Marijuana In Canada

[KO2]

Facts

http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v07/n825/a07.html

[jbg]

Jesus.. I thought pot was supposed to make you mellow.. KO2 has enough anger in him.. maybe we should all be thankful that he smokes instead of drinks.

holy anger issues batman..

KO2 is potentially one of our best posters. He's eloquent, well-reasoned and to the point.

[KO2]

Yeah, I'm a chronic toker.

To judge and dismiss my life, because of that, as you do with millions of other normal, worthy of not being criminalized human beings, is blatant bigotry.

The most recent scientific evidence is that it may make you more perceptive in certain areas. (You expend the energy to look it up. I get a lot of info direct from the scientists being interviewed on CBC radio As It Happens. I have a great memory for facts and catch every nuance of the conversation)

Here is another personal true anecdote. My life provides my truth for me, I don't need to go further than the reasoned lessons learned in my life for the best examples of truth.

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2007/03/356379.shtml

You have to imagine that I was smoking a joint of good "train-wreck" when on the TV comes the commissioner of the RCMP, the Federal Police Force up here in the land of Cannabis.

He, The Federal Minister of Public Safety, and also the Federal Minister of Justice were all trying like hell to link the tragic murders of 4 RCMP officers to Pot Growers.

The Canada Hate Crimes Act states in part B that; no person shall use the Public Airwaves to generate hatred for any readily identifiable group.

This is also exactly what the broadcasting act states.

We have a regulator of our airwaves the CRTC.

I emailed the CRTC while still under the influence (actually after I boged another big one in celebration) and then changed broadcasting history in this country.

I could legally complain as a member of the "Readily Identifiable Group"-- marijuana producers. I gave them the file number of my production charges and by law they were bound to act.

Dopey stoner that I was, (boy was I high!- hillarious with ironic laughter when I saw that I had snagged them,) I none the less did it all without legal advice and any experience in the law.

Also I garnered a retraction of his statements and an apology from the Commissioner of the RCMP in 3 days. (He was breaking the law)(in another case in which the Commish was forced to apologize for his actions it took a team of lawyers three years to do it.)

I also never needed to spend a cent on a lawer to get off, with 30 hours community time/ simple possession, on charges that would have gotten me 25 years in the states.

No one else in this country of 35 million people saw this blatant crime happening before their eyes.

Not a single stone cold sober person, judge, lawyer including the two lawyers who were Federal Ministers, were on the ball enough to come up with the obvious observation, that a doper high on pot could spot in an instant.

Now my friend those are also personal facts (annecdotes) recorded in history.

So call me an impaired stoner all you want, but the evidence I have created in my life personally, does not define me as being impaired, or stupid, or even a couch potatoe, or any of the labels you like to hang on those you wish to denegrate.

If I was impaired cognitively, judmentally, at the time, just what would you label the rest of the entire population of Canada as?

Asleep at the switch?

I wouldn't mind a single fact supporting your contentions, if it comes from a proven authority, even if it isn't yourself, please.

Edited July 11, 2007 by KO2

[jbg]

Yeah, I'm a chronic toker.

I'm a joker

I'm a smoker

I'm a midnight toker

I sure don't want to hurt no one

- Steve Miller Band - The Joker

[Michael Bluth]

From the mission statement of the Web site containing KO2's "facts".

We exist to provide accurate information relevant to drug policy in order to heighten awareness of the extreme damage being caused to our nation and the world by our current flawed and failed "War on Drugs."

What an utterly unbiased source of facts.

[KO2]

Only a harper you are, always ready to pounce with idiocy, never any facts.

Have you not done anything in your life except live vicariously in other people's as a critic?

Got no life of your own to base experience on.

Maybe you should stand up in Iraq as a true parrot patriot, another propaganda opportunity from your moronic masters that requires you to march to their tune.

I'm proud of the way stoners like me will eventually prevail over morons.

We will have repealed prohibition just by consuming tons of pot and overgrowing the crappy government!

Oh what fun that is!

Things that complainers and critics can only criticize and complain about, while we make it happen.

Let me just fire one up right now and have a good laugh at the laws and those mindless minions who love to be told what is what, because they can't figure it out for themselves!

Good morning America!

Get a grip on reality, leave a little enjoyment for the rest of us.

Boy is that BC pot ever good!

Maybe its your inferior American grown swag that causes your stoners to be stupider than us Canadians.

We do amazing things while high and have the documentation to prove it.

How bright is the average American anyways?

A few guys with boxcutters took you down quite a few notches, while you spend trillions on your military.

Perhaps we should send some BC bud to your government so that they might find solutions for the quagmire that they have created, oh great ones?

Now you've got something else to work on and criticize.

Have fun!

And how do I know there will be no facts forthcoming from you?

Edited July 11, 2007 by KO2

[runningdog]

Yeah, I'm a chronic toker.

To judge and dismiss my life, because of that, as you do with millions of other normal, worthy of not being criminalized human beings, is blatant bigotry.

The most recent scientific evidence is that it may make you more perceptive in certain areas. (You expend the energy to look it up. I get a lot of info direct from the scientists being interviewed on CBC radio As It Happens. I have a great memory for facts and catch every nuance of the conversation)

Here is another personal true anecdote. My life provides my truth for me, I don't need to go further than the reasoned lessons learned in my life for the best examples of truth.

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2007/03/356379.shtml

You have to imagine that I was smoking a joint of good "train-wreck" when on the TV comes the commissioner of the RCMP, the Federal Police Force up here in the land of Cannabis.

He, The Federal Minister of Public Safety, and also the Federal Minister of Justice were all trying like hell to link the tragic murders of 4 RCMP officers to Pot Growers.

The Canada Hate Crimes Act states in part B that; no person shall use the Public Airwaves to generate hatred for any readily identifiable group.

This is also exactly what the broadcasting act states.

We have a regulator of our airwaves the CRTC.

I emailed the CRTC while still under the influence (actually after I boged another big one in celebration) and then changed broadcasting history in this country.

I could legally complain as a member of the "Readily Identifiable Group"-- marijuana producers. I gave them the file number of my production charges and by law they were bound to act.

Dopey stoner that I was, (boy was I high!- hillarious with ironic laughter when I saw that I had snagged them,) I none the less did it all without legal advice and any experience in the law.

Also I garnered a retraction of his statements and an apology from the Commissioner of the RCMP in 3 days. (He was breaking the law)(in another case in which the Commish was forced to apologize for his actions it took a team of lawyers three years to do it.)

I also never needed to spend a cent on a lawer to get off, with 30 hours community time/ simple possession, on charges that would have gotten me 25 years in the states.

No one else in this country of 35 million people saw this blatant crime happening before their eyes.

Not a single stone cold sober person, judge, lawyer including the two lawyers who were Federal Ministers, were on the ball enough to come up with the obvious observation, that a doper high on pot could spot in an instant.

Now my friend those are also personal facts (annecdotes) recorded in history.

So call me an impaired stoner all you want, but the evidence I have created in my life personally, does not define me as being impaired, or stupid, or even a couch potatoe, or any of the labels you like to hang on those you wish to denegrate.

If I was impaired cognitively, judmentally, at the time, just what would you label the rest of the entire population of Canada as?

Asleep at the switch?

I wouldn't mind a single fact supporting your contentions, if it comes from a proven authority, even if it isn't yourself, please.

right on. Exploring the history of both big oil and big pharma and their efforts to keep pot illegal is proving to be a very interesting read.

[Riverwind]

An interesting editorial in the National Post (not exactly the rag of choice for the birkenstock crowd).

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/ed...4d-97d90da5d975

If Canada had rates of alcohol consumption that were more than four times the world average, the fact would be written in fire in dozens of different tables of medical and social statistics. You could tell from our auto-accident rates, from our rates of cirrhosis of the liver or even from family violence statistics, that we had a propensity for a very dangerous and nasty substance. If Canada had four times as many tobacco smokers as the average country, you could easily extract the news and quantify it to two decimal places from our statistics on cancer and cardiac health, or indeed from overall life-expectancy figures.

But where is the health "footprint" of our love for the weed? Maybe it's hidden in our labour productivity statistics; it certainly doesn't seem to have any impact on our life expectancy or our other measurable health outcomes. Despite dauntingly high ostensible rates of use, and despite the hazards of adulteration and intensification that are attendant upon cannabis's illegal status, we don't seem to be doing ourselves any major harm from a long experiment in comparative weed tolerance.

The editorial leaves off with the rather important point:

That would seem to leave very little, aside from the omnipresent trade and travel considerations that come from being a neighbour of the U.S., to stand logically in the way of decriminalization.

[jdobbin]

An interesting editorial in the National Post (not exactly the rag of choice for the birkenstock crowd).

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/news/ed...4d-97d90da5d975

I just finished reading that editorial a few hours ago.

It makes sense not to go after users. It should be decriminalized and police efforts should be directed at real drug problems.

[KO2]

It made sense 4 decades ago before had the huge increase in global organized crime.

And today it makes sense to repeal all prohibition laws in order to cut organized crime out of the loosing equation concerning lawlessness caused by prohibition.

Criminal Federal law is not the way to win at personal human health issues, which addiction to any substance, or detrimental habit basically is.

The only reason Governments got involved was because of fear mongering from temperance movements.

Once the laws were in place they serve a variety of oppressions, including race, economic, and social.

They certainly have been proven to work contrary to their stated aims, a safer society.

There can be no other way.

[Riverwind]

And today it makes sense to repeal all prohibition laws in order to cut organized crime out of the loosing equation concerning lawlessness caused by prohibition.

Canada has no control over the laws in the US. If Canada makes growing Marijuana legal then it will become the destination of choice for organized crime groups that wish to export to the US.

[Guest coot]

Canada has no control over the laws in the US. If Canada makes growing Marijuana legal then it will become the destination of choice for organized crime groups that wish to export to the US.

Not if it made just growing a few plants legal and kept large operations illegal. Then it would have absolutely no effect on exports to the US.

[KO2]

Sooner or later the Americans will have no choice when all their money is gone and there is no more room in their jails.

Then in order to pay their war debts to China they may have to reverse their strategy and actully push drugs to make the money to pay-off their Chineese masters.

If only we could get on with building that fence to keep everything bad out of America, and Americans in?

Edited July 11, 2007 by KO2

[Riverwind]

Not if it made just growing a few plants legal and kept large operations illegal. Then it would have absolutely no effect on exports to the US.

Then you are not really legalizing it. Banning large operations would give us the worst of both worlds: the increased social costs from more widespread use and organized crime to support the smugglers.

[KO2]

"Banning large operations would give us the worst of both worlds: the increased social costs from more widespread use and organized crime to support the smugglers."

Are you daft Mon?

What gives you the impression that this is not happening to the full extent necessary to provide the current market right now?

You talk as if we were contemplating moving from a model that is working to one that is worse.

Just how does one explain the obvious to an argumentative blind man?

Windyriver you are a true dogmatic, letting all reason flow over you.

Your arguments are incohesive. They are they idiocy that has dogged your country at every level and will finally be the foundation of your demise.

We are talking a benign substance which would add benefits to your society if you switched from alcohol to pot in every area.

The rest of the hard drugs are only as prevalent as they are, because they are a product of crime driven addiction.

Take the organized criminal element out of it by prescribing whatever anyone needed.

Then the next generation is not hooked in order to pay for this generations addict's habits.

What is your problem?

Just plain stupid from going straight too long?

Or are you making money in the drug trade?

Or you don't want to see less addicts and suffering?

[Riverwind]

What gives you the impression that this is not happening to the full extent necessary to provide the current market right now?

Marijuana is a drug that people can become addicted to. The fact that it is illegal reduces the number of people willing to use it. Making it legal will cause the number of users and addicts to increase. This cost might be worth paying if it was possible to eliminate the crime. Unfortunately, making the drug legal in Canada would likely lead to an increase in crime related to smuggling to the US.

You can deny it if you like like but legalizing pot in Canada is not a pratical option as long as the US maintains it ban.

[KO2]

"Marijuana is a drug that people can become addicted to. The fact that it is illegal reduces the number of people willing to use it. Making it legal will cause the number of users and addicts to increase. This cost might be worth paying if it was possible to eliminate the crime."

Marijuana is the least addictive and harmful of the recreational drugs.

Your theory doesn't hold water. The UN gave the figures!

The highest rates of use are in the countries with prohibition laws'

Holland where Marijuana is quasi legal has one of the lowest rates of use and dropping.

Do you think that because you repeat bullshit often, it will become the truth?

Or can you not put one and one together?

[gc1765]

Banning large operations would give us the worst of both worlds: the increased social costs from more widespread use and organized crime to support the smugglers.

The advantages would be that we wouldn't be arresting people who are not really doing any harm to anyone else, as well as the decrease in cost of enforcing the ban on marijuana. The only disadvantage would be increased usage, but consenting adults should be able to make that decision for themselves. If they want to use it, that's their choice. It's not as if we will see a huge increase either. People who are going to smoke pot on a daily basis do so already. The increase in usage will likely be for social reasons (i.e. on weekends), and may quite possibly lead to less alcohol use, which would be a good thing.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Anyways, if the U.S. doesn't want marijuana to be legal in Canada because of smuggling, how about they make guns illegal so that they don't get smuggled into Canada? If I had the choice between marijuana being smuggled into my country, or guns being smuggled, I'd choose marijuana any day.

[Riverwind]

Marijuana is the least addictive and harmful of the recreational drugs.

People still become addicts and find that that their lives fall apart because of it. The negative effects of Marijuana last much longer than other drugs because the THC builds up in fat tissue. Drink too much alcohol - you will be hung over but sober the next morning. Smoke too much dope you will still be high 2 or 3 days later.

Make the drug legal and the rates of use will go up - your are silly to suggest otherwise.

[guyser]

Marijuana is a drug that people can become addicted to.

Never seen a study come to that conclusion. I recall a mental addiction of sorts, but not medically addictive.

Unfortunately, making the drug legal in Canada would likely lead to an increase in crime related to smuggling to the US.

I have had a feeling that the US has leaned heavily on Can NOT to legalize/decriminalize pot for years. We are chickens . If smuggling to the US is a problem, they have the problem, not us.We have a prob with their guns , so be it.

You can deny it if you like like but legalizing pot in Canada is not a pratical option as long as the US maintains it ban.

Only due to invisible sanctions.

As for KO2.....you might not realize that there are likely a number of people on here who agree with you on this issue, who otherwise wont speak up due to your posting style, denigrating all.....examples...

Are you daft Mon?

Just how does one explain the obvious to an argumentative blind man?

What is your problem?

Just plain stupid from going straight too long?

As for me, I am fairly well read on the subject and find that there is no plausible reason for keeping it illegal, and thus should be de or totally legal.

But I dont think I want you as my pitchman. The other side entrenches when you speak.

[Riverwind]

Anyways, if the U.S. doesn't want marijuana to be legal in Canada because of smuggling, how about they make guns illegal so that they don't get smuggled into Canada? If I had the choice between marijuana being smuggled into my country, or guns being smuggled, I'd choose marijuana any day.

Canada needs open borders with the US more than the US needs open borders with Canada. It is the inescapable reality of having 1/10th the population. We can lecture them as much as we want on the moral equivalance of guns and dope but that is not going to stop them from putting barriers to trade.

[gc1765]

I realize that, I was just pointing out how ridiculous it sounds.

[guyser]

People still become addicts and find that that their lives fall apart because of it.

No they dont.

And any lives falling apart are due to their lives already falling apart, not because of the pot. IOW, they were on the fast track to Nowheresville.....and they are on the same track just now smoking a doobie.

The negative effects of Marijuana last much longer than other drugs because the THC builds up in fat tissue. Drink too much alcohol - you will be hung over but sober the next morning. Smoke too much dope you will still be high 2 or 3 days later.

Where did you get that from? It is so off the wall. Any imbibment impairs, but to suggest that one is still stoned the next morning is ludicrous.

How do you answer the fact there has NEVER been a single case of overdosing on pot? Can one say the same about booze?

Make the drug legal and the rates of use will go up - your are silly to suggest otherwise.

Straight from the Temperance manual?

Recall that one could not get a drink at a stadium watching the Leafs . Did usage go up after they approved beer for sale? Nope.

Cigarettes are legal and usage is going down. How can that be when you just posted that it would go up.Wherever you are getting your info is wrong.

[Riverwind]

Never seen a study come to that conclusion. I recall a mental addiction of sorts, but not medically addictive.

Whether it is chemical or pychological is irrevelvent - people still get addicted and society has to deal with the consequences of that addiction. In some ways dope is less toxic than alcohol (never heard of a death by dope poisoning). OTOH, it takes a lot longer to get over the effects of a dope addiction.

If smuggling to the US is a problem, they have the problem, not us.We have a prob with their guns , so be it.

The trouble is the US can easily make it our problem.

[KO2]

OK buddy have your say, but I certainly don't suffer fools well whose idiocty has been personally oppressing me for 2/3 of my lifetime!

You may wish to beg for these blockhead's approval, not I.

The other thing about me being the reason for other people not posting here:

first, are you omniprescient too?

Second the closet tokers who might be afraid to enter a forum where the truth is being passionately spoken should develop some metal.

Don't blame me with lame excuses conjured up because you feel a bit threatened by my blatant honesty and true self experienced facts and understandings.

If "they"-those who you propose to speek for-are afraid of saying anything in such a dynamic battle between reason and plain Propaganda, it could be because they have nothing to say.

40 years I heard this bullshit and have had it inside and out.

Does every fool believe his crap is fact because someone told them so?

And if so must we respect them and their reasoning skills?

I've been ruled by morons who have labeled me stupid long enough. Patience doesn't come easy.