So who is your pick for the Liberals?

fellowtraveller · December 1, 2006

Dion will win for one very simple reason; he is the safe, traditional style Liberal candidate.

On an aside, I have been laughing out loud at the completely over-the-top, fawning asslicking coverage of the Liberal convention by the CBC. Last night Newsworld featured updates every 15 minutes of an empty auditorium, nothing happening, nobody there except CBC. Classic stuff.

ClearWest · December 2, 2006

If I had to pick one to run the country, it would be Gerard Kennedy. If I had to pick one to totally drive the Liberal party into the ground, it would be Ignatieff or Rae.

gc1765 · December 2, 2006

If I had to pick one to run the country, it would be Gerard Kennedy. If I had to pick one to totally drive the Liberal party into the ground, it would be Ignatieff or Rae.

I agree! It's too bad the Liberal delegates don't feel the same way

geoffrey · December 2, 2006

If I had to pick one to run the country, it would be Gerard Kennedy. If I had to pick one to totally drive the Liberal party into the ground, it would be Ignatieff or Rae.

I agree! It's too bad the Liberal delegates don't feel the same way

I think it's safe to say the MapleLeaf forum contributors strongly endorse Kennedy?

He had a great speech tonight, far better than Iggy's or Rae's, and just knocked Dion's out of the water.

Kennedy has support from all sorts of contributors here, myself (conservative), Canadian Blue (conservative), ClearWest (libertarian), qc (liberal type), jdobbin (not a real endorsement but how can you expect one from an anti-CBC liberal), apollo19 (don't really know where he/she stands).

I think Iggy has BB and that's about it?

Rae... who supports Rae? Oh yes, gerry.

And Dion, he's got August. And a reluctant Rue.

If these forums are representative of Canada, then Kennedy is the best choice for Canada.

jdobbin · December 2, 2006

I think it's safe to say the MapleLeaf forum contributors strongly endorse Kennedy?
He had a great speech tonight, far better than Iggy's or Rae's, and just knocked Dion's out of the water.

Kennedy has support from all sorts of contributors here, myself (conservative), Canadian Blue (conservative), ClearWest (libertarian), qc (liberal type), jdobbin (not a real endorsement but how can you expect one from an anti-CBC liberal), apollo19 (don't really know where he/she stands).

I'm not anti CBC but death by a thousand cuts makes it hard to watch (not to mention its dependence on sport and Hollywood movies). I support a debate on CBC's future and the future off all media in Canada including the regulatory body of the CRTC. I certainly wouldn't make a unilateral move as the Tories are doing on the Wheat Board.

I like Kennedy. I could live with him as leader. But one thing is certain, whoever is leader needs Dion. Dion, likewise, would need Kennedy if the show is on the other foot.

I don't think you can rule out Ignatieff and Rae coming together in some counter combination either.

I still don't know who would be the best leader. I just know that they need each other to fill gaps each has when it comes to overall leadership.

geoffrey · December 2, 2006

Either Rae or Iggy need to give delegates to each other to win.

Here's how I have it broken down in my mind:

First ballot:

Iggy 30%

Rae 20%

Kennedy 17.5%

Dion 16%

Second ballot:

Rae ~35%

Iggy ~20%

Kennedy ~20%

Dion ~20% (but behind Kennedy, there are more anglophones)

Third ballot:

Kennedy 40%

Rae ~35%

Iggy ~20%

So that leaves a fourth ballot victory for either Kennedy or Rae. My money is that Rae votes Kennedy rather than Iggy voting Rae.

geoffrey · December 2, 2006

Dion would likely be a high profile minister under Kennedy. Definitely his 'Quebec lieutenant.'

Canadian Blue · December 2, 2006

Actually when I did a quiz I found myself agreeing with the NDP on some fiscal and social policy. I don't mind paying a few extra taxes if I can see that it is helping out my economy. But in recent years I haven't seen how government spending has alleviated climate change, poverty, and post secondary education. What I'd prefer is a government who doesn't throw money at a problem, but instead finds creative ways of solving issues instead of trying to tax and spend hoping it will eventually go away.

I wasn't impressed with the blatant partisanship the Liberal's showed however. It reminds me to much of American's who were saying anybody that disagrees with us is "unAmerican" and not patriotic. The Liberal's idea that they are the only ones who hold Canadian values shows arrogance on their part. I would be more impressed by a candidate who says he wants to work with all parties in order to solve the countries problems instead of just bashing the leader of another party.

It's much easier to bash a person than it is to go through the painstaking process of finding new ideas.

Biblio Bibuli · December 2, 2006

I think Iggy has BB and that's about it?

After his speech tonight I'm not only 100% certain, I'm way over 100% certain that Iggy is going to win. What a beautiful and powerful speech that was ..... it sent tingles down my spine.

You know, it is not too late to switch, Geoffrey. Think about your reputation.

You've got about an hour, that's all!

BB

Biblio Bibuli · December 2, 2006

I think Iggy has BB and that's about it?

After his speech tonight I'm not only 100% certain, I'm way over 100% certain that Iggy is going to win. What a beautiful and powerful speech that was ..... it sent tingles down my spine.

You know, it is not too late to switch, Geoffrey. Think about your reputation.

You've got about an hour, that's all!

BB

Oh and by the way, not that I think that that'll make any difference to you as it may to some other people, but just in case ..... his eyes are blue.

You have only about a half hour left ........ tick tock, tick tock, tick tock.

BB

gc1765 · December 2, 2006

First Ballot Results:

Iggy: 29.3%

Rae: 20.3%

Dion: 17.8%

Kennedy: 17.7%

This is going to be a close one...I think every ballot will be close...

Biblio Bibuli · December 2, 2006

First Ballot Results:
Iggy: 29.3%

Rae: 20.3%

Dion: 17.8%

Kennedy: 17.7%

This is going to be a close one...I think every ballot will be close...

PERFECT!

Can you imagine if the ex-oficios clung to Iggy right away? The next thing you know every low life will start complaining that the big shots won.

Keep it low I say, and so does Iggy.

GO IGGY GO!

Slavik44 · December 2, 2006

As far as personal choice is concerned my favourites would be Kennedy and Brison, Brison is so far out of it he isn't even a longshot he is a no shot and then Kennedy he would have a tough road ahead of him. With Dion jumping ahead of Kennedy into third, on the first ballot, I suppose he might be my third choice. However if it came down to it I would take Ignatief over Rae. I really don't like Rae as Prime Minister of this country. I think Rae is better suited to a role of a critical force, a cow prod from the left so to speak. But not someone to actually be the one in control. I don't see Rae offering new Ideas to promote a new and better Canada, or a new and better business environemnt. As time wore on during the liberal dynasty it really seemed like they had run out of fresh ideas, and were just rehashing the old ideas. Which is why people like Kennedy and Brison hold a larger appeal to me. I am a little leary of Dion, in that he has been labeld as the safe choice, the typical liberal. Unfortunately I was cooking dinner and didn't get to see Dion's speech, but I would have liked to see if he could bust out of that typical liberal typcast given to him...I haven't seen or heard much of him during this campaign.

geoffrey · December 2, 2006

I think Iggy has BB and that's about it?

After his speech tonight I'm not only 100% certain, I'm way over 100% certain that Iggy is going to win. What a beautiful and powerful speech that was ..... it sent tingles down my spine.

You know, it is not too late to switch, Geoffrey. Think about your reputation.

You've got about an hour, that's all!

BB

Nah, I'm still behind a Kennedy victory. Wait and see. The second ballot is far more telling. Whoever finishes ahead, Kennedy or Dion, will be the next leader. I figure Kennedy will finish ahead. Iggy has tons more anglophone support to shed to Kennedy than he does to Dion.

I'll be up early tomorrow to watch (7am here!) despite having a bottle and a half of some fantastic wine tonight (finally watched the Constant Gardener, fantastic film).

Biblio Bibuli · December 2, 2006

I'll be up early tomorrow to watch (7am here!)

I heard that some super-duper heavyweight will waltz onto the Liberal convention floor this morning, to put his support squarely behind Iggy?

Who could it be? Could it be Benedict XVI? Better yet, could it be JC?

JC is my bet!

Since you're up and rolling maybe you could keep an eye out for him.

Thanks in advance!

jdobbin · December 2, 2006

I'll be up early tomorrow to watch (7am here!) despite having a bottle and a half of some fantastic wine tonight (finally watched the Constant Gardener, fantastic film).

Did you see the 10 clip they filmed in Winnipeg? <heh> It showed the Royal Mint in Winnipeg.

I just flipped on the TV to see how the vote pans out. Some heavyweights have moved to Rae.

geoffrey · December 2, 2006

I've been watching since about 8am out here, 10am back East. Iggy is bleeding bad. He looked ready to quit. I think my previous prediction of a Rae lead on the second ballot is going to come through.

They need to pick someone soon though, I've got the skis all ready to go and I need a Liberal leader before I can vote for the PC leader.

August1991 · December 2, 2006

Well, I went down and saw the Ignatieff and Rae speeches live.

I liked Rae's Sinatra/Trudeau walkabout even though he rambled and didn't say much in French. Ignatieff was too stilted. He also repeated himself in the two languages.

The convention is well organized. Supporters moved in and out smoothly as the candidates spoke. The two big screens mean everyone sees what's going on. The Palais has a low ceiling but it also has the flashing lights and the aerial cameras. It's a fun atmosphere. Despite the few sikhs, it's a white faced crowd. Many delegates looked like time-share sales staff or small town land title lawyers. I kept expecting them to pull out a business card as they eyed me. The Liberal Party has its share of shyster wannabes.

I went to the Tory debate between Harper, Stronach and Clement. By comparison, Liberals are a lot more fun and sexy.

Name dropping

Ignatieff walked by me as did Paul Martin and his wife and Don Newman. (Ignatieff is more attractive in person than on TV. He's taller, swarthy and he has grey-blue eyes that look old. Martin looks jowly old and his wife like a Westmount matron. Newman looks like an old guy you'd see waiting for a bus.) Marc Lalonde was a spry, tanned senior citizen.

I had no desire to shake any of these people's hands or do a photo op.

----

Second ballot results about to come.

geoffrey · December 2, 2006

Terrible. Kennedy dropped out. He had Iggy if he could have stayed on that ballot. Ugh.

Oh well. Time to go vote for Morton. Three anti-Alberta candidates remain, despite Iggy's belief that his self-allusion to Trudeau and his love of carbon taxes is favoured in Calgary.

Unfortunately the Liberals just gave themselves another many years in opposition.

Canadian Blue · December 2, 2006

I went to the Tory debate between Harper, Stronach and Clement. By comparison, Liberals are a lot more fun and sexy.

Yeah I noticed that their were a few good looking girls there, and they were handing out condom's. Didn't really see the point of that other than to show their intolerant of Catholic and Muslim religious views :lol: .

Are they having a sex orgy there or a debate on ideas!!!

Anyways, yeah I was dissapointed to see Kennedy go, after the speeches which were very partisan I think alot of Albertan's will be voting for Morton. When the Liberal's say they represent Canadian values that makes most Western Canadian's shudder in disgust.

geoffrey · December 2, 2006

Exactly CB. Where exactly will ANY of these candidates pick up seats?

Iggy, maybe a few in Quebec, few in Ontario. Rae? None. Dion?!!? Dion will cost them seats everywhere.

Kennedy will be the next Liberal PM, after they realise their stupidity in electing an incomprehendable Quebecois that isn't even liked in his own province. 4 more years of Harper. Again, another tradegy.

Canadian Blue · December 2, 2006

Well, what I liked about Kennedy was he was honest. He actually believes in what he says regarding social justic and his record is proof of that. All of the other candidates are simply spouting some nonsense who may have had little experience compared with Kennedy when it comes to the poor or "disadvantaged" in this country. I don't see where Iggy might pick up seats in Ontario and Quebec, however I doubt any in western Canada. Dion doesn't seem like he has to much of a chance anywhere, and Rae is completely out of it in Ontario. I was reading Kinsella's blog and their are lifelong Liberal's from Ontario who are saying they will leave the party if Rae becomes leader.

August1991 · December 2, 2006

Kennedy is not a national leader, not now. He may become one although his French is non-existent and that's not going to change. It should be lost on no one that the three remaining candidates all functional well in both languages. Although his French is lousy, Harper would not be PM if he was unable to do an interview in French. (It's not merely the language; it's also the ability to understand Quebec.)

----

None of the people I saw at the convention inspired the kind of charismatic enthusiasm of Trudeau. When Trudeau was in a room, there was a sense of his presence. Ignatieff doesn't have that nor does Rae. Dion least of all. (I think it's a question of ego since I have found that stage actors have this more than most.)

Something else about the convention. It was annoying to hear the candidates talk about helping aboriginals and the poor in society to a room full of people who were there to do business.

It was also interesting to see a meeting of Liberals when they were out of power. It's like seeing a squirrel on a sidewalk. Not a natural position and the squirrel wants to go back to where it should be. This is the closest you'll ever see Liberals to self-doubt.

----

I still see Dion winning. He'll certainly be on the last ballot. It'll be Dion vs. either Rae or Ignatieff. (I think Ignatieff will be third on the third ballot and get dropped off but who knows.) (Incidentally, it's not because I want Dion to win but because I figure he'll win by default. As BD would say, I don't have a dog in this fight.)

Stephen Harper is winning this convention because whether he faces Dion or Rae, he'll still win. Hence, that may explain the sense of self-doubt I saw on the Liberal faces.

gc1765 · December 2, 2006

Now that Kennedy is out...I guess I'll go with the lesser of three evils....Stephane Dion.

Canuck E Stan · December 2, 2006

I still see Dion winning. He'll certainly be on the last ballot. It'll be Dion vs. either Rae or Ignatieff. (I think Ignatieff will be third on the third ballot and get dropped off but who knows.) (Incidentally, it's not because I want Dion to win but because I figure he'll win by default. As BD would say, I don't have a dog in this fight.)
Stephen Harper is winning this convention because whether he faces Dion or Rae, he'll still win. Hence, that may explain the sense of self-doubt I saw on the Liberal faces.

If Dion is in the final ballot,Rae delegates will go with Ignatieff, or Ignatieff delegates will go with Rae.

So I don't think that Dion will win in the end.

As was said on the convention floor by a conservative senator,"What you have here is a failed environment minister,up against a failed Premier, up against someone who hasn't lived in this country for three and a half decades."

The winner? You're right, August.

Stephen Harper.