Newfoundland's Conservative govt. angry with Ottawa...

[Rovik]

Federal Conservatives are potentially picking a war with the Newfoundland Conservative govt.

From VOCM web site: More Cuts to Federal programs

Premier Danny Williams says recent funding cuts by the federal government have left him concerned for a number of local programs. Williams told VOCM Backtalk with Bill Rowe he's especially worried about funding cuts to minority rights services.

And Harper and his Conservatives are favouring Quebec as they are moving a Federal office from Newfoundland to Quebec.

The Minister Responsible for the Status of Women says it's clear the federal government has no appreciation for the most vulnerable in society. Joan Burke is angry about a federal decision to close the Workplace Equity Office in the province and move the services to Montreal.

[geoffrey]

When do the Newfies not feel like they are getting the short end of the stick? I honestly can't think of a situation where they thanked Canada for our rentless support of their unemployment paradise.

When your provinces chief objective is to get government offices, it's a pretty pathetic reflection on your officals. I'd elect a government that attracts business offices and not government offices.

Alberta doesn't have many Federal offices, and we do ok. I'm sure Newfoundland can do without an equity office providing a couple of jobs and miles of red tape. A couple tax cuts and less socialist policies and you might even see someone come and develop your expansive oil and gas resources.

[M.Dancer]

Now on Rick Mercer last night, it seem that the law is different for Alberta and newfoundland....In alberta you find oil you have to develope qwithin 5 years....in newfoundland the law says you can hold onto it....the Newfoundland gov't wants this changed and harper is standing in the way.........

[Rovik]

When do the Newfies not feel like they are getting the short end of the stick? I honestly can't think of a situation where they thanked Canada for our rentless support of their unemployment paradise.

When your provinces chief objective is to get government offices, it's a pretty pathetic reflection on your officals. I'd elect a government that attracts business offices and not government offices.

Alberta doesn't have many Federal offices, and we do ok. I'm sure Newfoundland can do without an equity office providing a couple of jobs and miles of red tape. A couple tax cuts and less socialist policies and you might even see someone come and develop your expansive oil and gas resources.

It should be Canada thanking Newfoundland, because since Confederation, Canada has benefitted more from the relationship then Newfoundland has. I mentioned this is in more detail in another thread.

The province's chief objective is not to get government offices, it's to keep what it has, considering Newfoundland has lost a significant amount of federal jobs under Liberal rule (and now it seems, Conservative rule.) And it's about fairness; how are people in Montreal going to know the situation and circumstances of people with disabilities, visible minorities and aboriginal people in Newfoundland (and in fact all the Atlantic provinces.) Another example is the fact that most senior DFO officials are in Ottawa, not in Atlantic Canada or BC, where the marine resources are located. It doesn't make any sense.

Socialist is not a word on how I would describe the William's Newfoundland Conservative govt. In fact, since the Conservative govt. has come into power, business, espeically small business, has enjoyed tax breaks.

In regard to the oil industry; the provincial Conservative govt. is fighting for a fair deal from an industry who makes billions of dollars in profits. The oil companies want incentives that would heavily cut into the benefits that the province would receive. Newfoundland, in the past, has been involved with bad deals for short term benefits but long term detriment though hopefully no more.

What M.Dancer and Rick Mercer is refering to concerns "fallow fields." Basically, in Alberta, a company must develop any area it discovers within five years. The oil companies don't have these restrictions in Newfoundland and don't ever have to develop the area if they don't want to. Because of this, they have a distinct advantage in negotiations with the Newfoundland govt. Williams, and the Newfoundland govt. want to be able to have the same arragement as Alberta, as it is only fair. The problem is that Harper and his Conservative govt. doesn't support Newfoundland to get the same arragement as Alberta. Some in this province consider this favourtism toward Alberta and "Big Oil."

Here's the link to what Rick Mercer said: Rick Mercer Report

[blueblood]

I've said it once and I'll say it again, THAT is a leader, what the hell is he doing running Newfoundland, he should be running the country

[jbg]

When your provinces chief objective is to get government offices, it's a pretty pathetic reflection on your officals. I'd elect a government that attracts business offices and not government offices.

The office workers will miss some pretty good Newfie music. No singing of "Barrett's Privateers" in Quebec bars.

[B. Max]

Now on Rick Mercer last night, it seem that the law is different for Alberta and newfoundland....In alberta you find oil you have to develope qwithin 5 years....in newfoundland the law says you can hold onto it....the Newfoundland gov't wants this changed and harper is standing in the way.........

I suspect Alberta sets the rules for resource development since it is a provincial responsibility and has nothing to do with the feds.

[geoffrey]

Now on Rick Mercer last night, it seem that the law is different for Alberta and newfoundland....In alberta you find oil you have to develope qwithin 5 years....in newfoundland the law says you can hold onto it....the Newfoundland gov't wants this changed and harper is standing in the way.........

I suspect Alberta sets the rules for resource development since it is a provincial responsibility and has nothing to do with the feds.

Yup actually mineral leases are completely provincial jurisdiction. Poor Rock Dwellers (apparently I'm not allow to call them Newfies according to Rovic)... they even believe the BS their government feeds them blaming Ottawa for their state of affairs.

[jbg]

I suspect Alberta sets the rules for resource development since it is a provincial responsibility and has nothing to do with the feds.

Offshore drilling is an exception, I believe.

[Rovik]

Yup actually mineral leases are completely provincial jurisdiction. Poor Rock Dwellers (apparently I'm not allow to call them Newfies according to Rovic)... they even believe the BS their government feeds them blaming Ottawa for their state of affairs.

This is not BS. It seems that everything that you don't believe in or support is BS, though this is not surprising since you seem to be very bias, especially toward the oil companies.

Obviously you can call Newfoundlanders whatever you want (within the rules of the forum of course) and I nor anybody else can stop you, even though it may seem derogatory and disrespectful to some.

[geoffrey]

Yup actually mineral leases are completely provincial jurisdiction. Poor Rock Dwellers (apparently I'm not allow to call them Newfies according to Rovic)... they even believe the BS their government feeds them blaming Ottawa for their state of affairs.

This is not BS. It seems that everything that you don't believe in or support is BS, though is is not surprising since you seem to be very bias, especially toward the oil companies.

Obviously you can call Newfoundlanders whatever you want (within the rules of the forum of course) and I nor anybody else can stop you, even though it may seem derogatory and disrespectful to some.

What are you talking about? The bottom line is if Newfoundland has Alberta-like taxation and regulation you'd be economically sucessful.

Instead they cling to their EI and whatever to maintain their improverished situation. Personally I'm sick of supporting those that refuse to change. Newfoundland has the resources, and refuses to use them.

[Rovik]

I suspect Alberta sets the rules for resource development since it is a provincial responsibility and has nothing to do with the feds.

Offshore drilling is an exception, I believe.

Here is a better explanation and Newfoundland's rationale from Canada Free Press: Why are Newfoundlanders and Labradorians considered "Fed-bashers"

The other major issue the province is fighting is the lack of support in Ottawa for fallow field legislation. This type of legislation would allow the province to force oil companies to develop properties in a set time frame or they would lose their rights to them. It is similar to legislation already in place in provinces like Alberta. Think about it. A big oil company finds billions of barrels of oil and decides that because they're busy on other projects or because they are in no rush to develop it, they will simply sit on it for 20, 30 or even 50 years. Meanwhile the province has no ability to do anything to move the project forward. Apparently Ottawa sees no problem with this.

The problem the province has with it is the reality that if the oil were under the land, as it is in Alberta or Saskatchewan, fallow field legislation would not be an issue because the province would have total control. Since the oil and gas in these parts lies under the water it's a different story and Ottawa has to agree to the legislation. Fallow field legislation is nothing new. Other provinces have it in place already but with Ottawa standing in the way, it won't happen in Newfoundland and Labrador.

As I said, I don't see the current tensions between the premier and prime minister as "fed-bashing", not at all. What I and most people in the province see, is a premier who is simply trying to get Ottawa to live up to its obligations east of Quebec rather than the historical approach of most Canadian leaders which has been to continually side against the province on major issues of concern.

So as you can see, many Newfoundlanders see "fallow field legislation" as only fair and just and to deny Newfoundland the legislation is suspicious and questionable in the extreme.

[B. Max]

So as you can see, many Newfoundlanders see "fallow field legislation" as only fair and just and to deny Newfoundland the legislation is suspicious and questionable in the extreme.

I tend to agree, but if the feds own the resource why does the province think they have any say in it.

[geoffrey]

So as you can see, many Newfoundlanders see "fallow field legislation" as only fair and just and to deny Newfoundland the legislation is suspicious and questionable in the extreme.

Oh right, because Ottawa is screwing Newfoundland?

Do you have any idea how long it takes to design a rig, build a rig and implement drilling off-shore? The process is huge, expensive and time consuming. If you lost your rights after 5 years, there would be little point in trying (no room to delay because of economic conditions, ect.).

A 30 year implementation 'fallow field' situation might be responsible. Anything else would be damaging.

The answer to Newfoundlands inability to grow commerce and industry isn't more regulation.

[Rovik]

Instead they cling to their EI and whatever to maintain their improverished situation. Personally I'm sick of supporting those that refuse to change. Newfoundland has the resources, and refuses to use them.

Newfoundland has always had the resources but have seen companies take the resources and give very little in return. In additon, they also have had to contend with the Federal govt. badly mismanaging the resouces (such as the fishery.) Newfoundland, at long last is standing up for itself and saying "no more." With more of a hard line stance, perhaps Newfoundland will see revenues and benefits that have been flowing to mainland Canada stay here and because of that, more jobs and less people on EI.

[Rovik]

So as you can see, many Newfoundlanders see "fallow field legislation" as only fair and just and to deny Newfoundland the legislation is suspicious and questionable in the extreme.

I tend to agree, but if the feds own the resource why does the province think they have any say in it.

Williams has gone to Harper, saying to him it's the fair thing to do, which allow Newfoundland to be on a level playing field with Alberta

This is just one small example on how many say that Canada has benefitted much more than Newfoundland since 1949.

[geoffrey]

Instead they cling to their EI and whatever to maintain their improverished situation. Personally I'm sick of supporting those that refuse to change. Newfoundland has the resources, and refuses to use them.

Newfoundland has always had the resources but have seen companies take the resources and give very little in return. In additon, they also have had to contend with the Federal govt. badly mismanaging the resouces (such as the fishery.) Newfoundland, at long last is standing up for itself and saying "no more." With more of a hard line stance, perhaps Newfoundland will see revenues and benefits that have been flowing to mainland Canada stay here and because of that, more jobs and less people on EI.

You smack business around and they will leave. There is enough oil in this country that they don't have to go to Newfoundland to grow their business. Either match Alberta's personal and corporate tax structure, royalty rates, ect. or your going to fail. It's the nature of the market.

Saskatchewan is finally getting the hint, and cutting taxes. When will Newfoundland follow suit?

Your solution of 'getting what you deserve' and more regulations on production will only scare off oil companies. And that's why they haven't invested there. Why bother, Alberta is a much better place to throw your moola.

[Rovik]

So as you can see, many Newfoundlanders see "fallow field legislation" as only fair and just and to deny Newfoundland the legislation is suspicious and questionable in the extreme.

Oh right, because Ottawa is screwing Newfoundland?

Do you have any idea how long it takes to design a rig, build a rig and implement drilling off-shore? The process is huge, expensive and time consuming. If you lost your rights after 5 years, there would be little point in trying (no room to delay because of economic conditions, ect.).

A 30 year implementation 'fallow field' situation might be responsible. Anything else would be damaging.

The answer to Newfoundlands inability to grow commerce and industry isn't more regulation.

So you are basically saying that it is ok for the oil companies to basically hold the province at ransom until they get their way because otherwise they won't develop the fields for at least 30 years? And you think this is fair to Newfoundland?

[B. Max]

This is just one small example on how many say that Canada has benefitted much more than Newfoundland since 1949.

What they need to do is have the ownership of the resources transferred to Newfoundland. That the management would be provincial, but it still wouldn't guarantee the oil companies would do anything if they can't get a deal they can live with.

[Rovik]

This is just one small example on how many say that Canada has benefitted much more than Newfoundland since 1949.

What they need to do is have the ownership of the resources transferred to Newfoundland. That the management would be provincial, but it still wouldn't guarantee the oil companies would do anything if they can't get a deal they can live with.

Won't happen because the Federal govt. reaps a lot of money off the resources. Thye won't easily give that up.

[B. Max]

Won't happen because the Federal govt. reaps a lot of money off the resources. Thye won't easily give that up.

Well I thought they weren't being developed.

[Rovik]

You smack business around and they will leave. There is enough oil in this country that they don't have to go to Newfoundland to grow their business. Either match Alberta's personal and corporate tax structure, royalty rates, ect. or your going to fail. It's the nature of the market.

Saskatchewan is finally getting the hint, and cutting taxes. When will Newfoundland follow suit?

Your solution of 'getting what you deserve' and more regulations on production will only scare off oil companies. And that's why they haven't invested there. Why bother, Alberta is a much better place to throw your moola.

The oil companies are already making moolas of money off Hibernia and Terra Nova and they still will even if they give a favourable deal toward Newfoundland.

Not to long ago, Exxon-Mobil did claim low profits when they were in negotiations with the province over the Hebron field, though it came out after that this was not true and they were making a lot more money then they admitted.

Click link to read the whole story: Open your books, NL premier tells Exxon-Mobil

[Rovik]

Won't happen because the Federal govt. reaps a lot of money off the resources. Thye won't easily give that up.

Well I thought they weren't being developed.

The Hebron-Ben Nevis fields are not been developed because the NL govt. and the oil companies have broken off negotiations. The Hibernia and White Rose fields have been developed and are producing.

[jbg]

So you are basically saying that it is ok for the oil companies to basically hold the province at ransom until they get their way because otherwise they won't develop the fields for at least 30 years? And you think this is fair to Newfoundland?

And you're saying tha ta province should be able to force a business to make an investment?

[B. Max]

The Hebron-Ben Nevis fields are not been developed because the NL govt. and the oil companies have broken off negotiations. The Hibernia and White Rose fields have been developed and are producing.

So Newfoundland is trying to up the take after a deal was made.