Tories Announce Energy Efficiency Plan

[Ricki Bobbi]

So the Conservatives have announced another part of their environmental plan. Link.

The Liberals are stuck between lame jokes and crying *they are robbing our ideas.*

The latter was the whine du jour of the divided right IIRC.

Here's the lame joke of the day.

In a shot at the environment minister, Bob Rae, who is working on Liberal campaign strategy, said the government is now doing what he calls the "Baird minimum" while trying to look green.

Baird = bare. BAH, get the joke! Actually Bob you are the joke...

[geoffrey]

It's an improved energuide for sure... but it's still founded on energuide.

I'm curious about what the cost was of cutting energuide to just bring it back later. All that severance pay for people we're just going to rehire isn't going to be cheap... let alone all of the other costs.

The smart plan would been to restructure energuide, beef it up, change it to suit the CPC's goals. Not fire everyone, dismantle the program and rebuild from the ground a month or two later.

[Ricki Bobbi]

It's an improved energuide for sure... but it's still founded on energuide.

It's a plan that replaced energuide. So of course there are some elements of the plan. Founded on? What does that mean?

I'm curious about what the cost was of cutting energuide to just bring it back later. All that severance pay for people we're just going to rehire isn't going to be cheap... let alone all of the other costs.

Doubtful there would have been much actual jobs lost over this. The strength of the Public Service Alliance of Canada and all.

My guess is that the free energy audits, which drove a lot of the costs of Energuide, won't be a feature of the new program.

The smart plan would been to restructure energuide, beef it up, change it to suit the CPC's goals. Not fire everyone, dismantle the program and rebuild from the ground a month or two later.

Has it been founded on energuide or has the program been rebuilt?

Get your timing right. Energuide was cancelled with the last budgets. 10 months is a lot more than one or two..

[jdobbin]

It's an improved energuide for sure... but it's still founded on energuide.

Basically the Liberal plan re-announced, right?

[madmax]

Get your timing right. Energuide was cancelled with the last budgets. 10 months is a lot more than one or two..

Then 10 months were wasted, to input something pretty much intact that was dismantled.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Then 10 months were wasted, to input something pretty much intact that was dismantled.

How much money will be saved by getting rid of the free energy audits???

Nobody has seen the program, how do you know it was "pretty much intact"?

[geoffrey]

Then 10 months were wasted, to input something pretty much intact that was dismantled.

How much money will be saved by getting rid of the free energy audits???

Nobody has seen the program, how do you know it was "pretty much intact"?

There is trouble without the audits. We're basically going to be handing cash to people to improve their houses' efficiency, which is great. But we'll never been able to tell how much it's improved, or if it's improved at all.

[Ricki Bobbi]

There is trouble without the audits. We're basically going to be handing cash to people to improve their houses' efficiency, which is great. But we'll never been able to tell how much it's improved, or if it's improved at all.

How much money was handed to people for audits?

What if people have to pay for their own audits to take part in the program?

[geoffrey]

What if people have to pay for their own audits to take part in the program?

Then no one will use the program and it'll be a complete waste of time.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Then no one will use the program and it'll be a complete waste of time.

What about people having to pay up front with that mony being refunded if and only if they end up taking part in the program?

Seems like a good solution. Gets rid of the free riders. Then if the numbers are low it will truly prove how *committed* to the economy Canadians are where it matters most, their wallets.

[Canuck E Stan]

It's an improved energuide for sure... but it's still founded on energuide.

Basically the Liberal plan re-announced, right?

How many different ways can you make efficiency in the home "different"?

This will be a big improvement to those that are concerned with the results rather than implementation

Eco-Energy Efficiency Initiative.

He countered claims that the initiative is nothing more than a repackaging of the EnerGuide program, one of the former Liberal government's programs that was cancelled by the Conservatives.

"It's important to note under the old Liberal program, almost 50 cents of every dollar spent went to doing audits and administration," he said.

"But even worse than that, of those people who had the audits done, only 30 per cent of those actually went on to do renovations. Seventy per cent of the people didn't do anything, and nothing was done for the environment."

By comparison, he said the Conservative program will deliver 90 per cent of every dollar spent, to renovations or retrofits. That will have a direct impact on reducing greenhouse gases, Lunn said.

If you're concerned about greenhouse gases you should applaude this plan as doing more to reduce greenhouse gases than the Liberal plan that spent big bucks and big hype with only 30% participation from the public.

[jdobbin]

He countered claims that the initiative is nothing more than a repackaging of the EnerGuide program, one of the former Liberal government's programs that was cancelled by the Conservatives.

"It's important to note under the old Liberal program, almost 50 cents of every dollar spent went to doing audits and administration," he said.

"But even worse than that, of those people who had the audits done, only 30 per cent of those actually went on to do renovations. Seventy per cent of the people didn't do anything, and nothing was done for the environment."

By comparison, he said the Conservative program will deliver 90 per cent of every dollar spent, to renovations or retrofits. That will have a direct impact on reducing greenhouse gases, Lunn said.

If you're concerned about greenhouse gases you should applaude this plan as doing more to reduce greenhouse gases than the Liberal plan that spent big bucks and big hype with only 30% participation from the public.

My understanding of the audits was that they were done because private contractors had previously abused other programs.

I guess we'll find out if that happens this time. There is a reason that Mike Holmes has a successful TV show exposing housing contractor fraud.

[Ricki Bobbi]

My understanding of the audits was that they were done because private contractors had previously abused other programs.

I guess we'll find out if that happens this time. There is a reason that Mike Holmes has a successful TV show exposing housing contractor fraud.

So the Conservatives have created a new program that will be three times as a efficient as the program the Liberals institued.

How is this coming under attack?

Holmes' show exposes fraudulent contractors taking advantage of homeowners. That isn't the type of fraud that would be dealt with in this case.

[geoffrey]

What about people having to pay up front with that mony being refunded if and only if they end up taking part in the program?

Seems like a good solution. Gets rid of the free riders. Then if the numbers are low it will truly prove how *committed* to the economy Canadians are where it matters most, their wallets.

Perhaps for people like you or I Ricki. A $5000 tax credit is nice, it'd certainly help me out and I've got the credit to be able to do that.

But remember the average household income (median) in Canada is around $50-60k a year. How many people can afford to throw 10% of their pre-tax income at renovations to get a tax credit?

What of the other 50% of Canadians that are below that line? They likely have limited access to credit, no ability to make the upgrades or pay for an energy audit out of pocket.

Which again, is fine with me. I don't think fancy furances will make that much of a difference in the big picture. But in actual results? When less than 1/2 of Canada can easily use the program and a much larger share will have to struggle to participate for limited results.

I also haven't seen whether this is a $5000 refundable chunk of cash or merely your typical credit. If it's just a credit to be used against income, then it's completely worthless. No one is going to throw $5k into a fancy furance to get $750 back in a year.

[Canuck E Stan]

No one is going to throw $5k into a fancy furance to get $750 back in a year.

Aren't you the guy who's worried about what's happening to your investments?

I bet you'd be the first to invest $5000 in the stock market if you knew you got back $750 a year.

This is a good investment, both in return on your money , the ecology, and value in your house.

[myata]

It (Energuide) may have been improved - a valid question from CBC reporter to which CPC minister mumbled some vague explanations - why cancel it and reinstate a few months later, rather than improve it?? Or did they counted on memory span of average Canadian lasting less than 6 months?

What it really looks like is that the Boss said "we need an environmenal plan to get our majority" and that is what his loyal ministers could come up with on a short notice. Not much, but better than nothing (or even negative, given cancellation of Liberal programs) compared to their earlier attitutudes to the issue.

[stignasty]

What it really looks like is that the Boss said "we need an environmenal plan to get our majority" and that is what his loyal ministers could come up with on a short notice. Not much, but better than nothing (or even negative, given cancellation of Liberal programs) compared to their earlier attitutudes to the issue.

Or maybe, "We need an environmental plan if we don't want to wind up on the other side of the house again."

The Conservatives were seen as weak on the environment. This is an attempt to neutralize that problem - and to divert people's attention away from the "fiscal imbalance" fiasco.

[tml12]

So the Conservatives have announced another part of their environmental plan. Link.

The Liberals are stuck between lame jokes and crying *they are robbing our ideas.*

The latter was the whine du jour of the divided right IIRC.

Here's the lame joke of the day.

In a shot at the environment minister, Bob Rae, who is working on Liberal campaign strategy, said the government is now doing what he calls the "Baird minimum" while trying to look green.

Baird = bare. BAH, get the joke! Actually Bob you are the joke...

Am I the only one here who thinks it is hilarious that the Liberals are running on the environment?

If I were working for the Harper campaign, I would drill it into people's heads that WHEN THE LIBERALS WERE IN POWER GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS ROSE 25% MORE THAN UNDER GEORGE W. BUSH IN THE U.S.

Case closed.

[stignasty]

Am I the only one here who thinks it is hilarious that the Liberals are running on the environment?

If I were working for the Harper campaign, I would drill it into people's heads that WHEN THE LIBERALS WERE IN POWER GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS ROSE 25% MORE THAN UNDER GEORGE W. BUSH IN THE U.S.

Case closed.

You know what would happen then don't you? It would be something like "LOOK HOW THOSE CONSERVATIVES ARE TURNING TO AN AMERICAN STYLE SMEAR CAMPAIGN!!"

[August1991]

Andrew Coyne expresses my views on this:

The National Post ran a series in the fall of 2005 on the theme, Is Conservatism Dying? The question seemed to me absurd, and in my own contribution I said so. "Oh, dry up," I began, pointing out that the Conservatives controlled five of the ten provinces and were on the cusp of victory federally. "One more heave, and they are over the top," I concluded.

In retrospect I was quite wrong. After a year of Conservative rule, it is now clear, conservatism isn't just dying -- it's dead. And it's the Conservatives who killed it.

It was one thing for their political opponents to denounce conservative ideas. At least they got a hearing, and as often as not the Liberals would steal them. But when Conservatives themselves hasten to renounce them, they have no outlet. And after two decades invested in the Reform experiment, there is nowhere else to go.

...

The more the party has chased the middle, however, the faster it has seemed to recede; with each abandonment of its principles, the opposition and the media, those arbiters of the status quo, simply yawn and move the goalposts a little further down the field. So that even so humiliating a climbdown as the past week's reinstatement of the very Liberal environmental programs the Tories abolished in their first weeks in office wins them no points whatever.

Andrew Coyne

The last thing Canada needs is more social engineering of our tax system and an environmental policy that is all (excuse me) smoke and mirrors.

Nevertheless, I have a little more patience for the Tories yet.

[tml12]

Am I the only one here who thinks it is hilarious that the Liberals are running on the environment?

If I were working for the Harper campaign, I would drill it into people's heads that WHEN THE LIBERALS WERE IN POWER GREENHOUSE GAS EMISSIONS ROSE 25% MORE THAN UNDER GEORGE W. BUSH IN THE U.S.

Case closed.

You know what would happen then don't you? It would be something like "LOOK HOW THOSE CONSERVATIVES ARE TURNING TO AN AMERICAN STYLE SMEAR CAMPAIGN!!"

"American-style smear campaign?" So true stignasty, Paul Martin's TV commercials had real class during the last election...

[fellowtraveller]

What will Dion run on now?

He'll have to run on the environmental issue, there isn't much left for him. And by doing so, he'll hand over the campaign focus the Tories need, since Dion and his Party did so little while he was Environment Minister. I believe the term is 'hoisted on his own petard'.

I think thye next election is for the Tories to lose, not Dions to win.

Really, what can he point to as accomplishments that don't link him heavily to the corrupt Chretien regime?

All he'll have are mistakes the Tories have made and will make before the next election - which is why this might be a good time for Harper to go the people. Actually, the best time would be right after the next budget, when Harper can engineer his own defeat on promises made, not on performance not delivered.

[Ricki Bobbi]

You know what would happen then don't you? It would be something like "LOOK HOW THOSE CONSERVATIVES ARE TURNING TO AN AMERICAN STYLE SMEAR CAMPAIGN!!"

Soldier's in our streets, with guns. I am not making this up. BAH

[tml12]

You know what would happen then don't you? It would be something like "LOOK HOW THOSE CONSERVATIVES ARE TURNING TO AN AMERICAN STYLE SMEAR CAMPAIGN!!"

Soldier's in our streets, with guns. I am not making this up. BAH

LOL my point exactly Ricki Bobbi!

[mikedavid00]

The smart plan would been to restructure energuide, beef it up, change it to suit the CPC's goals. Not fire everyone, dismantle the program and rebuild from the ground a month or two later.

I personally do not believe it's the role of the gov't to be involved in Energuides and such. Appliances and electric devices need to have food label style of regulations.

For instance, I bought an air humidifier to find out it takes 180w of power to run it (i have a device that shows the power usage when plugged into the wall). I'm goign to take it back to the store because try as I might, I could not find the power rating on the box or manuals.

An Energuide to me is just another gov't building filled with white collar welfare and we have to stop looking to big brother to control our lives.

They need to govern Canada and get out of the appliances business. That market will look after itself. And yes I need a furnace and will pay more for the ultra efficient models becuase I"ll make the money back; not because of gov't rebates.