Cost of Conservative Promise

[jdobbin]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/061102/...der_guards_guns

That's a pretty big increase. I thought Day was against $900 million increases on promises such as the Liberal promise on the gun control registry. And yet, here is making one of his own big increases.

[geoffrey]

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/061102/...der_guards_guns

That's a pretty big increase. I thought Day was against $900 million increases on promises such as the Liberal promise on the gun control registry. And yet, here is making one of his own big increases.

What's the increase from, you missed the last line. There were no long term predictions released.

[gc1765]

Can someone explain this to me...

It costs $100 million per year to arm 4,000 border guards? That's $25,000 per year per guard. Why does it cost so much? I can't cost that much just for the gun & training? Administrative costs?

I wonder how fiscal conservatives feel about this. Could this be the Conservatives' answer to the gun registry? I thought a lot of people were outraged about a program that costs billions and leaves us marginally safer?

[jdobbin]

What's the increase from, you missed the last line. There were no long term predictions released.

The article has been revised from when I first linked it.

"Actual firearms training will likely cost $40 million a year, he said. But there will be additional spending on new training facilities and other infrastructure, as well as administrative and support expenses."

The promise during the election was that it would be $100 million total. A huge increase from a promise not well costed out.

[Ricki Bobbi]

The article has been revised from when I first linked it.

"Actual firearms training will likely cost $40 million a year, he said. But there will be additional spending on new training facilities and other infrastructure, as well as administrative and support expenses."

The promise during the election was that it would be $100 million total. A huge increase from a promise not well costed out.

Do you have a problem with arming border guards?

If money is such a big deal why not cut funding to the CBC? This is money well-spent.

[geoffrey]

Can someone explain this to me...

It costs $100 million per year to arm 4,000 border guards? That's $25,000 per year per guard. Why does it cost so much? I can't cost that much just for the gun & training? Administrative costs?

I wonder how fiscal conservatives feel about this. Could this be the Conservatives' answer to the gun registry? I thought a lot of people were outraged about a program that costs billions and leaves us marginally safer?

Oh gc. From my favourite tax and spend to the max socialist on the board, your concerned about administration costs being too high.

I applaud you, I too am shocked.

Apply that rational to the health care or welfare or Indian systems and you'll be a conservative in no time.

[gc1765]

Oh gc. From my favourite tax and spend to the max socialist on the board, your concerned about administration costs being too high.

I applaud you, I too am shocked.

Apply that rational to the health care or welfare or Indian systems and you'll be a conservative in no time.

I'm not a tax and spend socialist. I'm fairly conservative fiscally (though not as conservative as someone like yourself, and tend to me a little more progressive...perhaps a progressive conservative ). It is social policies where I am way out in left field

I'm pretty sure that health care saves more lives per dollar than arming border guards (or the gun registry for that matter).

EDIT: I guess you could sum up my views as someone who believes in smaller government

[Argus]

Can someone explain this to me...

It costs $100 million per year to arm 4,000 border guards? That's $25,000 per year per guard. Why does it cost so much? I can't cost that much just for the gun & training? Administrative costs?

I wonder how fiscal conservatives feel about this. Could this be the Conservatives' answer to the gun registry? I thought a lot of people were outraged about a program that costs billions and leaves us marginally safer?

From the link:

The biggest chunk of cash, he said, will likely go to hire 400 new guards to augment the 4,800 already on duty at land border points.

The aim is to ensure there are at least two officers on duty at any given time and at any given border crossing.

[B. Max]

Can someone explain this to me...

It costs $100 million per year to arm 4,000 border guards? That's $25,000 per year per guard. Why does it cost so much? I can't cost that much just for the gun & training?

I don't see any reason why they can't supply their own guns. I'll bet the price tag would come away down.

[jdobbin]

From the link:

The biggest chunk of cash, he said, will likely go to hire 400 new guards to augment the 4,800 already on duty at land border points.

The aim is to ensure there are at least two officers on duty at any given time and at any given border crossing.

$1 billion for 5,200 guards? That's a lot of money per guard.

And the promise was for $100 million. Amazing how these things add up.

[blueblood]

Maybe the guards are getting a raise too, i think they deserve it, its a pretty dangerous job, about time they're getting armed. Not arming a border guard makes as much sense as the greeter in a wal-mart store, what the hell are they good for. Also I hope some of that money goes into some sort of screening process, now that they have guns and have the authority to shoot people, I'd think you'd want to have as disciplined and well trained guards at the border, not some trigger happy deputy sherriff from dixie. It's good that they are getting armed, but we should make sure they are properly trained. Typical left wing, against the use of physical force to protect something.

[jdobbin]

Maybe the guards are getting a raise too, i think they deserve it, its a pretty dangerous job, about time they're getting armed. Not arming a border guard makes as much sense as the greeter in a wal-mart store, what the hell are they good for. Also I hope some of that money goes into some sort of screening process, now that they have guns and have the authority to shoot people, I'd think you'd want to have as disciplined and well trained guards at the border, not some trigger happy deputy sherriff from dixie. It's good that they are getting armed, but we should make sure they are properly trained. Typical left wing, against the use of physical force to protect something.

Typical right wing for underestimating security costs. I guess we'll be justifying $100 hammers soon.

[blueblood]

Maybe the guards are getting a raise too, i think they deserve it, its a pretty dangerous job, about time they're getting armed. Not arming a border guard makes as much sense as the greeter in a wal-mart store, what the hell are they good for. Also I hope some of that money goes into some sort of screening process, now that they have guns and have the authority to shoot people, I'd think you'd want to have as disciplined and well trained guards at the border, not some trigger happy deputy sherriff from dixie. It's good that they are getting armed, but we should make sure they are properly trained. Typical left wing, against the use of physical force to protect something.

Typical right wing for underestimating security costs. I guess we'll be justifying $100 hammers soon.

I'd rather spend a billion bucks on helping someone do their job, making their job and our country safer, creating jobs than send over 5 billion on the kelowna accord or piles of money to special interest groups. What do you expect the border guard to do with someone who is caught armed trying to run drugs over the border and decides to shoot at them, ask them to politely stop?

[geoffrey]

I'd rather spend a billion bucks on helping someone do their job, making their job and our country safer, creating jobs than send over 5 billion on the kelowna accord or piles of money to special interest groups. What do you expect the border guard to do with someone who is caught armed trying to run drugs over the border and decides to shoot at them, ask them to politely stop?

I'd rather not waste my money on either. Border guards need guns, but it shouldn't cost that much. It can be done cheaper.

[jdobbin]

I'd rather spend a billion bucks on helping someone do their job, making their job and our country safer, creating jobs than send over 5 billion on the kelowna accord or piles of money to special interest groups. What do you expect the border guard to do with someone who is caught armed trying to run drugs over the border and decides to shoot at them, ask them to politely stop?

You should be angry at the underestimating of costs. Are not a fiscal Conservative? If they can screw the costing of that, they can screw up other things.

[blueblood]

I'd rather spend a billion bucks on helping someone do their job, making their job and our country safer, creating jobs than send over 5 billion on the kelowna accord or piles of money to special interest groups. What do you expect the border guard to do with someone who is caught armed trying to run drugs over the border and decides to shoot at them, ask them to politely stop?

You should be angry at the underestimating of costs. Are not a fiscal Conservative? If they can screw the costing of that, they can screw up other things.

well i should hope they don't screw up other costings, i'd say its one of the smarter large investments, I don't know how much it would really cost, I'm not in cabinet, maybe it would really cost a billion or only a hundred million. There are some programs that are worth it, some are not worth it. Like I said maybe those guards are getting a well deserved raise.

[geoffrey]

Don't worry, they'll just raise taxes again if they need more.

[gc1765]

Don't worry, they'll just raise taxes again if they need more.

You're not the only one who had their taxes raised

Of course my tax raise was back in their budget when they raised income taxes. (I won't (directly) loose any money with their most recent tax raise). I guess now you know how it feels

[geoffrey]

Don't worry, they'll just raise taxes again if they need more.

You're not the only one who had their taxes raised

Of course my tax raise was back in their budget when they raised income taxes. (I won't (directly) loose any money with their most recent tax raise). I guess now you know how it feels

Everyone's tax went up in the budget, but down with the GST cut. I supported that move, I thought it was reasonable. Less money was going to the government, so more money was going to me.

Now more money is going to the government, so we all have less of it. Very sad.

[gc1765]

Everyone's tax went up in the budget, but down with the GST cut. I supported that move, I thought it was reasonable. Less money was going to the government, so more money was going to me.

Now more money is going to the government, so we all have less of it. Very sad.

Overall, most people's taxes went down in the budget when you factor in the GST cut, child tax credit etc...

For someone with no children who spends virtually all of my money on food, tuition & rent, I don't benefit from their so called "tax cuts" as much as I loose out on their tax increase. Bad for me personally.

I think the conservatives are cutting taxes to make up for their taxing income trusts. The money will help them pay for the next GST cut, plus splitting income, possible corporate tax cuts etc... Overall, taxes probably won't change that much, but if you have money invested in income trusts you will loose out personally (while others may gain).

P.S. sorry for getting off-topic

[Ricki Bobbi]

Overall, most people's taxes went down in the budget when you factor in the GST cut, child tax credit etc...

For someone with no children who spends virtually all of my money on food, tuition & rent, I don't benefit from their so called "tax cuts" as much as I loose out on their tax increase. Bad for me personally.

I think the conservatives are cutting taxes to make up for their taxing income trusts. The money will help them pay for the next GST cut, plus splitting income, possible corporate tax cuts etc... Overall, taxes probably won't change that much, but if you have money invested in income trusts you will loose out personally (while others may gain).

P.S. sorry for getting off-topic

You forget your credit for books and transit pass to get to skill.

Share your tax info and I can show you how you are better off under the Conservatives than you would have been under the Liberals.

[jdobbin]

well i should hope they don't screw up other costings, i'd say its one of the smarter large investments, I don't know how much it would really cost, I'm not in cabinet, maybe it would really cost a billion or only a hundred million. There are some programs that are worth it, some are not worth it. Like I said maybe those guards are getting a well deserved raise.

That wasn't the initial promise of the Tories. They never talked about raises when they made the initial estimate. If it had been the Liberals responsible for this underestimate, you would have called them incompetent. I certainly did when they ran up the money on the gun registry. This Conservatives have now made an incompetent estimate for arming border guards.

[Ricki Bobbi]

That wasn't the initial promise of the Tories. They never talked about raises when they made the initial estimate. If it had been the Liberals responsible for this underestimate, you would have called them incompetent. I certainly did when they ran up the money on the gun registry. This Conservatives have now made an incompetent estimate for arming border guards.

Hey, even the CBC isn't being as misleading as you are on this one.

The $100 million was originally stated as the cost to set up the programming of arming the border guards.

The $1 billion is the cost over the next ten years.

tsk, tsk, if you gotta resort to such a blatant misrepresentation to attack the Government on it means they can't really be doing anything really bad.

[gc1765]

You forget your credit for books and transit pass to get to skill.

Share your tax info and I can show you how you are better off under the Conservatives than you would have been under the Liberals.

I don't need books. The transit pass is a great idea, but it's included in my tuition which is already tax exempt.

[gc1765]

From the link:

The biggest chunk of cash, he said, will likely go to hire 400 new guards to augment the 4,800 already on duty at land border points.

The aim is to ensure there are at least two officers on duty at any given time and at any given border crossing.

Ok...how much do border guards make a year? 50K? Times that by 400, that's $20 million per year. What about the other $80 million?