betsy Posted October 28, 2006 Author Report Posted October 28, 2006 But we are not talking of terrorism, are we? You seem to equate the mere mention of the word, "Muslim"....to terrorism. No, I do not equate Muslim with terrorism, and to suggest such a thing is personally insulting to me. I only brought it up because it happened to be in the link that YOU provided, and because some people are STILL in denial that Muslims are condemning terrorism, despite all of the other links I have provided on other threads. Whether some people are in denial or not that Muslims are condemning terrorism...or whether some people are in denial that terrorism is not faith-based and had only come to be because of Bush....this is not the thread for it. I am talking of Sharia Law.....being practised in Canada. I want to have other input or viewpoint about this. It would be nice to hear what the Gay advocates.....or the Womens' Right advocates in this forum think about having the Sharia Law in Canada. Do they agree or what? Quote
betsy Posted October 28, 2006 Author Report Posted October 28, 2006 I simply asked for more information to back up someone else's claim that this Sharia law which has been taking place in Canada since 1991 involves violence. Do you think there is no wife beating? I guess taking an accurate survey is almost impossible with this community. Most probably it will be like trying to spot a victim of white slavery....the victims are afraid to talk. Quote
gc1765 Posted October 28, 2006 Report Posted October 28, 2006 Do you think there is no wife beating? I guess taking an accurate survey is almost impossible with this community. Most probably it will be like trying to spot a victim of white slavery....the victims are afraid to talk. You mean wife beating related to the Sharia law which was sanctioned by the Ontario government? If you or anyone else wants to make this claim, then please back it up with some proof rather than just speculating. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
jbg Posted October 28, 2006 Report Posted October 28, 2006 There always is in Islam. Do you have proof of this? Or do you simply go by stereotypes? A proof is a proof. Frankly, I learned most of what I need to know about Islam between 8:45 a.m. and 11:00 a.m., EDT on September 11, 2001. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
gc1765 Posted October 28, 2006 Report Posted October 28, 2006 Do you have proof of this? Or do you simply go by stereotypes? A proof is a proof. Frankly, I learned most of what I need to know about Islam between 8:45 a.m. and 11:00 a.m., EDT on September 11, 2001. I take it you are choosing to go with stereotypes. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
jbg Posted October 28, 2006 Report Posted October 28, 2006 Do you have proof of this? Or do you simply go by stereotypes? A proof is a proof. Frankly, I learned most of what I need to know about Islam between 8:45 a.m. and 11:00 a.m., EDT on September 11, 2001. I take it you are choosing to go with stereotypes. Were those attacks "stereotypes" or a cowardly, random attack on innocent people. OK, if you don't want to discuss September 11, how about: The Olympic Massacre of 1972; The bombing of the US Marine barracks in 1983 (the troops were there as "peacekeepers); The Berlin disco attack; Lockerbie; World Trade Center 1993 attack; The 1998 Embassy attacks; The pizza parlour attack in Israel; The disco attack in Tel Aviv; The attack on a synagogue in Turkey (during 2003 or 2004); The attack on the Israeli Embassy in Argentina; The attack on a Jewish cultural center in Argentina; The attempted attack on jetliners this past summer; The London subway attack; and the Spanish train attacks of March 11, 2004. Are these "stereotypes"? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
gc1765 Posted October 28, 2006 Report Posted October 28, 2006 Were those attacks "stereotypes" or a cowardly, random attack on innocent people. OK, if you don't want to discuss September 11, how about: The Olympic Massacre of 1972; The bombing of the US Marine barracks in 1983 (the troops were there as "peacekeepers); The Berlin disco attack; Lockerbie; World Trade Center 1993 attack; The 1998 Embassy attacks; The pizza parlour attack in Israel; The disco attack in Tel Aviv; The attack on a synagogue in Turkey (during 2003 or 2004); The attack on the Israeli Embassy in Argentina; The attack on a Jewish cultural center in Argentina; The attempted attack on jetliners this past summer; The London subway attack; and the Spanish train attacks of March 11, 2004. Are these "stereotypes"? Huh? All of those are examples of cowardly, random attacks on innocent people. Now, what do those have to do with the Sharia law which has apparently been taking place in Canada since 1991? Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
gerryhatrick Posted October 28, 2006 Report Posted October 28, 2006 Do you think there is no wife beating? I guess taking an accurate survey is almost impossible with this community. Most probably it will be like trying to spot a victim of white slavery....the victims are afraid to talk. You mean wife beating related to the Sharia law which was sanctioned by the Ontario government? If you or anyone else wants to make this claim, then please back it up with some proof rather than just speculating. Exactly. Some posters don't even care about the reality of a situation....anything involving Muslims and they go find the most extreme internet link they can and start ranting about how all Muslims are all scum. The REALITY of what was being discussed in Ontario is irrelavent to them. Quote Conservative Party of Canada taking image advice from US Republican pollster: http://allpoliticsnow.com
jdobbin Posted October 28, 2006 Report Posted October 28, 2006 Were those attacks "stereotypes" or a cowardly, random attack on innocent people. OK, if you don't want to discuss September 11, how about: The Olympic Massacre of 1972; The bombing of the US Marine barracks in 1983 (the troops were there as "peacekeepers); The Berlin disco attack; Lockerbie; World Trade Center 1993 attack; The 1998 Embassy attacks; The pizza parlour attack in Israel; The disco attack in Tel Aviv; The attack on a synagogue in Turkey (during 2003 or 2004); The attack on the Israeli Embassy in Argentina; The attack on a Jewish cultural center in Argentina; The attempted attack on jetliners this past summer; The London subway attack; and the Spanish train attacks of March 11, 2004. Are these "stereotypes"? What do you believe should be done about Muslims then? Quote
jbg Posted October 29, 2006 Report Posted October 29, 2006 Were those attacks "stereotypes" or a cowardly, random attack on innocent people. OK, if you don't want to discuss September 11, how about: The Olympic Massacre of 1972; The bombing of the US Marine barracks in 1983 (the troops were there as "peacekeepers); The Berlin disco attack; Lockerbie; World Trade Center 1993 attack; The 1998 Embassy attacks; The pizza parlour attack in Israel; The disco attack in Tel Aviv; The attack on a synagogue in Turkey (during 2003 or 2004); The attack on the Israeli Embassy in Argentina; The attack on a Jewish cultural center in Argentina; The attempted attack on jetliners this past summer; The London subway attack; and the Spanish train attacks of March 11, 2004. Are these "stereotypes"? What do you believe should be done about Muslims then? As a compassionate person, I don't want to see things end badly for the Muslims. I fear a horrific ending for them if they keep this up for any length of time. Horrible beyond imagination. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jdobbin Posted October 29, 2006 Report Posted October 29, 2006 As a compassionate person, I don't want to see things end badly for the Muslims. I fear a horrific ending for them if they keep this up for any length of time. Horrible beyond imagination. So you suspect a pogrom. Quote
betsy Posted October 29, 2006 Author Report Posted October 29, 2006 I simply asked for more information to back up someone else's claim that this Sharia law which has been taking place in Canada since 1991 involves violence. Do you think there is no wife beating? I guess taking an accurate survey is almost impossible with this community. Most probably it will be like trying to spot a victim of white slavery....the victims are afraid to talk. "While North American Muslims loudly protest the widely-documented Serbian abuse of Muslim women in Bosnia, the abuse of many Muslim women at the hands of their own husbands in North America is hidden and ignored by the community. Domestic violence is the single major cause of injury to women in America. "Nearly one quarter of women in the United States - more than 12 million- will be abused by a current or former partner some time during their lives," according to the American Medical Association; and, despite Islamic teachings of justice and compassion, many Muslim women in the United States and Canada are no exception. Based on information from Muslim leaders, social workers, and activists in North America, the North American Council for Muslim Women says that approximately 10 percent of Muslim women are abused emotionally, physically, and sexually by their Muslim husbands. (There are no hard numbers, because community leaders haven't taken the well-known problem seriously enough to research.) Wife-abuse, which stretches across all ethnic, racial, educational, and socio-economic lines in the Muslim community, results in severe emotional and physical pain for many Muslim women, a stacking up of sins for many Muslim men, and many weak, unhappy Muslim families that fail to contribute adequately to the development of the Muslim community and the rest of North American society. Despite the severity of the problem, the Muslim community has largely closed its eyes and devoted very few resources to helping the victims and stopping the abusers. This is doubly unfortunate because family violence is one of America's most critical health problems (according to the American Medical Association and the U.S. Surgeon General), and Islamic leadership is needed to deal with this crisis; but Muslims are clearly in no moral position to lead society because they commit and tolerate abuse within their own community. http://www.ummah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50043 Quote
jdobbin Posted October 29, 2006 Report Posted October 29, 2006 This is doubly unfortunate because family violence is one of America's most critical health problems (according to the American Medical Association and the U.S. Surgeon General), and Islamic leadership is needed to deal with this crisis; but Muslims are clearly in no moral position to lead society because they commit and tolerate abuse within their own community. http://www.ummah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50043 What do you propose to do about the Muslims? Quote
Who's Doing What? Posted October 29, 2006 Report Posted October 29, 2006 This is doubly unfortunate because family violence is one of America's most critical health problems (according to the American Medical Association and the U.S. Surgeon General), and Islamic leadership is needed to deal with this crisis; but Muslims are clearly in no moral position to lead society because they commit and tolerate abuse within their own community. http://www.ummah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50043 What do you propose to do about the Muslims? Seeing as how it is the religion itself and the rules and laws which the followers are forced to abide by, which is the root and cause of all the violence and hate, there is really nothing you can do. ONLY MUSLIMS CAN SOLVE THE MUSLIM PROBLEM. They need to re-write their own religious texts to eliminate the violence and hate. Some of the stuff is so freaking retarded anyway, ol' Muhammad must have been going heavy on the Hashish when he created it. The penalty for leaving Islam is Death???? The penalty for infidelity is death?????? Basically the Muslim Male head of the household can kill anyone in his family with only minimum reason. This sh*t is whack! My neighbour works with an Iranian lady who went home to Iran with her mother for a vacation. While they were there a woman was being stoned to death in the street for supposedly sleeping with another man. But who really knows. Mabye she just laughed one night when he was too drunk to get it up. The sick part of the story is even though the lady's mother had been in Canada for many years, and seen freedom and womens equality and all the benifits of liberation, she actually picked up a stone and threw it at the accused woman. The daughter was quite shocked, but it just goes to show that you can take the person out of the bass-ackwards third-world country, but you can't take the bass-ackwards third-world country out of the person. Bottom line is, unless peacefull muslims rise up against radical muslims and put an end to the jihads, we, as in western society, are f**ked. Even if only 1 out of every 100,000 muslims is a radical, it still means there are more than enough in North America to cause massive terror. Quote Harper differed with his party on some key policy issues; in 1995, for example, he was one of only two Reform MPs to vote in favour of federal legislation requiring owners to register their guns. http://www.mapleleafweb.com/election/bio/harper.html "You've got to remember that west of Winnipeg the ridings the Liberals hold are dominated by people who are either recent Asian immigrants or recent migrants from eastern Canada: people who live in ghettoes and who are not integrated into western Canadian society." (Stephen Harper, Report Newsmagazine, January 22, 2001)
betsy Posted October 29, 2006 Author Report Posted October 29, 2006 They call it "faith based arbitration". If someone is more or less forced to accept being bound by "arbitration" it should be considered contrary to Canadian law and not enforced. I agree. But it seems this has been going on since 1991, and Christians and Jews have been using this same system...so why hasn't anyone complained about this before? I'm guessing not too many people were aware of it, but apart from that, there didn't seem to be the issue of forced compliance. IMO it was simply the first step towards expanding Sharia law, I doubt it would stop at arbitration issues. I wasn't aware it had been going on since 1991! I guess I read the said article and looked at it from a different angle....reading what was said as an outright defiance of the law. Quote
betsy Posted October 29, 2006 Author Report Posted October 29, 2006 This is doubly unfortunate because family violence is one of America's most critical health problems (according to the American Medical Association and the U.S. Surgeon General), and Islamic leadership is needed to deal with this crisis; but Muslims are clearly in no moral position to lead society because they commit and tolerate abuse within their own community. http://www.ummah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50043 What do you propose to do about the Muslims? With all the related violent incidents happening around the world....and other non-violent instances as well....where we see the efforts being exerted at cracking the western way of life....to be honest, I kinda share Leafless' attitude about them. Except that it troubles me to think an elected public official even considered integrating it to our legal system. It should've been a non-issue. Was it the protests that swayed McGuinty's decision to back away from it? This topic is sort of a "delayed reaction"....since this is actually old news. I am afraid this may not be the end of that. Seeing the way some of the Liberals leadership candidates handled themselves in the Israel-Lebanon war....the ease of which the NDP could think of negotiating with the Taliban....McGuinty entertaining the idea....and the chances that we might see another Liberal government in power.....anything could happen. In the name of appeasement. Anyway, I myself, have been asking several questions in this topic. My title itself, is a question though I forgot to put the question mark. Quote
betsy Posted October 29, 2006 Author Report Posted October 29, 2006 They call it "faith based arbitration". If someone is more or less forced to accept being bound by "arbitration" it should be considered contrary to Canadian law and not enforced. I agree. But it seems this has been going on since 1991, and Christians and Jews have been using this same system...so why hasn't anyone complained about this before? What exactly do you mean? Quote
scribblet Posted October 29, 2006 Report Posted October 29, 2006 This is doubly unfortunate because family violence is one of America's most critical health problems (according to the American Medical Association and the U.S. Surgeon General), and Islamic leadership is needed to deal with this crisis; but Muslims are clearly in no moral position to lead society because they commit and tolerate abuse within their own community. http://www.ummah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50043 What do you propose to do about the Muslims? The best we (western society) can do is insist that they follow our laws, and clamp down on the clerics who promote violence and hate. What I'm, not sure about is how many of the radicals there really are, and if they actually are on the fringe, or represent a larger group. e.g. The following are quotes from people who represent the Muslim establishment in the U.S. and are on record wishing America would be ruled by Islamic law and not the Constitution * The former head of the American Muslim Council -- supposedly the "most mainstream Muslim organization in America" -- exhorted Muslims to turn the U.S. into an Islamic nation ruled by Quranic law even if it takes "a hundred years," according to federal court records. * Popular New York imam Siraj Wahhaj told his flock in a taped sermon available at his mosque: "In time, this so-called democracy will crumble, and there will be nothing. And the only thing that will remain will be Islam." * Another so-called moderate cleric, Zaid Shakir, admitted in a recent interview with the New York Times: "I would like to see America become a Muslim country." What we should be doing is requiring all immigrants, to take some courses on our laws, tolerance and make it clear that there will never, ever be any form of Sharia law allowed here. I also believe that we have to stop giving in to requests for separation e.g. women not being able swim with men and separate swim tests etc. in secular public places. We need someone strong enough to speak out and be willing to take the flak and the usual accusations from the left. People who are willing to call a spade a spade and make it clear that we welcome all people, but will not tolerate any Sharia law, abuse of women or calls for the eradication of our way of life. Quote Hey Ho - Ontario Liberals Have to Go - Fight Wynne - save our province
jbg Posted October 29, 2006 Report Posted October 29, 2006 As a compassionate person, I don't want to see things end badly for the Muslims. I fear a horrific ending for them if they keep this up for any length of time. Horrible beyond imagination. So you suspect a pogrom. Or worse. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jdobbin Posted October 29, 2006 Report Posted October 29, 2006 Or worse. Would you stand up to a genocide or let it happen as the price of peace? Quote
jdobbin Posted October 29, 2006 Report Posted October 29, 2006 The best we (western society) can do is insist that they follow our laws, and clamp down on the clerics who promote violence and hate. What I'm, not sure about is how many of the radicals there really are, and if they actually are on the fringe, or represent a larger group. e.g. Most of the samples you gave came from the United States. Do you have examples where a large segment of Canada's Muslim population is being radicalized? Quote
jefferiah Posted October 29, 2006 Report Posted October 29, 2006 This is doubly unfortunate because family violence is one of America's most critical health problems (according to the American Medical Association and the U.S. Surgeon General), and Islamic leadership is needed to deal with this crisis; but Muslims are clearly in no moral position to lead society because they commit and tolerate abuse within their own community. http://www.ummah.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50043 What do you propose to do about the Muslims? Seeing as how it is the religion itself and the rules and laws which the followers are forced to abide by, which is the root and cause of all the violence and hate, there is really nothing you can do. ONLY MUSLIMS CAN SOLVE THE MUSLIM PROBLEM. They need to re-write their own religious texts to eliminate the violence and hate. Some of the stuff is so freaking retarded anyway, ol' Muhammad must have been going heavy on the Hashish when he created it. The penalty for leaving Islam is Death???? The penalty for infidelity is death?????? Basically the Muslim Male head of the household can kill anyone in his family with only minimum reason. This sh*t is whack! My neighbour works with an Iranian lady who went home to Iran with her mother for a vacation. While they were there a woman was being stoned to death in the street for supposedly sleeping with another man. But who really knows. Mabye she just laughed one night when he was too drunk to get it up. The sick part of the story is even though the lady's mother had been in Canada for many years, and seen freedom and womens equality and all the benifits of liberation, she actually picked up a stone and threw it at the accused woman. The daughter was quite shocked, but it just goes to show that you can take the person out of the bass-ackwards third-world country, but you can't take the bass-ackwards third-world country out of the person. Bottom line is, unless peacefull muslims rise up against radical muslims and put an end to the jihads, we, as in western society, are f**ked. Even if only 1 out of every 100,000 muslims is a radical, it still means there are more than enough in North America to cause massive terror. Hmm even though I think you have a good point about Muslims have to solve this problem. This is on an individual level, and it begins in the mentality of people. Still though I think that even though rewriting their own religious texts might solve the problem, I strongly disagree with this as a solution. I say leave the Koran as it is. What it says stands. I dont agree with it. I dont want people agreeing with Jihad. But I wont edit it. A Koran that is changed is no longer the Koran. And it shouldnt be hidden from people. Do I choose the Koran or not? Thats the choice that has to be made. I dont think we should be in the business of book revising. Pretty soon this could lead to book burning. Quote "Governing a great nation is like cooking a small fish - too much handling will spoil it." Lao Tzu
Argus Posted October 29, 2006 Report Posted October 29, 2006 Is this "faith-based mediation and dispute resolution," the dreaded Sharia Law? Why is it so "dreaded"? Depends. How much do you hate women? I don't hate women at all. You give a pretense of understanding so perhaps you can answer. Sharia law is barbarous in its punishments, as you well-know, and its treatment of women is equally barbarous and unacceptable in this day and age. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 29, 2006 Report Posted October 29, 2006 But we are not talking of terrorism, are we? You seem to equate the mere mention of the word, "Muslim"....to terrorism. No, I do not equate Muslim with terrorism, and to suggest such a thing is personally insulting to me. I only brought it up because it happened to be in the link that YOU provided, and because some people are STILL in denial that Muslims are condemning terrorism, despite all of the other links I have provided on other threads. Some Muslims condemn terrorism. Many other muslims support terrorism. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
Argus Posted October 29, 2006 Report Posted October 29, 2006 Huh? All of those are examples of cowardly, random attacks on innocent people. Hardly random. They were organized attacks on Christians and Jews by groups of Muslims who had dedicated their lives to killing Christians and Jews, and who enjoy considerable support in the Muslim world. I remind you that Osama Bin Laden, who was behind the WTC, is regarded as a hero by much of the Muslim world. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
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