Global Warming

[JerrySeinfeld]

I think you've made my point loud and clear and I'm glad you took the bait:

Everytime there is a weather anomally, we shouldn't start running around drawing major conclusions.

It makes me laugh everytime you see a hurricane and someone says "global warming".

Last year after Hurricane Katrina we heard CNN and all the retard environmentalists gabbing on about how the storms are getting bigger and fiercer and this is something we can expcet to see more and more of...heck even earlier this year "scientists" were predicting a very active storm season.

And what happened this year? NOTHING!!!!!

N O T H I N G

Not ONE hurricane hit the USA this season. Not ONE.

Bait, what bait. There were 9 named storms this year in the Atlantic basin. True none of them hit the US. This isn't meant to be offensive towards you, but the United States is not the only determining factor in the global warming problem.

There were 24 named storms in the Pacific, so it wasn't exactly a slow year.

I completely agree with you that climate change is a hard thing to prove because it has happened in the past without human intervention. Completely agree.

Even as this map shows.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:TempAno...cmp_1951-80.gif

.... while some areas have experieced increases over the last fifty years or so, there are some areas that haven't.

Sure - but 9 named storms still falls well short of the predicted "very active season".

I am becoming more and more suspiscious of these people who seem hell bent on proving that the left is finally right about something.

In fact - it's kind of pathetic. Since the USSR collapsed, the left has been scrambling from gay marriage to melting iceburgs to islam....anything they can latch onto that is counter to the big bad USA!!!

[White Doors]

Citation?

"At Quebec City, the two sides appointed special envoys to study the acid rain problem. The Americans saw this as being enough to mollify Ottawa at that time. Mr. Reagan wasn’t convinced acid rain was a problem. At a National Security Council meeting he pointed out “we haven’t had air as clean as we now have for decades.”"

http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editoria.../2004/0915.html

Acid rain and pollution all in one comment.

You're suggesting that the right wing was an early believer in air pollution and acid rain? Citation for that?

Brian Mulruney was awarded as the greenest PM in history and he is conservative.

you can find your own 'citation'. it was common news.

[White Doors]

No. Rather, I'll ask you how far off Reagan's position (as indicated in your quote) was from reality. I remember acid rain being a big deal back in the 80's, with a lot of scary talk about dying lakes and forests. The worst of those predictions have proven hugely inaccurate. So, what happened?

Perhaps you forgot the various treaties that were signed and the reductions in sulfur emissions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulphur_Emiss...uction_Protocol

Do you have citations for it being all nonsense? You still think it came from ducks?

haha rich! perhaps you forget that these historic treaties were signed by two 'new-cons'?

hilarious.

[jdobbin]

Brian Mulruney was awarded as the greenest PM in history and he is conservative.

you can find your own 'citation'. it was common news.

And many right wingers say Brian Mulroney wasn't a true Conservative. You say he was?

Mulroney has been warning the Conservatives all week to make the environment an issue but we have Conservative people disputing here that there is any environmental problems.

[White Doors]

I'm more right wing then left wing. I haven't said that there aren't environmental problems!

In fact I said it was sad that 'global warming' is taking much needed action, funds and attention from truly worryign pollution like toxic waste, water management and smog.

So now Brian Mulruney isn't a true conservative? haha oh my. Can a conservative do NOTHING right in your eyes?

And I haven't seen ANYONE here say that there are no environmental problems.

[jdobbin]

I'm more right wing then left wing. I haven't said that there aren't environmental problems!

In fact I said it was sad that 'global warming' is taking much needed action, funds and attention from truly worryign pollution like toxic waste, water management and smog.

So now Brian Mulruney isn't a true conservative? haha oh my. Can a conservative do NOTHING right in your eyes?

I never said he wasn't a Conservative. I think he did a good job on the environment. I think he made good appointments to the courts. I didn't like the GST the way it was implemented. I always thought it should have no exemptions, been set lower and incorporated into the price of things.

I disagreed with the deficit, the CF-18 contract and going back to constitutional talks when they should have been left alone after the first attempt failed.

[White Doors]

I never said he wasn't a Conservative. I think he did a good job on the environment. I think he made good appointments to the courts. I didn't like the GST the way it was implemented. I always thought it should have no exemptions, been set lower and incorporated into the price of things.

I disagreed with the deficit, the CF-18 contract and going back to constitutional talks when they should have been left alone after the first attempt failed.

I liked the GST as much as one can like a tax. it was up to retailers if they incorporated it into the price of things, not the government. I like it seperate. It's good people are reminded of it.

I always disagree with the deficit but let's face it, Trudeau didn't leave him alot of choice. I didn't like the CF-18 contract going to PQ the same with him splitting the frigate contract to PQ along with SJ, NB.

[JerrySeinfeld]

This isn't a thread about mulroney.

Its about the massive delusion known as man-made climate change.

[jdobbin]

This isn't a thread about mulroney.

Its about the massive delusion known as man-made climate change.

Citation, please. And from scientists that are actually working in the climate field and have a body of research on the subject. If not, then the man made delusion is entirely yours.

[Slavik44]

I want to first talk about the storm thing,

First, the number of intense storms have been increasing over the years, now obviously there will always be outlier years that might buck the trend [recalling that there will still a number of storms this year]. But if we notice a trend of an increasing number of intense storms, is it not advisable to issue atleast a warning to be prepared? Particularly given that the number of category 4 and 5 Hurricanes have doubled since 1990?

Next I want to talk about Warming and Katrina, again there is CAUSATION, I am not saying man caused Hurricane Katrina I am not prepared or interested in getting into that debate. However, storms increase in intensity in warm/warmer water. And in the past few years water tempatures in that area have increased by about 1 degree faranhiet.

I know your immediate reaction is to laugh and say one degree, that ain't much. Which to an extent is true, I wouldn't notice it, you wouldn't notice it, but it does affect storms.

I also am not going to argue that this 1 degree is even as a result of Global warming it could simply be a result of the AMO, which is just roughly a 60 year cycle.

I suppose I can understand why people might question just how much of an affect humankind has had on Global Climate Change, and Hurricane Katrina. But, being able to blame it on natural occurences doesn't mean it isn't happening. But then most of the people who deny Global warming, would also find the historical trends supporting their claim of a natural cycle might come in conflict with their religous beliefs.

Anyways I know one issue that has been raised in that Carbon Dioxide is produced naturally, and by and large there is alot of natural emmission of Carbon Dioxide, and there have been natural peaks of Carbon dioxide in the past. Now I am nto a science student so my understanding is limited, so obviously I migh tmake some mistakes in this explanation. Naturally carbon dioxide is stored primarily in Oceans, Forests, and Soil. So if we were noticing a natural increase in atmospheric Carbon dioxide levels, this would be witnessed by a decrease in levels in Oceans, Forests, and Soils. However the levels of CO2 in oceans has actually been increasing in recent years. It is a little harder to track land totals due to widespread deforestation, but this to shows interesting data. The Carbon dioxide content in Soils appears to have increased enough to contain the CO2 released by deforestation and then some.

Anyways I hope that helps.

[jester]

Do global warning experts ever make the claim that it won't snow in places like B.C.?

No, only that there won't be any ice left on the North Pole.

I just hope they supply Santa Claus with some wheels.

Why? They would only gently spin as he sank into the Arctic Ocean....

[BubberMiley]

Its about the massive delusion known as man-made climate change.

Jerry would respond further but his power has been knocked out by the unprecedented Pacific winter storms.

[jbg]

First Ann Coulter now Stockwell Day.

Have you had an original idea in your life, Jerry? And you do know "global warming" (more accurately known as climate change) doesn't mean everywhere on earth warms up, right?

Yes. I agree. Weather changes. 1950-1, 1951-2 and 1952-3 were indeed mild winters in NYC, as were 1994-5, 1997-8, 1998-9, 2001-2, and apparently this winter. 1966-7, 1969-70, 1976-7. 1977-8, 1978-9, 2002-3, 2003-4 and 2004-5 were brutallycold winters. February 12, 2006 had NYC's record snowfall, 26.9 inches.

Climate does change. And you expect a bunch of politicians to alter that?

[sunsettommy]

No. Rather, I'll ask you how far off Reagan's position (as indicated in your quote) was from reality. I remember acid rain being a big deal back in the 80's, with a lot of scary talk about dying lakes and forests. The worst of those predictions have proven hugely inaccurate. So, what happened?

Perhaps you forgot the various treaties that were signed and the reductions in sulfur emissions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulphur_Emiss...uction_Protocol

Do you have citations for it being all nonsense? You still think it came from ducks?

Have you seen the 1990 Federal acid rain report?

A 10 year long study.

$500,000 cost.

[sunsettommy]

Brian Mulruney was awarded as the greenest PM in history and he is conservative.

you can find your own 'citation'. it was common news.

And many right wingers say Brian Mulroney wasn't a true Conservative. You say he was?

Mulroney has been warning the Conservatives all week to make the environment an issue but we have Conservative people disputing here that there is any environmental problems.

He was the LEADER of the Progressive CONSERVATIVE Party.

[sunsettommy]

First Ann Coulter now Stockwell Day.

Have you had an original idea in your life, Jerry? And you do know "global warming" (more accurately known as climate change) doesn't mean everywhere on earth warms up, right?

Did you get this part?

Day wrote that a recent cold snap had him "begging for Big Al's glacial melt when the mercury hit -24."

About 22 towns and cities in British Columbia "had broken all-time records for paralyzing frigid temperatures," Day wrote.

Where did such a large super cold air mass come from?

[sunsettommy]

There's something vaguely Orwellian about the way the left grabs onto existing words and phrases, twists the meanings to their own uses, and expects everyone else to use their redefintions and toe the rhetorical line.

Hmmm, it's rather interesting that you have attributed this to the "left", when the term "climate change" was practically invented by Frank Luntz, the republican strategist....hardly a "leftie"

No it wasn't - it was invented by a bunch of granola scientists who used to write about the coming "global cooling" in the 1970's. Then when the world started warming in the 70's 80's and 90's they changed it to "global warming".

But now that the world has started to cool again (granola scientists HATE good news), they just figure it's easier to refer to "climate change"

Very few scientists were actually that alarmed by the cooling.

It was mostly inspired by the media and environmentalists who blamed air pollution among other things.

You tend to be overly dramatic over this.

[sunsettommy]

reffric:

What are you on? It broke a record yesterday for the warmest December 11th on record.

http://www.theweathernetwork.com/weather/a...VR.htm?CABC0308

Today it is above seasonal.

So we had a bad week, that is bound to happen. You didn't think global warming meant everyday was going to be hot and sunny did you?

Jerry seinfield:

Well it's been bloody cold here in Vancouver - it snowed like crazy and Alberta has only recentlly excaped a weeks long deep freeze.

Is it just me, or has the global warming spared western Canada?

emphasis mine

He was referring to the time BEFORE december 11.

The planet warming up presents less and less possibility for such a super cold spell to appear.

But you knew that.

[theloniusfleabag]

Where did such a large super cold air mass come from?

My first response would be..."From the sky, where they keep most of the air"...However, 'global warming's effects' are abberant weather with a greater range of the extremes. Weird stuff, like snow in California and Kuwait, or 10 force 4 hurricanes in a season, stuff that could just never happen...

[sunsettommy]

Not ONE hurricane hit the USA this season. Not ONE.

Instead a tornado hits London, England.

The point is?

Now to GUARDIAN UNLIMITED:

Snip:

Backstory

Tornadoes are the result of warm and cold winds travelling at different speeds and in different directions in storm conditions, creating a build-up of energy like a pressure cooker. The weather fronts can come together to create a violent twisting vortex - similar to water swirling down a plughole - that drags along the ground at speeds of more than 100mph. The huge cloud, called a supercell, becomes much taller and more powerful than normal and lightning and hail from it are more ferocious.

The UK has the largest number of reported tornadoes for its land area in the world as cold air from the Arctic meets warmer, tropical air from the equator. Around 70 tornadoes were reported across the UK in 2004 and 2005, with 40 this year.

Alok Jha

http://www.guardian.co.uk/weather/Story/0,,1967296,00.html

What was your point?

[sunsettommy]

Where did such a large super cold air mass come from?

My first response would be..."From the sky, where they keep most of the air"...However, 'global warming's effects' are abberant weather with a greater range of the extremes. Weird stuff, like snow in California and Kuwait, or 10 force 4 hurricanes in a season, stuff that could just never happen...

Part of California is home to some of the snowiest region in the entire world.

America had such a hurricane season before.

Last year was a near perfect setting for hurricane development.

The Bemuda High was weak.

The shearing winds were nearly absent.

The water surface was warmer than usual.

This year the Bermuda high was much stronger.

The Shearing winds were back and the surface waters in the relevant regions were COOLER.

All along the surface water temperatures in large regions of the middle and southern atlantic is warm enough for hurricane development.It is those other factors that determine where they go and how well organized they can develop.

[cybercoma]

First Ann Coulter now Stockwell Day.

Have you had an original idea in your life, Jerry? And you do know "global warming" (more accurately known as climate change) doesn't mean everywhere on earth warms up, right?

I'm kinda on the fence about climate change -- even though I'm skeptical, I'm not sure what to believe -- but if "global warming" doesn't mean everywhere on earth warms up (which is obvious) then why do we put so much emphasis on data that comes from tree rings in the US and glaciers? Those samples are from specific geographical locations and they're supposed to determine the global mean? I mean, we've only been using thermometers globally for maybe 100 years and that data (which should be more reliable) actually showed a period of cooling within the last 100 years, over nearly 3 decades.

I'm not denying the effects of CO2 in relation to trapping heat, but it is disputable what the temperatures will be in the future. There are many other variables besides CO2 that factor into global mean temperature.

[sunsettommy]

First Ann Coulter now Stockwell Day.

Have you had an original idea in your life, Jerry? And you do know "global warming" (more accurately known as climate change) doesn't mean everywhere on earth warms up, right?

I'm kinda on the fence about climate change -- even though I'm skeptical, I'm not sure what to believe -- but if "global warming" doesn't mean everywhere on earth warms up (which is obvious) then why do we put so much emphasis on data that comes from tree rings in the US and glaciers? Those samples are from specific geographical locations and they're supposed to determine the global mean? I mean, we've only been using thermometers globally for maybe 100 years and that data (which should be more reliable) actually showed a period of cooling within the last 100 years, over nearly 3 decades.

I'm not denying the effects of CO2 in relation to trapping heat, but it is disputable what the temperatures will be in the future. There are many other variables besides CO2 that factor into global mean temperature.

A good reasonable position to have.

The Climate system is very complicated and has many variables to consider.

That is why CO2 can not be the sole cause of warming.

[BubberMiley]

Yes. I agree. Weather changes. 1950-1, 1951-2 and 1952-3 were indeed mild winters in NYC, as were 1994-5, 1997-8, 1998-9, 2001-2, and apparently this winter. 1966-7, 1969-70, 1976-7. 1977-8, 1978-9, 2002-3, 2003-4 and 2004-5 were brutallycold winters. February 12, 2006 had NYC's record snowfall, 26.9 inches.

Climate does change. And you expect a bunch of politicians to alter that?

Weather changes, but millienia-old ice caps don't normally just disappear over a few years. And I'm not sure politicians can do much about it now, but it's kind of like chemotherapy. It's not fun and it probably won't work, but you have no choice but to try.

[B. Max]

First Ann Coulter now Stockwell Day.

Have you had an original idea in your life, Jerry? And you do know "global warming" (more accurately known as climate change) doesn't mean everywhere on earth warms up, right?

So there's no global warming.