When Dion whips Harper in the next election.....

[kimmy]

Having a "regional lieutenant" is more or less a concession that you've been soundly rejected..

Wow are you ever a whiner. Dion is from Quebec there are 9 provinces and 3 territories that were shut out. Do you think Ontarions were pissed when Steve-O beat out Belinda and Tony Clement? Hell no. Yet not choosing a westerner is always an issue in Alberta.

I don't mean at the leadership convention, I mean after the election. When parties appoint a "regional lieutenant" it's because they've had their asses kicked in that region.

Annointing Kennedy as their "western lieutenant" will be particularly interesting, since he's been in Ontario for over 20 years and will probably run for parliament in Ontario.

Sending Kennedy to Alberta to kiss ass every few months isn't going to change anything or make Albertans feel represented in Ottawa, especially when Dion comes up with his new equalization formula or guts our industries and loots the treasury for his environmental ideas.

As we saw with Landslide Annie under the last Liberal regime, or the whole Alberta caucus under Mulroney, our MPs aren't our messengers to Ottawa, they're Ottawa's messengers to us.

Aye sadly what was an excellent political movement is now a farce. Thanks Steve-O. Why they sacrificed their principles for a brief shot at the brass ring I'll never know. Grassroots democracy is a great thing. Now in office Harper has sprayed RoundUp all over those roots.

I think the conclusion was that if they watered down their platform, they'd have a chance to get into office and enact some of their ideas... which isn't ideal, but better than never getting into office and never enacting any of their ideas.

I have no problem with an equal senate. In fact, I thought every region had something like 20 senators right now...I vaguely rememeber some BS situation for the Newfies and the territories though.

If the current senate is "equal", then some provinces are more equal than others. The current alignment has 24 senators from Quebec, 24 from Ontario, 24 from "the west", 30 from the Maritimes, and 3 from the Territories. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_senate#Senators

Anyway an equal senate is achievable and worth fighting for. I thought Harper would have pushed for a triple E senate, rather than appointing a senator himself and adding some window dressing to the selection process. Wonder why he didn't? Seems like he sold out the west (and the east) again.

Probably he suspects there's dubious support for those positions outside of western Canada or among the opposition parties, and as a result has put just enough window dressing on the issue to say he took action.

It would be interesting, though, to see how the opposition would respond if he did push the issue.

I don't actually want an "any E" senate. I'd prefer they just abolish the thing. I don't think people actually want a senate that does anything. Make the senate elected and effective, and soon they'll start acting like they have a legitimate mandate. Do people actually want a senate that stands up to Parliament? I'm skeptical.

Even if the Liberals win the next election it will likely be a minority. Maybe the Conservatives will start representing their constituents again as members of the opposition. Maybe then he can put forth a motion to reform the senate.

It's a lot easier to talk about big policy ideas when you're not actually in a position to enact them.

The Liberals' big plans for Kyoto right now, versus what they actually did while they were in office, are a good example of that.

-k

[Saturn]

Ya, if you called a taxi you'd get an immigrant doctor behind the wheel because of xenophobes like you who would rather wait 8 months to see a doctor than be touched by a man of colour.

That's garbage, the reason they can't practice here is because they don't meet Canadian medical educational standards, depending on where the immigrant comes from, their foreign education may be of lower quality than education obtained in Canada. The title degree of an educational program mighjt be the same, but is worth less in Canada. I don't agree with lowering our standards in order to accommodate foreign medical workers.

I wouldn't be averse to a program which allows an MD from another country to retrain or work as an intern for a year so, prior to sitting an exam. Possibly free of charge if they promise to practice in remote areas for a min. period of time. In fact, I think the Ontario gov't was talking about such a program at one time.

They also need to increase the spots in Universities for Canadian students.

What you are saying is garbage, because you can't argue that US or European doctors are any worse than Canadian doctors and they are still not allowed to practice in Canada. Even Canadians who graduated and got their licence in the US cannot practice in Canada. What the heck - even doctors from one province cannot practice in another without going through a bunch of hoops. That's plain dumb.

Ensuring doctors meet licencing standards is "dumb"?

Tell ya what, I'm all for people like you going on a voluntary list of those willing to be treated by any immigrant who calls himself a doctor. All of you and your families will be seen by immigrant doctors whose credentials and training are unknown and abilities unproved. I'm sure you won't mind.

I'll definitely take a doctor who is a specialist in the US (and Canadian btw). But the Ontario medical association won't take her despite the fact that the Hospital for Sick Childen in TO is begging them do let her practise because the hospital does not expect anyone with her credentials to even apply for the possition in the next 2 years and the hospital badly needs neonatal specialists right now (there has been a great shortage in years). But the medical association thinks it's much better to fly the sick babies to New York, where that same person will take care of them, than to have her work in Canada. So, no, I definitely wouldn't mind her taking care of my child - I'd just prefer that she does it here not in New York.

[MightyAC]

I think the conclusion was that if they watered down their platform, they'd have a chance to get into office and enact some of their ideas... which isn't ideal, but better than never getting into office and never enacting any of their ideas.

Watered down their platform? They sold out the reformers.

Anyway an equal senate is achievable and worth fighting for. I thought Harper would have pushed for a triple E senate, rather than appointing a senator himself and adding some window dressing to the selection process. Wonder why he didn't? Seems like he sold out the west (and the east) again.

Probably he suspects there's dubious support for those positions outside of western Canada or among the opposition parties, and as a result has put just enough window dressing on the issue to say he took action.

It would be interesting, though, to see how the opposition would respond if he did push the issue.

It would have been interesting to see how the opposition would have responded. Oddly, enough Harper chose not to push for the same senate reforms that he preached...even at a time when the Liberals had no power whatsoever. The Bloc would oppose an equal senate, the NDP would likely support it. The Libs would be the question mark, but again they had zero power at the time.

I don't actually want an "any E" senate. I'd prefer they just abolish the thing. I don't think people actually want a senate that does anything. Make the senate elected and effective, and soon they'll start acting like they have a legitimate mandate. Do people actually want a senate that stands up to Parliament? I'm skeptical.

I want a Triple E senate. I'd like to see 5 to 8 elected from every province and territory. I don't think most people care either way though.

If you'd prefer to abolish the senate then what is your plan to ensure that Alberta is protected from evil central Canada? Wait for a massive influx of people?

Even if the Liberals win the next election it will likely be a minority. Maybe the Conservatives will start representing their constituents again as members of the opposition. Maybe then he can put forth a motion to reform the senate.

It's a lot easier to talk about big policy ideas when you're not actually in a position to enact them.

The Liberals' big plans for Kyoto right now, versus what they actually did while they were in office, are a good example of that.

Aye it is easier to shout from the sidelines... But your example was backwards. You're comparing what the Libs are saying now to what they did in the past. I find it much worse to say something before an election and then do the opposite. Like Chretien saying he'd abolish the GST or Harper saying they wouldn't touch income trusts.

At one time Harper was for electoral reform, elected senate, reducing the power of the PMO, free votes, grassroots democracy, etc. I think wait times were on his list of 5 core promises at one point too. He then ran on an accountability platform and turned out to be the same as the rest.

Just as a note, I don't support the Liberals. I just feel so let down by Harper and my CPC MP that I want them sent back to the sidelines.

[normanchateau]

New poll has Liberals ahead

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/200...06/2654110.html

[Saturn]

The fact that you are picking on immigrants and on non-white immigrants in particular shows that you are a racist xenophobe and gives your argument no substance whatsoever.

Reported to moderator.

Let's have some of your thoughts:

You see, this is what being a smug, arrogant Liberal means: You live in a fantasy world where the bills never have to be paid, the whole world loves you, and anyone (or even any province) that doesn't worship you is evil and irrelevent. It's the world of the spoiled "gimmie-gimmie" children without a thought in the world for anyone but themselves.

This is simple ignorance and bigotry.

Yeah, okay. Just put that tinfoil cap on a little tighter and it'll protect you from the evil mind rays emenating from the conservatives.

I'm with August. It was a snivelling, adolescent rant without reason or thought, the sulky response of an immature mind who doesn't understand why the world won't give her precisely what she wants, immediately.

This is ludicrous nonsense. First, you can appoint people from wherever you want. Nor, by the way, can you pull "traditions" out your ass and claim that the government is violating them. Fortier, so far as I've heard, is doing a good job, and you expect him to resign and run in a hopeless byelection where Jesus Christ couldn't get a seat? For what? So he can die a noble death? That's juvenile idiocy.

Maybe you should review a few posts instead of contributing your usual whiny, information-free crap.

I wonder if it's possible for you to go a single day without snivelling about imaginary Islamic theocracies or your imaginary gay bashing bills

I'm not going to deal with your bizarre obsessions on yet another thread.

[jdobbin]

New poll has Liberals ahead

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/200...06/2654110.html

I wonder if we will hear more complaints about the size of the test sample.

[normanchateau]

New poll has Liberals ahead

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/200...06/2654110.html

I wonder if we will hear more complaints about the size of the test sample.

Either that or they'll attempt to explain it away as a post-convention blip. But the trend actually started well before the convention.

[Saturn]

New poll has Liberals ahead

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/200...06/2654110.html

I wonder if we will hear more complaints about the size of the test sample.

No, but expect complaints about misrepresentation of the poll resutls from the left-wing media (Edmonton Sun).

[jdobbin]

Tell me if you see a pattern in these historic Canadian unemployment percents.

1975 7.1

1974 5.4

1973 5.6

1972 6.3

1971 6.4

1970 5.9

1969 4.7

1968 4.8

1967 4.1

1966 3.6

1965 3.9

Winnipeg 4.3 %

Regina 4.8 %

Saskatoon 3.7 %

Calgary 3.2 %

Edmonton 4.1 %

Vancouver 4.1 %

Victoria 4.0 %

Halifax 5.2%

Ottawa-Gatineau 5.1 %

All lower than 1975.

[scribblet]

scribblet

for a min. period of time. In fact, I think the Ontario gov't was talking about such a program at one time.

They also need to increase the spots in Universities for Canadian students.

What you are saying is garbage, because you can't argue that US or European doctors are any worse than Canadian doctors and they are still not allowed to practice in Canada. Even Canadians who graduated and got their licence in the US cannot practice in Canada. What the heck - even doctors from one province cannot practice in another without going through a bunch of hoops. That's plain dumb.

Why can't I argue that - and I am in fact, arguing that many European (or other) doctors have training which is below Canadian standards. Why should we allow doctors to practice here if they don't meet our standards? I would agree that within the provinces licensing should be standardized.

It is my understanding that most doctors from the U.S. and the U.K. can practice here with the exception of a one or two colleges.

[mikedavid00]

Tell me if you see a pattern in these historic Canadian unemployment percents.

1975 7.1

1974 5.4

1973 5.6

1972 6.3

1971 6.4

1970 5.9

1969 4.7

1968 4.8

1967 4.1

1966 3.6

1965 3.9

Winnipeg 4.3 %

Regina 4.8 %

Saskatoon 3.7 %

Calgary 3.2 %

Edmonton 4.1 %

Vancouver 4.1 %

Victoria 4.0 %

Halifax 5.2%

Ottawa-Gatineau 5.1 %

All lower than 1975.

Those were national numbers.

But please refer your source to the above data. I'm interested in reading about this.

[jdobbin]

Those were national numbers.

But please refer your source to the above data. I'm interested in reading about this.

Statistics Canada.

http://www.rhdsc.gc.ca/en/mb/lmiquarter4_06/wpg10.shtml

Manitoba 4.2 %

Saskatchewan 3.9 %

Alberta 3.0 %

British Columbia 4.6 %

[mikedavid00]

New poll has Liberals ahead

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/200...06/2654110.html

"It suggested the Liberals had the support of 35 per cent of respondents while the Tories were at 31 per cent, the NDP was at 12 per cent and the Green party was at 10 per cent. "

So basically the NDP are at 12% and the green party are at 10%?

I question this poll. but oh well.. these poles are entertainment..

You know gee.. i wonder who would back a Liberal with dual citizenship despite the CPC's stellar job... hmm..

Oh yeah.. that's who.

[mikedavid00]

Those were national numbers.

But please refer your source to the above data. I'm interested in reading about this.

Statistics Canada.

http://www.rhdsc.gc.ca/en/mb/lmiquarter4_06/wpg10.shtml

Manitoba 4.2 %

Saskatchewan 3.9 %

Alberta 3.0 %

British Columbia 4.6 %

Yes, the west is doing very well.

But

Province Rate

St. John’s, Nfld. 8.0 %

Halifax 5.2 %

Saint John, N.B. 6.1 %

Quebec City 5.7 %

Montreal 8.0 %

Ottawa-Gatineau 5.1 %

Sudbury 7.7 %

Toronto 6.7 %

Thunder Bay 7.8 %

[Saturn]

scribblet

for a min. period of time. In fact, I think the Ontario gov't was talking about such a program at one time.

They also need to increase the spots in Universities for Canadian students.

What you are saying is garbage, because you can't argue that US or European doctors are any worse than Canadian doctors and they are still not allowed to practice in Canada. Even Canadians who graduated and got their licence in the US cannot practice in Canada. What the heck - even doctors from one province cannot practice in another without going through a bunch of hoops. That's plain dumb.

Why can't I argue that - and I am in fact, arguing that many European (or other) doctors have training which is below Canadian standards. Why should we allow doctors to practice here if they don't meet our standards? I would agree that within the provinces licensing should be standardized.

It is my understanding that most doctors from the U.S. and the U.K. can practice here with the exception of a one or two colleges.

Your understanding is false. There is no such thing. US and UK doctors have to pass their Canadian medical exams and do their 3-year residency program at a Canadian hospital before they can practice in Canada just like doctors from any other country.

In addition, it is your right to wait as long as you want for medical treatment. I don't want to wait. So let them practice and you can choose your doctor. Nobody is forcing you to see a foreign doctor. You want the option to pay for health care and I want the option to choose a doctor to my liking.

[kimmy]

I don't actually want an "any E" senate. I'd prefer they just abolish the thing. I don't think people actually want a senate that does anything. Make the senate elected and effective, and soon they'll start acting like they have a legitimate mandate. Do people actually want a senate that stands up to Parliament? I'm skeptical.

I want a Triple E senate. I'd like to see 5 to 8 elected from every province and territory. I don't think most people care either way though.

I haven't seen any actual polls on the subject, but I doubt that the idea could be promoted in Ontario, or especially in Quebec. I've heard the comment made that any senate proposal that would put PEI on equal footing with Ontario is a non-starter with Ontario voters. And in Quebec, it would be greated with hostility, where the mere suggestion of Quebec being just 1 of 10 would be anathema. The theme of Quebec thought seems to be that Quebec is 1 of 2 nations, not 1 of 10 provinces.

Maybe we could have 24 Quebec senators, and 24 senators for English Canada. That would symbolize the Quebec "two nations" viewpoint. But first we'd have to make the senate utterly useless, so that it's a purely symbolic gesture.

evil central Canada

Don't be like that... I certainly don't suggest that central Canada is "evil". Just self-interested, as we all are.

I'm sure that people like Saturn are the exception and that most people in Ontario do indeed feel some amount of brotherhood towards people elsewhere in the country... and that while perhaps many in central Canada might not actually know much about us, they don't bear us any ill will.

I just think that sort of vague pan-national fuzzy-wuzziness will vanish in a hurry in the face of something tangiable, like an equalization formula that will put more money in Quebec's coffer while reducing Ontario's share of the load. Or the opportunity to address greenhouse gas issues on somebody else's dime. Or some sort of federal program to redistribute resource revenues. I mean, I don't think central Canada is evil or bears ill will toward us, I just think that given the opportunity, you guys will have no trouble rationalizing those kinds of ideas.

If you'd prefer to abolish the senate then what is your plan to ensure that Alberta is protected from evil central Canada? Wait for a massive influx of people?

I honestly don't know. I can't see any electoral or federal option that could be effective without also being inherently undemocratic.

The only solution I see is continuing to support the party that believes in "hands-off" federalism and clear demarcation and respect for provincial jurisdiction.

Just as a note, I don't support the Liberals. I just feel so let down by Harper and my CPC MP that I want them sent back to the sidelines.

Maybe I just had lower expectations.

-k

[normanchateau]

New poll has Liberals ahead

http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Canada/200...06/2654110.html

"It suggested the Liberals had the support of 35 per cent of respondents while the Tories were at 31 per cent, the NDP was at 12 per cent and the Green party was at 10 per cent. "

You know gee.. i wonder who would back a Liberal with dual citizenship despite the CPC's stellar job... hmm..

Apparently most Canadians don't view Harper's performance as "stellar" or he'd not be in second place to a Liberal with dual citizenship.

[scribblet]

Your understanding is false. There is no such thing. US and UK doctors have to pass their Canadian medical exams and do their 3-year residency program at a Canadian hospital before they can practice in Canada just like doctors from any other country.

In addition, it is your right to wait as long as you want for medical treatment. I don't want to wait. So let them practice and you can choose your doctor. Nobody is forcing you to see a foreign doctor. You want the option to pay for health care and I want the option to choose a doctor to my liking.

Fine, I wasn't sure.

However, the gov't has an obligation to see that health care workers meet our standards, why on earth would any gov't allow a foreign doctor to practice without the proper training and licensing. Unless of course you are suggesting we lower our standards to accommodate them. The first patient to have a problem would be suing the gov't for allowing it to happen.

Heck, if you feel that way why have any kind of standard or licensing at all, maybe I'll just put out a shingle and call myself a doctor, buy a few tools and some tonic water and we'll be back to the good old days.

[Saturn]

Your understanding is false. There is no such thing. US and UK doctors have to pass their Canadian medical exams and do their 3-year residency program at a Canadian hospital before they can practice in Canada just like doctors from any other country.

In addition, it is your right to wait as long as you want for medical treatment. I don't want to wait. So let them practice and you can choose your doctor. Nobody is forcing you to see a foreign doctor. You want the option to pay for health care and I want the option to choose a doctor to my liking.

Fine, I wasn't sure.

However, the gov't has an obligation to see that health care workers meet our standards, why on earth would any gov't allow a foreign doctor to practice without the proper training and licensing. Unless of course you are suggesting we lower our standards to accommodate them. The first patient to have a problem would be suing the gov't for allowing it to happen.

Heck, if you feel that way why have any kind of standard or licensing at all, maybe I'll just put out a shingle and call myself a doctor, buy a few tools and some tonic water and we'll be back to the good old days.

I never said that foreign doctors should not be licenced. I said that our health-care system and the medical associations do not want them to become licenced and get the proper training. They don't want a sufficient number of Canadian graduates to become licenced and get the proper training either. The Americans allow foreign doctors (Canadians included) to become licenced and get the proper training, which is why American patients get treated and we wait in lines. If those foreign doctors are good enough to treat Americans, why aren't they good enough to treat Canadians? Do we need some sort of special care that Americans don't need?

[blueblood]

Your understanding is false. There is no such thing. US and UK doctors have to pass their Canadian medical exams and do their 3-year residency program at a Canadian hospital before they can practice in Canada just like doctors from any other country.

In addition, it is your right to wait as long as you want for medical treatment. I don't want to wait. So let them practice and you can choose your doctor. Nobody is forcing you to see a foreign doctor. You want the option to pay for health care and I want the option to choose a doctor to my liking.

Fine, I wasn't sure.

However, the gov't has an obligation to see that health care workers meet our standards, why on earth would any gov't allow a foreign doctor to practice without the proper training and licensing. Unless of course you are suggesting we lower our standards to accommodate them. The first patient to have a problem would be suing the gov't for allowing it to happen.

Heck, if you feel that way why have any kind of standard or licensing at all, maybe I'll just put out a shingle and call myself a doctor, buy a few tools and some tonic water and we'll be back to the good old days.

I never said that foreign doctors should not be licenced. I said that our health-care system and the medical associations do not want them to become licenced and get the proper training. They don't want a sufficient number of Canadian graduates to become licenced and get the proper training either. The Americans allow foreign doctors (Canadians included) to become licenced and get the proper training, which is why American patients get treated and we wait in lines. If those foreign doctors are good enough to treat Americans, why aren't they good enough to treat Canadians? Do we need some sort of special care that Americans don't need?

Perhaps if the system and medical associations was whipped like Harper's and Layton's caucus we wouldn't have a problem...

[MightyAC]

I haven't seen any actual polls on the subject, but I doubt that the idea could be promoted in Ontario, or especially in Quebec.

The Bloc would make it an issue in Quebec but most Ontarions couldn't care less. In fact, just like out there most people here are sick and tired of hearing about the whining Quebecois.

Just as a note, I don't support the Liberals. I just feel so let down by Harper and my CPC MP that I want them sent back to the sidelines.

Maybe I just had lower expectations.

Or Harper's policies are just a better fit for you...there's nothing wrong with that. I wish I had a political home, but it's hard to find a socially progressive, fiscally conservative, pro-democracy party. I guess I'm looking for a party full of people like Garth Turner. (another reason I am angry with the CPC) Anyway, since one doesn't exist I'll keep pushing for electoral reform and bashing big party politics.

[Saturn]

Or Harper's policies are just a better fit for you...there's nothing wrong with that. I wish I had a political home, but it's hard to find a socially progressive, fiscally conservative, pro-democracy party. I guess I'm looking for a party full of people like Garth Turner. (another reason I am angry with the CPC) Anyway, since one doesn't exist I'll keep pushing for electoral reform and bashing big party politics.

May I suggest the Greens? But yes, there is far too few parties to choose from and only electoral reform can deliver more options.

[MightyAC]

Or Harper's policies are just a better fit for you...there's nothing wrong with that. I wish I had a political home, but it's hard to find a socially progressive, fiscally conservative, pro-democracy party. I guess I'm looking for a party full of people like Garth Turner. (another reason I am angry with the CPC) Anyway, since one doesn't exist I'll keep pushing for electoral reform and bashing big party politics.

May I suggest the Greens? But yes, there is far too few parties to choose from and only electoral reform can deliver more options.

The Greens are likely the closest match to my list of criteria. The problem is a vote for the Greens in almost every riding in Canada is a wasted vote under our BS electoral system. Winner take all systems waste nearly half the votes cast, distort election results, deter voter turnout and provide political representation to only about half of the country. Until we have a fair, proportional electoral system me and many others are forced to either cast strategic votes for parties we don't support or waste the ballot... I guess I could just stay home like 40% + of voters do.

[mcqueen625]

...will there be a loud call for Albertan seperation?

You wish!

[ClearWest]

I wish I had a political home, but it's hard to find a socially progressive, fiscally conservative, pro-democracy party. I guess I'm looking for a party full of people like Garth Turner. (another reason I am angry with the CPC) Anyway, since one doesn't exist I'll keep pushing for electoral reform and bashing big party politics.

Actually, that sounds quite similar to the Libertarian party. You might want to check it out.