Canada's lack of direction for science and R&D

[bk59]

This story was on CBC a few days ago. The federal government has turned down an opportunity to fund a Canadian built Mars rover for the European Space Agency (ESA).

The decision is odd in that it would have cost no more money than what was already in the Canadian Space Agency (CSA) budget. There are immediate economic benefits to this for Canadian companies and potential future benefits from getting more of this type of work.

Is this indicative of a larger problem and lack of direction for Canada's science and technology capabilities?

It seems to me that this (space robotics) has been one of the most successful technology sectors in Canada. Without any meaningful direction Canada will soon find itself behind the rest of the world. Not just in space robotics, but in all areas of science and technology production / innovation. Do we really want Canada to be nothing more than a natural resources economy?

[mikedavid00]

The decision is odd in that it would have cost no more money than what was already in the Canadian Space Agency (CSA) budget.

We.

Have.

Canadian.

Citizens.

Dying.

on.

Wiating.

Lists.

WHAT DON'T YOU UDNERSTAND.

Elimate the damn space agency. Unless they want to talke themselves down to hell where they can rot and we can put monies where it rightfully belongs.

Get RID of them!!!

[blueblood]

This story was on CBC a few days ago. The federal government has turned down an opportunity to fund a Canadian built Mars rover for the European Space Agency (ESA).

The decision is odd in that it would have cost no more money than what was already in the Canadian Space Agency (CSA) budget. There are immediate economic benefits to this for Canadian companies and potential future benefits from getting more of this type of work.

Is this indicative of a larger problem and lack of direction for Canada's science and technology capabilities?

It seems to me that this (space robotics) has been one of the most successful technology sectors in Canada. Without any meaningful direction Canada will soon find itself behind the rest of the world. Not just in space robotics, but in all areas of science and technology production / innovation. Do we really want Canada to be nothing more than a natural resources economy?

That is odd, I mean I like my CPC but i'm giving my head a shake on this one, if the Europeans were going to foot the bill then why not, that made as much sense as cancelling the Arrow, I just don't get it.

[Wilber]

The decision is odd in that it would have cost no more money than what was already in the Canadian Space Agency (CSA) budget.

Of course there were ironclad guarantees to that effect, right?

[guyser]

We.

Have.

Canadian.

Citizens.

Dying.

on.

Wiating.

Lists.

WHAT DON'T YOU UDNERSTAND.

Elimate the damn space agency. Unless they want to talke themselves down to hell where they can rot and we can put monies where it rightfully belongs.

Get RID of them!!!

Show me the list of people dying please. Because I don't "udnerstand" what you are talking about.

[Charles Anthony]

The federal government has turned down an opportunity to fund a Canadian built Mars rover for the European Space Agency (ESA).

The government should not even be entertaining such offers. If anything, the government should be in the business of governing and nothing else.

Any "opportunity" that is not already undertaken by private industry is likely to be a crony / make-work crock.

[mikedavid00]

If anything, the government should be in the business of governing and nothing else.

I agree.

[bk59]

That is odd, I mean I like my CPC but i'm giving my head a shake on this one, if the Europeans were going to foot the bill then why not, that made as much sense as cancelling the Arrow, I just don't get it.

The ESA wasn't going to foot the bill. What was being asked was that $10 million per year (for 10 years) out of the existing CSA budget be used for this project. So no new money would be required. To me this seems a no brainer. Without giving the CSA any direction Canada has just turned down the opportunity to get further involved in the space and robotics industries. If we're not going to have a direction for scientific research & development then why bother?

Especially because projects like this usually are a foot in the door. Future contracts would possibly / probably come directly from ESA. Without this project it's guaranteed that no one will come knocking in the future.

[bk59]

We.

Have.

Canadian.

Citizens.

Dying.

on.

Wiating.

Lists.

WHAT DON'T YOU UDNERSTAND.

Elimate the damn space agency. Unless they want to talke themselves down to hell where they can rot and we can put monies where it rightfully belongs.

Get RID of them!!!

Thank you for your overreaction and simplistic view. Where do you think a lot of the technology that exists in modern hospitals comes from? I'll give you a clue: research & development. Some of it as spinoff technology from space related applications.

Besides, not all problems can be solved by just throwing money at them. If there are Canadians dying on waiting lists* then more money will not help them if the system itself is inefficient.

Your strawman is not convincing. Funding scientific research is in no way causing people to die in Canada.

* Please feel free to show those statistics in another topic.

[jdobbin]

This story was on CBC a few days ago. The federal government has turned down an opportunity to fund a Canadian built Mars rover for the European Space Agency (ESA).

Did they give a reason for not supporting it that made any sense?

[bk59]

The government should not even be entertaining such offers. If anything, the government should be in the business of governing and nothing else.

Any "opportunity" that is not already undertaken by private industry is likely to be a crony / make-work crock.

For a quick second, let's set aside the philosophical question of whether or not governments should be funding research & development.

This money is already being spent in the CSA budget. So why not use it to advance a field that Canadians are well known for? Why not use it to try to generate future business for Canadian companies that will not be funded by the Canadian government? The story right now is still a bit "rumour-ish" in that I can't find a big official press release somewhere. But if we're going to be spending the money, I'd really like to know what we're spending it on - i.e. what direction are we taking with our R&D?

Now returning to the philosophical question...

It isn't economically viable for some basic scientific research to be left up to private industry. Private corporations just aren't going to take the risks for some projects (not just space related). With some government funding up front businesses and academic institutions can assume those risks and turn them into viable products that no longer need government funding.

[bk59]

Did they give a reason for not supporting it that made any sense?

This is all the article really says about reasons:

The project required no additional funding from Ottawa, but was contingent upon $100 million over 10 years from the existing CSA budget being redirected to the program by restructuring priorities and cancelling or postponing other projects, according to documents obtained by the CBC.

But just a few short weeks after the presentation, Industry Minister Maxime Bernier told the companies the government hadn't made up its mind about the future of Canada's space role and didn't want to go forward with the project.

I can't find any other reasons out there. But it seems a bit odd to say we don't know the direction we want to take, so we're going to turn down this opportunity.

[Riverwind]

I can't find any other reasons out there. But it seems a bit odd to say we don't know the direction we want to take, so we're going to turn down this opportunity.

I find it hard to believe that the CPC would make such a decision unless the bureaucrats at the space agency recommended it. Maybe it came down to money - the space agency wanted new money for the project but it did not want to gut its other programs if no new money was coming. This would explain the comment about 'we don't know the direction we want to take' since it sounds like the project would force the space agency to curtail its programs in many areas to fund the project.

[apollo19]

I think this was a huge mistake and an example of how Harper is distracted by other things(trying to play politics) instead of governing effectively. Why would you turn down a hard-science based project which required no new funding other than what was already committed to the CSA? This makes no sense, unless they are going to announce their own Canada Mars Rover (ha, no Canadian would dare do that.. it would make people notice Canada).

[mikedavid00]

Where do you think a lot of the technology that exists in modern hospitals comes from?

Canada's space program??

Lol!! oh lordy lordy..

[mikedavid00]

So why not use it to advance a field that Canadians are well known for?

Wow. Sometimes things get to a point where I can't even debate something because i don't know where to start.

How does one convince another the sky's not falling? It's like.. where do you start?

[mikedavid00]

I think this was a huge mistake and an example of how Harper is distracted by other things(trying to play politics) instead of governing effectively.

This coming from 'Appollo19'. Sorry couldn't help but to point you obvious have a bias.

Canada should not be taking part in this program and should eliminate financing to this white collar welfare.

[bk59]

I find it hard to believe that the CPC would make such a decision unless the bureaucrats at the space agency recommended it. Maybe it came down to money - the space agency wanted new money for the project but it did not want to gut its other programs if no new money was coming. This would explain the comment about 'we don't know the direction we want to take' since it sounds like the project would force the space agency to curtail its programs in many areas to fund the project.

This is a very real possibility. I guess I'm finding it hard to wrap my head around why someone would want to take such a huge option off the table before even trying to define a direction for the CSA. I mean, right now (to my knowledge) the government hasn't even appointed a new head for the CSA. I understand that no one would want to see their project cancelled or cut-back, but by the time they do decide they might realize that this was an option they should have kept open.

Where do you think a lot of the technology that exists in modern hospitals comes from?

Canada's space program??

Lol!! oh lordy lordy..

mikedavid00 even for you, that's an excellent job of not reading what's in front of you just so that you could try to quote something out of context. Feel free to read the rest of what I said.

So why not use it to advance a field that Canadians are well known for?

Wow. Sometimes things get to a point where I can't even debate something because i don't know where to start.

How does one convince another the sky's not falling? It's like.. where do you start?

Seems to me you can't debate because you aren't actually saying anything.

Within the aerospace industry Canadian companies are quite well known for their space robotics capabilities. When the US was considering a robotic Hubble mission they went to a Canadian company and no one else.

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