Montreal woman sues oil companies

[geoffrey]

What exactly is she trying to pull here:

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/20...it20070110.html

The plaintiff, Catherine Savoie, asked the court on Wednesday to give her the go-ahead to pursue the lawsuit on behalf of all Quebec motorists, who faced a 1.3 cent litre price increase at the pumps on Jan. 1, 2007.

Not Canadian motorists, but Quebec motorists. Must be a PQ supporter.

She's looking at the wrong people though:

The Quebec Liberal government first proposed the gas levy in June 2006 as a measure to fund the province's climate change program. At the time, representatives from the petroleum industry vowed to protect their companies' bottom line by any means necessary.

She doesn't want to pay the price now, what is she going to say when this levy comes into play?

Another case of people being fundamentalist tree-huggers but unwilling to give up their car based commute (or pay more for it).

This goes even further to prove my point. No tax EVER falls on a corporation, individuals pay each and every tax. So to pretend it's an enviro levy (I'm sure it goes to general funds?) or a corporate tax is just hiding the reality of the situation from people too ignorant to grasp the situation at hand.

The Quebec government is particularly good at it. And as a consequence is a have-not province.

[Riverwind]

This goes even further to prove my point. No tax EVER falls on a corporation, individuals pay each and every tax.

The logic is every weirder in this situtation because the only way to reduce GHGs from automobiles by taxing oil companies it to increase the price. So she is basically saying she wants to impose a 'green tax' on companies that does absolutely nothing to reduce GHGs.

[B. Max]

What exactly is she trying to pull here:

The term surrounded by idiots comes to mind.

[August1991]

What exactly is she trying to pull here:

The term surrounded by idiots comes to mind.

She (and her lawyer) are no idiots.

They are claiming that four oil companies colluded to raise gasoline prices. The pretext is a tax to be imposed and the two have evidence that gasoline prices rose more in Quebec than elsewhere in Canada.

They might get a judge who will give them standing but I question whether it will go anywhere. This would normally by prosecuted under the Competition Act since in Canada, we generally don't use civil suits as in the US.

I dunno. (I heard the lawyer on the radio this afternoon and he sounded sincere but also welcoming of the PR.)

Incidentally, I've seen convincing evidence that the retail gasoline market is among the most competitive markets. Few sellers of a homogenous product have to post their price to the decimal point in giant letters so everyone can see.

It's curious too that in Quebec there's a price floor for gasoline, ostensibly to ensure that independent distributors can survive (!).

[B. Max]

What exactly is she trying to pull here:

The term surrounded by idiots comes to mind.

She (and her lawyer) are no idiots.

They are claiming that four oil companies colluded to raise gasoline prices. The pretext is a tax to be imposed and the two have evidence that gasoline prices rose more in Quebec than elsewhere in Canada.

What collusion, the Quebec government imposed another tax. The oil companies won't eat it they pass it on like the rest of the taxes. If they get a judge to go along with this the oil companies will just sut it down in Quebec. The down stream margin of the oil business is only around two and half percent.

[mikedavid00]

Naturally the CBC runs with the story. Man it's each day they are slamming on the oil sands.

This goes even further to prove my point. No tax EVER falls on a corporation, individuals pay each and every tax.

.

This is called the 'welfare state'. Taxes used to be gathered by terrifs from goods coming into Canada. Thus, if China wanted to send product into Canada, China would have to pay basically for the 'privelage' of having our consumers by from them. This also helped to protect Canadian made goods and keep them competative.

Now taxes are gathered at 50% from common working poor, low income, middle income Canadians to fund our social programs and services.

So to pretend it's an enviro levy (I'm sure it goes to general funds?) or a corporate tax is just hiding the reality of the situation from people too ignorant to grasp the situation at hand.

I agree. The are suing the wrong people. Also Quebec has fixed gas pricing. Gas there is very expensive.

The tried to do similar in California by taxing oil comapnies and people voted AGAINST it even though it was garunteed in writing that prices would not increase. People saw through it. Taxing in any way at the corperate or consumer level is wrong.

[Catchme]

Naturally the CBC runs with the story. Man it's each day they are slamming on the oil sands.

Now that is one huge stretch, the CBC runs a story on a women in PQ suing oil companies, and you connect it to CBC slamming the oil sands!

BTW, what of the other media outlets that carried the story are they slamming the oil sands too?

[Saturn]

I don't know whether you people are literate but you surely didn't read the article in its entirety.

By raising gas prices now, companies stand to pocket an extra five million dollars a week in excess profits, until Quebec's levy takes hold later in the year, and that's not fair to motorists, said Bruce Johnston, a Montreal lawyer representing Savoie.

The problem is not the levy, the CBC or the PQ. The problem is that the oil companies decided to apply the levy before it came into effect and pocket the money. As far as I can tell, the oil companies are to blame here but I think as usual it would be next to impossible to prove that there was any collusion.

[mikedavid00]

BTW, what of the other media outlets that carried the story are they slamming the oil sands too?

None.

I only here these anti-oil stories from the CBC. Also the homeless crisis in Alberta.

[MightyAC]

This is called the 'welfare state'. Taxes used to be gathered by terrifs from goods coming into Canada. Thus, if China wanted to send product into Canada, China would have to pay basically for the 'privelage' of having our consumers by from them. This also helped to protect Canadian made goods and keep them competative.

Now taxes are gathered at 50% from common working poor, low income, middle income Canadians to fund our social programs and services.

What, another example of the fact that you are a racist bumbling idiot?! There is evidence that oil companies may be scooping excess profit and that a woman may be filing a waste of time lawsuit but there is nothing in this story to do with the terms welfare state.

The working poor aren't paying a 50% tax rate either. You are an absolute fucking idiot.

I can no longer tolerate this forum due to your participation. This post isn’t even that bad I just can’t tolerate you anymore. It is my fault for having such little patience and so I will withdraw but I can not filter through your BS to read the other posts especially when you are such a ubiquitous poster. It is too hard to keep the gist of a thread while skipping every third post because it was made by you.

I will miss reading content of most of the contributors to this forum but I wish the worst on you. I really hope you see the light before you are beat to death after verbally assaulting someone for being non-Christian or non-white....but then again you are probably a coward in person aren't you? Stupid loud mouthed bigots like yourself tend to be mild mannered in public.

Anyway, I'm willing to bet the superior minds on this forum post at others and I will be able to hear there ideas elsewhere. I can only hope, for the people that remain on this site, that you are fired from your job, and are replaced by a visible minority (preferably a Hindu, Muslim or pagan), and can no longer afford internet access.

I think your are the lowest of the low and I can only dream that I will one day run into you in a pub in Mississauga and give you a black eye in person. I'm not a violent man but one can dream right? Hey when I’m in the area I visit Failte near Square One, any chance I could assault you there?

Cheers to all....

In a final word on this forum, that very few will read, fight for what you believe in, fight for democracy, fight for electoral reform and fight the consolidation of power like what Harper is doing now.

Anyway, I'm done... I hope to one day expand my own business site to include a separate section with a forum of its own. Maybe I'll use this same engine... $300 is pretty damn cheap.

Cheers

MAC

Alright…commence the permanent ban……………now.

[tim pellett]

The 4 mager refiner marketers for the 3/4 2006 profits jumped up 1.09 cents a litre after the so called gst deduction . That is over 3/4 2005 . that proves the gst deduction was put in the back pockets of big oil and not to the people of canada like the so called hew goverment said it would. This should be a canada wide court case. The new word for big oil is GASTARDS. IT is time we took the gasdards on

[geoffrey]

The 4 mager refiner marketers for the 3/4 2006 profits jumped up 1.09 cents a litre after the so called gst deduction . That is over 3/4 2005 . that proves the gst deduction was put in the back pockets of big oil and not to the people of canada like the so called hew goverment said it would. This should be a canada wide court case. The new word for big oil is GASTARDS. IT is time we took the gasdards on

Good, I hope you enjoy your skyrocketing unemployment when Canada's biggest non-state welfare engine gets shut down. Oil and gas is directly responsibile for your quality of life, without it, Canada has NOTHING anymore.

I hear people like you ranting in bars... after getting their paycheque from EnCana or Huskey.

[tim pellett]

The 4 mager refiner marketers for the 3/4 2006 profits jumped up 1.09 cents a litre after the so called gst deduction . That is over 3/4 2005 . that proves the gst deduction was put in the back pockets of big oil and not to the people of canada like the so called hew goverment said it would. This should be a canada wide court case. The new word for big oil is GASTARDS. IT is time we took the gasdards on

Good, I hope you enjoy your skyrocketing unemployment when Canada's biggest non-state welfare engine gets shut down. Oil and gas is directly responsibile for your quality of life, without it, Canada has NOTHING anymore.

I hear people like you ranting in bars... after getting their paycheque from EnCana or Huskey.

80% of all profit from the gastards (big oil) leave Canada do to the free trade deal. The US has the rights to are oil not CANDIANS

[B. Max]

name='tim pellett' date='Jun 23 2007, 04:48 PM' post='231653']

80% of all profit from the gastards (big oil) leave Canada do to the free trade deal

Investment in Alberta alone is about 18 billion a year.

.

The US has the rights to are oil not CANDIANS

You can show us such a contract.

[Michael Bluth]

This should be a canada wide court case. The new word for big oil is GASTARDS. IT is time we took the gasdards on

Will wearing tinfoil hats protect us from the gastards? Or is it spelled gasdards?

I looked in my dictionary and couldn't find a definition.

[geoffrey]

80% of all profit from the gastards (big oil) leave Canada do to the free trade deal. The US has the rights to are oil not CANDIANS

Your clueless. Where do you think that profit comes from to begin with? Do you think Canadians can buy all the oil Alberta produces? The Americans make our industry. Do they take a cut? Sure.

But I'll gladly take their dollars in exchange for slimy black stuff.

You just don't get it. Without NAFTA, Canada would be poorer than it already is. Alberta needs NAFTA.

If you don't like oil profits going south, buy more shares in oil companies and stop whining about it.

[Topaz]

I don't about other provinces but I remember hearing about the taxes in Ontario are lower than the Feds which I think were 10%. Correct me if I'm wrong. I only know on Tuesday, last week, at noon, the price in smalltown Ontario went from .99Litre to 1.01, then Thursday went to 1.04 and raising. After all, the Canada Day holidays are coming and we all know now when they will see the prices go up!

[tim pellett]

name='tim pellett' date='Jun 23 2007, 04:48 PM' post='231653']

80% of all profit from the gastards (big oil) leave Canada do to the free trade deal

Investment in Alberta alone is about 18 billion a year.

.

The US has the rights to are oil not CANDIANS

You can show us such a contract.

and can u show us a chart that shows us the profit tha leaves canada.

In 2003 alberta got 5 billion in royalties and norway got 50 billion in royalties for there people of the same amount oil and gas.

may bee why norway is the # 1 place in the wourld tp mlive and canada has fallon to the 23rd spot

[tim pellett]

80% of all profit from the gastards (big oil) leave Canada do to the free trade deal. The US has the rights to are oil not CANDIANS

Your clueless. Where do you think that profit comes from to begin with? Do you think Canadians can buy all the oil Alberta produces? The Americans make our industry. Do they take a cut? Sure.

But I'll gladly take their dollars in exchange for slimy black stuff.

You just don't get it. Without NAFTA, Canada would be poorer than it already is. Alberta needs NAFTA.

If you don't like oil profits going south, buy more shares in oil companies and stop whining about it.

Alberta gets $ 4.00 a barral thats all they get norway gets $ 22.00 a barral

there should be a thing called fair trade ,

should there not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You don,t get it

nafta gave our rights to are our oil and everthing else in Canada

[tim pellett]

I don't about other provinces but I remember hearing about the taxes in Ontario are lower than the Feds which I think were 10%. Correct me if I'm wrong. I only know on Tuesday, last week, at noon, the price in smalltown Ontario went from .99Litre to 1.01, then Thursday went to 1.04 and raising. After all, the Canada Day holidays are coming and we all know now when they will see the prices go up!

if its gas taxes its 14.7 cents a liter in ontario

[geoffrey]

Alberta gets $ 4.00 a barral thats all they get norway gets $ 22.00 a barral

That's a misleading statistic. Norway's oil is extracted by mostly government owned companies. The $18 or so spread your talking about is North American oil company profit, which is what we all get being shareholders of oil companies.

Alberta's GDP is higher than Norways. Why must we levy higher royalties? I'm happy with the way things are.

[Moxie]

80% of all profit from the gastards (big oil) leave Canada do to the free trade deal. The US has the rights to are oil not CANDIANS

Your clueless. Where do you think that profit comes from to begin with? Do you think Canadians can buy all the oil Alberta produces? The Americans make our industry. Do they take a cut? Sure.

But I'll gladly take their dollars in exchange for slimy black stuff.

You just don't get it. Without NAFTA, Canada would be poorer than it already is. Alberta needs NAFTA.

If you don't like oil profits going south, buy more shares in oil companies and stop whining about it.

Alberta gets $ 4.00 a barral thats all they get norway gets $ 22.00 a barral

there should be a thing called fair trade ,

should there not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You don,t get it

nafta gave our rights to are our oil and everthing else in Canada

Norway is a Unionionist Country, even it's Military is unionized. Can you imagine that? Once the gravy boat is passed around to all the socialists with their grubby hands out in Norway there isn't that much cash or gravy left but globs of fat. So I don't think we are getting such a bad deal for our black gold.

[B. Max]

Alberta gets $ 4.00 a barral thats all they get norway gets $ 22.00 a barral

there should be a thing called fair trade ,

should there not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You don,t get it

nafta gave our rights to are our oil and everthing else in Canada

Nafta did not give any rights to anyone for our oil. We sell our oil to the US at world prices. Norway is one of the highest taxed countries in the world with taxes rising every year. It is not a socialist utopia, it is another socialist nightmare.

[tim pellett]

Alberta gets $ 4.00 a barral thats all they get norway gets $ 22.00 a barral

there should be a thing called fair trade ,

should there not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You don,t get it

nafta gave our rights to are our oil and everthing else in Canada

Nafta did not give any rights to anyone for our oil. We sell our oil to the US at world prices. Norway is one of the highest taxed countries in the world with taxes rising every year. It is not a socialist utopia, it is another socialist nightmare.

we do not sell our oil at would pricees big oil sells our oil at world prices we get $4,00 a barral

[tim pellett]

Alberta gets $ 4.00 a barral thats all they get norway gets $ 22.00 a barral

That's a misleading statistic. Norway's oil is extracted by mostly government owned companies. The $18 or so spread your talking about is North American oil company profit, which is what we all get being shareholders of oil companies.

Alberta's GDP is higher than Norways. Why must we levy higher royalties? I'm happy with the way things are.

shell oil does not have share holders in canada its now owened by riyal dutch shell!!!!!!! Have you not read the papers

thTS BIG OIL,S GDP NOT ALBERTA,S ALBERTA IS $4.00 A BARRAL

THE ONLY THING ALBERTA IS LEFT IS TOXIC WATER