Seniors and Entitlement

[Live From China]

Does anyone here get the impression that "seniors" have a tremendous sense of entitlement?

[guyser]

Does anyone here get the impression that "seniors" have a tremendous sense of entitlement?

Not really, I see them as having paid their dues, paid their taxes , built this country and are entitled to what we owe them.

Not all of them take what they can, I find that those living well waive off the "perks" of being elderly as they can afford to pay the going rate.

[margrace]

Seniors I know run food banks, palliative care organizations, drive people for doctors appointment, deliver meals on wheels to other older senior ets. Is this entitlement?

[Live From China]

I must know the "wrong" seniors. None of them volunteer in any community services. They complain about how much income tax they pay and openly declare they don't care if there are any pensions for the seniors of the future, just as long as they get theirs.

[margrace]

Oh well I know a few like that but not many.

[guyser]

They complain about how much income tax they pay and openly declare they don't care if there are any pensions for the seniors of the future, just as long as they get theirs.

Well the tax thing is true, they do have a complaint there. Clawback is a beotch for them , and when they have been wise and paid into funds that now generate income, to have the Gov clawback pensions and the like, I say complain all they want.

Now if anyone of them said I want but dont care about the seniors of the future well........

[geoffrey]

There are a relatively similar proportion of "entitled" people in nearly all demographic profiles.

[Renegade]

Does anyone here get the impression that "seniors" have a tremendous sense of entitlement?

I don't know if I'd term it entitlement. It is a fact that seniors get a lot, possibly far more than any other group in society. For some of them, they feel they are owed it, and that would certainly give credence to the statement that they feel a sense of entitlement. Others, however are grateful for what they get.

What should be beyond dispute is that seniors enjoy many advantages which the rest of society does not. The only program which they can legimitately claim to "have paid into" is CPP, and even then, the current CPP payout far outweighs what was contributed. Other programs such as OAS are nothing but a welfare system targeted specificly for seniors regardless of contribution.

[geoffrey]

CPP is the burden that 20-somethings like myself are going to have to carry for the rest of our working careers and we're likely to receive much less than current seniors get.

[Renegade]

CPP is the burden that 20-somethings like myself are going to have to carry for the rest of our working careers and we're likely to receive much less than current seniors get.

Correct! Since the 90s contribution rates have been upped substantially. Those who are now collecting, contributed at low contribution rates but yet collect substantial payout. The same won't be true of future contributors.

[MightyAC]

As far as a sense of entitlement goes I'm not sure who is worse....seniors over 65 or the bulk of the boomer generation, or as I refer to them (thanks to the band by the same name) 'The Me First and the Gimme Gmmes'..

[Live From China]

What should be beyond dispute is that seniors enjoy many advantages which the rest of society does not. The only program which they can legimitately claim to "have paid into" is CPP, and even then, the current CPP payout far outweighs what was contributed. Other programs such as OAS are nothing but a welfare system targeted specificly for seniors regardless of contribution.

This is what I was thinking of. I have heard seniors actually brag about getting more than they put into the system and in the same breath criticize people for collecting EI and welfare. I usually remind them they are getting nothing more than "glorified welfare."

I know there are other groups that have a sense of entitlement and that there are seniors who are living "hand to mouth."

What I always found funny was the so-called "senior's discount" at theatres, etc. A senior who has far more money than many people and no mortgage, etc. gets into a show for a considerably reduced amount Or better yet: in a BC campground up drives a senior in his $75,000 mobile and gets to stay for free :angry:

[Drea]

I cannot believe the attitude of folks!

Seniors have worked and paid taxes their entire lives -- they are entitled to discounts etc.

Cry me a river China. Boo-hoo that you have to pay for a camping spot and the senior doesn't.

You young pups need to get it through your heads that the world does not "owe" you simply because you were born. WORK! EARN! Get off yer lazy butts and make sure that YOUR retirement is secure.

[Live From China]

Seniors have worked and paid taxes their entire lives -- they are entitled to discounts etc.

Why are they entitled? Where is this enshrined in law? What does a reduced rate for a hair cut or theatre admission have to do with paying taxes? And some seniors have NOT worked a day in their lives NOR paid taxes.

Cry me a river China. Boo-hoo that you have to pay for a camping spot and the senior doesn't.

Actually, you are "barking up the wrong tree." I actually NEVER stay in provincial campgrounds. All my camping is done in remote wilderness areas accessible only by foot, skis or water. It was just an observation. Just remember when a senior stays for free, that fee is not "forgotten." It goes into the fee of someone who has to pay.

You young pups need to get it through your heads that the world does not "owe" you simply because you were born. WORK! EARN! Get off yer lazy butts and make sure that YOUR retirement is secure.

Not one person here has said we are owed a living. And I think the point some people are making is that our retirements are NOT secure. The government plans we are paying into may not even exist by the time we retire. Some financial planning may help, but given the unpredictability of the financial world ........

[Drea]

typical youngin' -- WHY! Why are they entitled?

Because they've lived longer than you. Period. No other justification required.

How 'bout if all yungins like yerself stay home, get discounts and all the 80 year olds can work and support the young people -- after all young people DESERVE to be taken care of -- since they've done sooooo much for society and all. Would that please you? Pffft.

[Live From China]

Because they've lived longer than you. Period. No other justification required.

Actually, this is no different than feeling entitled to something because you were born. If we use your logic, one should also be entitled to something because they have NOT lived as long as someone else

And I have a surprise for you, I am almost a senior myself! (Although my father constantly referred to me as a "youngster" ) And when the day comes, I will not object to paying full price for a haircut, etc.

[geoffrey]

typical youngin' -- WHY! Why are they entitled?

Because they've lived longer than you. Period. No other justification required.

That is near the most absurd thing I've heard all day. And it's been one of those days.

We should feel less sorry for seniors, most of them are doing quite well. Those retiring now experienced many years of huge portfolio growth under the skyrocketing interest rates of Trudeau.

Why a senior needs a lower rate is ridiculous... I'd also say it goes against the fair trading legislation in Canada but oh well. If the government offers a seniors discount, I'd say it clearly violates the Charter. But hey, the Charter is never for the majority... sheesh.

I don't see why I become magically more important the day I turn 65. In fact, I hope I don't, as I'd be contributing to one of the biggest falicies we have in the western world.

[Renegade]

Seniors have worked and paid taxes their entire lives -- they are entitled to discounts etc.

Some have, some havent. Even those who haven't, benefit from programs directed at seniors. Even those who paid taxes through their lives, have had those taxes expended for services. In fact for many of the years the now seniors were working, (ie the 70s's, 80's, and early 90's) so much money was spent on services that it was not even covered by the taxes they contributed. Their gift to us is the debt Canada now posesses and slowly has to pay off.

You young pups need to get it through your heads that the world does not "owe" you simply because you were born. WORK! EARN! Get off yer lazy butts and make sure that YOUR retirement is secure.

I agree with you. The young are not owed anything, but then neither are the old. If they worked and saved for their old age, their retirement would now be secure instead of having to depend upon government hand-outs.

Because they've lived longer than you. Period. No other justification required.

Age discrimmination cuts both ways. If they expect not to be discrimminated against because of their age, they should not be entitled to prefrential treatment because of their age. It is an absurd justification to say someone should be more entitled to programs simply because they were born some years earlier. Your statement makes about as much sense as saying the young are more entitled to jobs simply because they are younger.

[Live From China]

Well said, Renegade and geoffrey.

However, I feel the following is just too silly for words:

You young pups need to get it through your heads that the world does not "owe" you simply because you were born. WORK! EARN! Get off yer lazy butts and make sure that YOUR retirement is secure.

I think it is easy to say plan for a secure retirement, but I think many people cannot simply because they cannot afford to (and I know this sounds strange, but what do you do if all your money goes to surviving?). It must be remember many seniors "got when the getting was good."

[betsy]

I must know the "wrong" seniors. None of them volunteer in any community services. They complain about how much income tax they pay and openly declare they don't care if there are any pensions for the seniors of the future, just as long as they get theirs.

But I know some people who abuse the welfare system....not seniors....and they don't care if their abuses affect those that really do need help. I also know some who get food from the food bank, even if they do have work and undeclared income and are getting paid under the table. All I'm saying is that some bad apples are mixed with in all types of groups.

[Live From China]

I often wonder about welfare and EI abuse. Yes, we all know it happens but I wonder how much. I recall hearing a radio report in which EI admitted that the number of cheats was extremely low. Of course, maybe they were just trying to save face Not too sure about welfare. It seems to me that both spend far more money on enforcement than they get in return. Why bother? But then, I guess if they didn't, there would probably be a lot more fraudulent claims.

Not too sure if I would say that seniors "abuse the system", unless we say that getting more than you put into the system is abuse, but then the system is set up this way, etc., etc., etc.

[Renegade]

what do you do if all your money goes to surviving?

Our generous CPP, OAS, GIS, and senior programs make this point moot however if they didn't exist I suppose then you should forgo retirement and continue to work else you'd be forced to look to the kindness and charity of family, friends and strangers to sustain you.

[Live From China]

I suppose then you should forgo retirement and continue to work else you'd be forced to look to the kindness and charity of friends and strangers to sustain you.

The stranger I pick is Bill Gates

[margrace]

Now I have been told that there should be no OAP. that when these people become unable to look after themselves then it is their child's duty to step in and support them.

I do know that I have a very small amount saved in GIC's and I must take so much out every year, it is a required %, mine is the princely sum of around $325 dollars a year and that I must report that and my pension is cut to reflect that. I get a little over $10,000 a year.

I have a friend who just turned 90, her husband is 93. She was so thankful for the OAP. She often commented to me how hard it must have been for her parents when they no longer could make a living farming. Her mother lived to be 98.

My friend fell, washing a wall from a step stool recently and shattered her knee. She and her husband could no longer stay on the farm that they had farmed for 70 years. They sold the farm for about $150,000 dollars. They were taken south by their family and are in a home near them. This is a private home so I guess if they live too long their families will have to start to kick in payment for them.

There is little chance of me going to Florida for the winter. I do get to do a bit of travelling but my kids pay the tickets to and from their places.

There are a lot of seniors in our area in the same situation that I am in. My question is how many of you could take your parents into your home or pay for them in a nursing home. Remember no OAP.

[Live From China]

This reminds of a story.

Several years ago, a friend of mine owned several dump trucks. He was hired to deliver a load of gravel to the site of a newly built house. When he arrived, the senior who owned the place bragged about the new house (paid for in cash), the new car, and the home that her and her husband stayed in Arizona every winter.

She was rather shocked when he handed her the bill. Her reply was apparently something like, "Don't I get a senior's discount?" His reply was, "Not bloody likely!"