Ethics of self-defence

[FTA Lawyer]

Oh I like these! Why did the guy want to fight your client in the first place? Was it a consentual fight before the knife was pulled or was your client swarmed. Did your client get his clock cleaned?

Sorry to be a tease...but I really can't divulge anything more detailed than what I have in the previous post. Not that I think you are a Crown Prosecutor, or someone who will send a report to one, who will send it to the guy prosecuting my case...but stranger things have happened.

The one true advantage I have as a defence lawyer at trial is that I know my client's version of the events, but no one else does...unless and until I put him on the stand. It would be a really bad idea for me to let any of that information out of the bag on a case that is pending.

I promise to tell you what happens though! (assuming my client lets me...they don't always)

FTA

[blueblood]

Oh I like these! Why did the guy want to fight your client in the first place? Was it a consentual fight before the knife was pulled or was your client swarmed. Did your client get his clock cleaned?

Sorry to be a tease...but I really can't divulge anything more detailed than what I have in the previous post. Not that I think you are a Crown Prosecutor, or someone who will send a report to one, who will send it to the guy prosecuting my case...but stranger things have happened.

The one true advantage I have as a defence lawyer at trial is that I know my client's version of the events, but no one else does...unless and until I put him on the stand. It would be a really bad idea for me to let any of that information out of the bag on a case that is pending.

I promise to tell you what happens though! (assuming my client lets me...they don't always)

FTA

I see, and I'll assume you have a police report about this too, I was asking questions based on third party testimony, from what you were saying it looked there was a little spin on it. I understand the whole client lawyer fair trial thing and if that's as far as you can go.

[Figleaf]

FTA, I look forward to hearing the outcome.

In my opinion agressors should bear the burden of risk for whatever means the defender chooses, up to the point that the aggressor desists or poses no further threat.

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear FTA Lawyer,

Your case is very interesting, I do hope we get to hear the result. I suspect that your client will receive probation for: possession of a concealed weapon (if the knife was not worn on the outside of his clothing), assault with a weapon. The other guy will likely also get probation or minimal time, and be expected to take a few classes in Anger Management and substance abuse.

I overheard a fellow in my neighbourhood (near work, that is) talking to someone else about a recent conviction....(note: the guy looked like Charles Manson on steroids) he said "Man, it's great, I can do almost anything I want now, and all they give me is counselling!".

[FTA Lawyer]

Dear FTA Lawyer,

Your case is very interesting, I do hope we get to hear the result.

You'll have to wait for another day for any judgment related to the law of self defence. My client was acquitted of all charges because the Crown's case fell apart. The judge had reasonable doubt that an assault even happened, let alone with a knife. We never had to even argue the issue of self-defence.

News Story

FTA

[EchoesofMourning]

So if shouting insults counts as assault, if A taunts B, can B legally punch A in the head?

[Figleaf]

Shouting insult counts as an assault???

[geoffrey]

Shouting insult counts as an assault???

Nope, but me pretending to (and not actually touching you) flick you in the ear is. Can you shoot me after?

I understand the point of view of allowing the victim full power to defend themselves, as a deterrent if you will, but can you real justify having people get shot during a fist fight?

If one was a victim, you really have no way of knowing if the violence against you will esclate, so I would be comfortable with the argument that victims lives are always in danger when attacked, and they can respond with lethal force.

But what do we do when someone is carrying a handgun for self defense. If it's deemed reasonable to bust a cap when someone throws a coffee at you while biking, I'm definetly in, but then people would have to respect the idea that carrying a handgun for defense is a reasonable thing to do... as it's acceptable to use that force all of the time. I figure if one cyclist popped a motorist in the noggin' after throwing something out the window, that'd be the end of people doing that. So your deterent effect works.

But at what cost?

[theloniusfleabag]

Dear geoffrey,

Nope, but me pretending to (and not actually touching you) flick you in the ear is. Can you shoot me after?

I understand the point of view of allowing the victim full power to defend themselves, as a deterrent if you will, but can you real justify having people get shot during a fist fight?

If one was a victim, you really have no way of knowing if the violence against you will esclate, so I would be comfortable with the argument that victims lives are always in danger when attacked, and they can respond with lethal force.

As I understand it, (in Canada, at least) an individual can only use the minimum required force to defend against a threat, never the maximum. This must be an incredibly grey area of law, because it would be physically impossible to ever prove intent.

[sideshow]

weapon, intent, delivery system: use of force continuum required by law enforcement to use lethal force.

[geoffrey]

As I understand it, (in Canada, at least) an individual can only use the minimum required force to defend against a threat, never the maximum. This must be an incredibly grey area of law, because it would be physically impossible to ever prove intent.

Your right, but that wasn't the question (or how I interpreted it).

The statement at hand seems to me to be, "when someone attacks you, they are taking the chance that your going to use lethal force in return, and are completely responsible for the damage incurred to theirself."

I won't lie, I have had coffees tossed at me while riding (like why the hell would you waste a coffee, I never get in people's ways, the libertarian type that I am, and I'm being good for the environment, public health and traffic all at once), and I've caught a few and tossed them (and bagels, cookies, books and coins) right back into their window. Is that reasonable force? Likely not, the attack wasn't going to continue. There was no further defense needed other than to keep on bikin'. Would morality take my side? Absolutely.

People need to learn a lesson now and again.

I think that using force to stop the attack is a logical legal line to draw. I think that using force to deter further abuses is even better morally. I can promise you that driver will think twice before trying a stunt like that again. If I just quit and give up, he'd likely repeat himself.

P.S.. Calgary isn't a city to bike commute to work in if you value your life.

[Charles Anthony]

Well, I fell into that one, didn't I? Guess I better rethink what I store under my bathroom sink.....

Everybody should be en guarde including the cops.

Laval cop shooting an accident: accused's family

The family of a man charged with first-degree murder in the shooting death of a Montreal-area police officer are calling the incident a tragic mistake.

---SNIP---

But his family

maintains that he was simply acting in self defence

.

---SNIP--

The police entered the suburban home just before down, using a battering ram to knock down the door.

Parasiris' laywer, Frank Pappas, said it was dark and chaotic.

"The accused thought he was dealing with home invaders, he wanted to protect his family, he discharged his firearm and had no idea police were there present," Pappas told CTV News.

He also said the children in the house were terrified during the incident and that the 15-year-old boy even called for help.

"That young boy picked up the phone and called 9-1-1, asked for help from the police, believing they were being robbed" Pappas said.

Since the gun was registered, Parasiris' family says police were aware he had a gun.

CTV