective dumb ass mouths against the US. It may be tit for tat, but that is never the solution and should always be discouraged by the party in power.

I travel to New York state quit a bit. I have been in many a discussion with my neighbours there, and frankly the level of knowledge displayed by those that want a discussion is on par with my countryman. It seems, and I say this with some trepidation, is that stupidity knows no bounds.It is true that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

I hope you return, as much or more than I hope we all learn to be proper neighbours. We are friends first as people and we should never forget that. The Govs of both nations are no more than political business machines. It is the people who have the heart, it is the people who have the will to help. This is seen on so many levels between both countries. The number of American donations, be it in people or machines that came to assist Ottawa, Montreal and area during the ice storm is legion, as is the number of people and machines that helped out Buffalo in the great snow storm, or down Louisiana after Katrina

We can be forgetful,yet we should not be. It was the giant American media machine that gave us a Gold Medal with Sale and Pelletier , it was Cdns opening their homes and supplying beds food and shelter to American travellers during 9-11.We have towns that have a border going right through the cafe in town, the daily commute from one country to another to get home necessitated by the fact that you have to do so.

We are great neighbours as neither one of "us" goes to bed at night wondering what might happen . I am not so sure that is the case with border states, and specifically border towns along the Rio Grande and the rest of the US/Mexico border.

So in essence we do have to learn to shut up , or at least ramp down the BS .

Heres hoping you are returning and soon.

[Liam]

Just playing Devil's advocate, but do you think that maybe if Canadians stopped setting up their largest market for tourists and international business visitors as being separate from them (and the rest of the world), that Americans might actually feel a little more welcome to visit and do business in Canada?

Liam, I'm not understanding the meaning you are trying to get across.

I'm sorry for coming across as sarcastic. The world (and a good many Americans) are sick and tired of the rhetoric coming from the Bush League. The sooner they are outta there the better and hopefully America will get back to being her real self instead of this paranoid/war mongering Bush America.

Before I respond, I have one observation. I live in Massachusetts and we are a major audience for Canada's tourism industry. This time of year is when Canada's tourism board usually starts promoting the summer travel season. I have not seen one commercial or print ad promoting Canada as a vacation destination this year. Strange.

OK, to address Drea, sorry I was PUI the other night -- posting under the influence. Blame it that extra glass of wine after dinner on a weekend night.

The point I was trying to make is that even middle of the road and left-leaning Americans can't help but get tired of the daily flow of insults aimed at America from around the world. Sure, the insults are aimed at Bush -- at least initially. Eventually the conversation turns and ends up with hurled insults at Americans generally. We know our president $ucks -- it's pretty self evident. But we don't need you to remind us daily. (There are an awful lot of us trying to undo the damage that Bush and his Christianist cronies have done, by the way.) We know there are too many of us without healthcare, we know that Katrina exposed huge divisions in income. Thanks for the memo.

My point is that as a potential host nation to American tourists, it really doesn't serve Canada all that much to be routinely told by Canadians that Americans are not at all in sync with their host.

One major asset Canada's tourism industry has is that Canada is next door to the enormous and lucrative US travel market and the barriers to travel to Canada by Americans (cost, time, language differences, etc.) are relatively small as compared to more distant destinations. Canada has two choices, it can smile and put down the welcome mat, or it can act smug and distant and make its larget market feel isolated.

I am someone Canada could easily lure as a tourist. I live in Boston, only an hour flight from Toronto, maybe a five hour drive to Montreal. My company is owned by a Canadian conglomerate. I work with Canadians. I dated a Canadian ex-pat. I routinely meet Candians vacationing here in Boston and on Cape Cod. I have vacationed in Canada a handful of times as a kid and am really curious about going back. But, frankly, the draw of vacationing in Canada is not so strong as to outweigh the sense of dysfunction within our North American family. All things being equal, if I am to vacation someplace where it is rumored that the locals are semi-unfriendly to Americans, do you think I will be spending my money on Rue Ste. Honore or in Eaton Centre? If you ask me, Canada would empty a lot more American pockets if it put on a friendly face.

[Wilber]

Excellent post guyser