Supporting Caledonians in their resistance of the Mohawk Warrior Socie

[Temagami Scourge]

SN is legally obligated to collect excise taxes from all non-reserve people who come onto the reserve to buy smokes. SN may tell them that they don't have to pay tax but that is nothing more than a sales technique since SN must still collect the tax. The fact that the SN tabacco company later submits a check to gov't does not mean this money comes from their earnings. Claiming that it does come from its earnings is an outright lie. A corporate executive who tried to report GST/excise taxes collected as earnings for a company would face jail time for fraud.

River...that is my point. Six Nations not charging tax is part and parcel of the sovreignty issue, which is why taxes are not collected on their product. On occasion, the RCMP will stop large vehicles leaving the reserve in an attempt to determine the purchaser, but all anyone says are that these large shipments are destined for sale on another First Nation.

That is why the government guesstimates their cut based on GRE's annual earnings...because they have no precise way of determining how much tax or excises they are missing out on. I'm sorry that you feel so badly about Native sovreignty, but the money comes from GRE's earnings.

Again, the bottom line is that one company on six Nations pays the Feds three times more than the entire reserve sees coming back from the Feds.

You can call the police if you want, but they already know what is occuring....remember, they have a Mountie permanently stationed at the plant. I should think that you should be grateful to six Nations for giving so much money to the Feds and receiving so little in return. Is that not what you've long advocated for?

[Riverwind]

That is why the government guesstimates their cut based on GRE's annual earnings...because they have no precise way of determining how much tax or excises they are missing out on. I'm sorry that you feel so badly about Native sovreignty, but the money comes from GRE's earnings.

The arrangement with the feds only exists because SN is wants to pretend that it does not have to collect tax from non-res people buying smokes. The details of this arrangement do not change the fact that SN is simply paying taxes on behalf of the cutomers that buy the smokes. If SN did not have to collect these taxes then they would not have had to make a deal with the feds.

Again, the bottom line is that one company on six Nations pays the Feds three times more than the entire reserve sees coming back from the Feds.

You can repeat that piece of propoganda as often as you like. I don't think anyone reading this thread will believe you anymore.

[Temagami Scourge]

River:

The details of this arrangement do not change the fact that SN is simply paying taxes on behalf of the cutomers that buy the smokes.

Exactly...and their using their own profits to accomplish this.

You can repeat that piece of propoganda as often as you like. I don't think anyone reading this thread will believe you anymore.

OK.

Again, the bottom line is that one company on Six Nations pays the Feds three times more than the entire reserve sees coming back from the Feds.

..and I do think that people will believe me and wonder if your train of thought left you standing on the platform.

[Riverwind]

The details of this arrangement do not change the fact that SN is simply paying taxes on behalf of the cutomers that buy the smokes.

Exactly...and their using their own profits to accomplish this.

SN tobacco company would still have to pay the taxes even if they had no profits because the excise taxes do not belong to them. They are simply monies collected from customers which must be handed over to the feds. This is basic acconting stuff - you are being deliberately obtuse.

[Who's Doing What?]

Scourge you are so f*cked in your reasoning it is laughable.

Go on keep it up until you and the rest of the First Immigrants lose all their special rights and freedoms. I will be laughing my ass off the day I see you and your First Immigrant relatives standing in line to purchase your fishing licenses. You people keep coming back to the trough wanting more and more. And for what? Because you are First Immigrants and think you deserve it?

Deserving something based on race is an outdated idea.

So is your battle for land long lost through trade and sale.

You can talk about your relatives who are doctors and lawyers and whatever, my question is what the f*ck are these supposed proud First Immigrants who want to protect their culture and whatever other bullshit you want to throw in there, doing working a "white-mans" job? Why did they bother with getting a "white-man's" education? Why didn't the doctor go into the bush and learn about, cedar, sweetgrass & tobacco instead of learning about, antibiotics, surgery, viruses, and other modern "white-man's" medicine?

You b*tch and moan about $40 million dollars being handed to your reserve. You honestly think you deserve more?

Bullsh*t!!!!

I'm sure there are thousands of small ethnic communities of similar population that would fall on their knees and thank the Govt. profusely for a gift of $40 million just once, never mind the fact you get that $40 million every single freaking year.

Maybe after First Immigrant peoples lose all their additional freedoms they currently enjoy, they will look back on the free money, education, healthcare and tax exempt status they were given as "The good ole days".

There is only a minimal difference between the First Immigrants actions and the actions of terrorists. I have no doubt that one of the more zealous "warriors" will someday cross that line. Nothing like gettting put on a "Known Terrorist Organization" watch list to help your cause.

[Temagami Scourge]

River:

is basic acconting stuff - you are being deliberately obtuse.

No I'm not. I completely understand what your saying, and I'm not disagreeing with the application of excise taxes in the mainstream....but the situation I'm referring to is not in the mainstream. The Feds went nuts not collecting anything from GRE, so they created a construct that does not apply to mainstream in order to get their cut.

I'll repeat it again, GRE gives to the Feds three times what the Feds give to the entire reserve in transfer payments.

However, on Canadian brand cigarettes, excise rules do apply on reserve, and the cartons must be counted and tracked...however, they are a tougher sell because they are twice the price of Sago's and Putters, so everyone buys the Native brands.

Hence, you are correct referring to Players, Rothmans and Export A, but wrong about Sagos, Putters and DK's.

Sorry.

[Riverwind]

No I'm not. I completely understand what your saying, and I'm not disagreeing with the application of excise taxes in the mainstream....but the situation I'm referring to is not in the mainstream. The Feds went nuts not collecting anything from GRE, so they created a construct that does not apply to mainstream in order to get their cut.

So why did GRE agree to give the feds their cut? Mostly likely it was because the feds had the power to shut GRE down if GRE did not agree to pay the taxes owed. The GRE could have agreed to follow the rules like everyone else and charge customers directly. However, GRE decided they wanted to pretend that SN was a tax free zone so they held out for a different deal. The feds agreed because it was easier than navigating the legal swamp surrounding First Nations tax status.

Bottom line: the structure of the deal between GRE and the feds does not change the fact that those monies are excise taxes collected from customers and they cannot be considered profits for the enterprise.

[Temagami Scourge]

Third Immigrant:

Wow...I certainly upset you! Golly...what you must think of me!

Scourge you are so f*cked in your reasoning it is laughable.

Then why aren't you laughing? You appear to be insanely upset with what I say. Why not have a beer, or ten.

Go on keep it up until you and the rest of the First Immigrants lose all their special rights and freedoms.

Certainly, if you insist. Ironically, I've been hearing that alot lately on this thread, but I'm game.

I will be laughing my ass off the day I see you and your First Immigrant relatives standing in line to purchase your fishing licenses.

Yes, from the First Nation that controls that particular resource.

You people keep coming back to the trough wanting more and more.

funny you should mention that. Do you know that one company on Six Nations pays the Feds over $140 million in taxes while the Feds transfer just under forty million to the entire reserve! Man...that should keep you swimming in welfare, eh Third Immigrant? To add to that point, you should have see all the Cauco-Canadians in Caledonia tripping over themselves to grab taxpayer's money after telling the Province that the 15 or so "native Terrorists" on Douglas Creek are "oppressing" them.

My God....it looked like starving Ethiopians in the food line! I couldn't believe the shamelessness of it all. you should really talk to them and ask them to stop embarrassing you.

And for what? Because you are First Immigrants and think you deserve it?

Well, since we greeted your ancestors here, i'd have to say that we owned everything, and traded it for a reasonable price.

Of course, in your desire to get something for nothing, you want to abrogate our deal...but then again, your people have been looking for the cheap and easy way as a matter of principle. Look at Walkerton...your people died because of the patronage rampant in that municipality...so as a result, undertrained people lied about the e.Coli counts.

My advice to you is that it doesn't pay to cut corners. Do the job right the first time.

Deserving something based on race is an outdated idea.

Yes it probably is, but deserving something for being here since time immemorial isn't....and that would be true if our skin was purple.

So is your battle for land long lost through trade and sale.

Apparently not in Caledonia.

jeepers...apparently not in a bunch of places.

You can talk about your relatives who are doctors and lawyers and whatever, my question is what the f*ck are these supposed proud First Immigrants who want to protect their culture and whatever other bullshit you want to throw in there, doing working a "white-mans" job?

Third Immigrant...guess what...you are a filthy racist! I knew it! "White men's jobs, eh? So what about other people of colour in this country? Are they "honourary" whites for doing "White men's jobs? What about women? Do you get upset with them doing "White Men's jobs"?

Heck...I'll make that your Indian name: White men's jobs

Why did they bother with getting a "white-man's" education?

Oh...this is too sweet. I really, really get under your disgusting, vile, decrepit, in-bred racist skin don't I?

Look...I won't comment on your mom and your uncle -oops, let's call him Dad- but please tell me how these job's are the sole property of white people, please? Would you include child-rape, serial killing and mass murder as white men's jobs too, seeing as how white folk seem to be pre-eminent in those acts according to profilers?

Come on....if you want to take credit for everything, then take credit for everything you vile, racist scum.

Why didn't the doctor go into the bush and learn about, cedar, sweetgrass & tobacco instead of learning about, antibiotics, surgery, viruses, and other modern "white-man's" medicine?

hunh? Doctors are doin that now? Why can't they do both? Are whites just naturally better than us non-whites?

You b*tch and moan about $40 million dollars being handed to your reserve. You honestly think you deserve more?

Considering that one company on the reserve gives the Feds three times as much money, i'd say so.

Bullsh*t!!!!

Bless you.

I'm sure there are thousands of small ethnic communities of similar population that would fall on their knees and thank the Govt. profusely for a gift of $40 million just once, never mind the fact you get that $40 million every single freaking year.

Yes, but we are talking about Canada, not Romanian or Rwanda.

Maybe after First Immigrant peoples lose all their additional freedoms they currently enjoy, they will look back on the free money, education, healthcare and tax exempt status they were given as "The good ole days".

Yes...must be a nice dream, but too bad it doesn't match reality. If your so gung-ho, then demand that the army attack the Indians.

Of course, I'm sure you'll hide, but is that really surprising. Just don't touch your sister.

There is only a minimal difference between the First Immigrants actions and the actions of terrorists.

Yes...at Caledonia three weekends ago, the Natives stood their ground and offered food and drink to everyone celebrating our potluck. The terrorists marched less than a kilometre before melting away.

I have no doubt that one of the more zealous "warriors" will someday cross that line. Nothing like gettting put on a "Known Terrorist Organization" watch list to help your cause.

Well...i'll try to settle your people down, but it's darn hard to reason with drunken in-breds....your boyfriend should know that just from being with you, you filthy, disgusting racist swine.

have a nice day.

[Temagami Scourge]

No I'm not. I completely understand what your saying, and I'm not disagreeing with the application of excise taxes in the mainstream....but the situation I'm referring to is not in the mainstream. The Feds went nuts not collecting anything from GRE, so they created a construct that does not apply to mainstream in order to get their cut.

So why did GRE agree to give the feds their cut? Mostly likely it was because the feds had the power to shut GRE down if GRE did not agree to pay the taxes owed. The GRE could have agreed to follow the rules like everyone else and charge customers directly. However, GRE decided they wanted to pretend that SN was a tax free zone so they held out for a different deal. The feds agreed because it was easier than navigating the legal swamp surrounding First Nations tax status.

Bottom line: the structure of the deal between GRE and the feds does not change the fact that those monies are excise taxes collected from customers and they cannot be considered profits for the enterprise.

Sweet jumping Jesus, River...

did you not read this post of mine from yesterday:

Yesterday, 06:36 PM Post #42

The Big Leagues

Group: Members

Posts: 375

Joined: 1-May 06

Member No.: 1724

The other salient point River, is that GRE does not charge tax on their cartons of cigarettes, which is why there are so mant smokeshops on the rez. The RCMP knew that non-natives were coming to the rez to buy cartons by the van full, so they "guesstimated" the amount of money changing hands on Six Nations, and threatened to use the Mounties to close down the plant unless the government received a portion of GRE's annual income to represent "lost" taxes due to all the non-Natives buying cigarettes there.

[Who's Doing What?]

Nice joke calling me the racist, when it is you who thinks he is entitled to something because of his race.

Why don't you get a job and hire some of your unemployed relatives to help drag your communities out of poverty.

Instead you would rather ruin other peoples lives and put other people out of work while you do some stupid terrorist activity you call a protest. You talk about $40 million not being enough, I hear this terrorist occupation of Caledonia has already cost the Ontario govt. $25 million. How about they take that money out what your reserve is supposed to get? How much more land would you occupy then? You are nothing more than a hog that has been fattened at the Govt's teat for decades, and can find no way to satisfy the greed that has been born out of some idiotic perception that you are owed something.

You seem to take pleasure pissing people off. Good. Keep it up, because we need this whole country to get pissed off. Keep pissing Canadians off. The faster you do, the quicker you will be dealt with.

You seem to like the term "white-man's". Well you should, I heard it from a drunk First Immigrant racist. Infact I heard it so many times in one weekend, I got to like it. It is a First Immigrants term for anything non-First Immigrant. "White-man's" schools, "white-mans" laws, "white-mans" govt. Well enjoy your "white-man's" house, and your "white-mans" computer, and your "white-mans" clothes. You b*tch and moan about your lost culture and yet embrace almost everything the "white-man" has to offer. I don't see First Immigrants hunting with 300yr old First Immigrant technology. Or living in 300yr old First Immigrant housing. So until you go back to your tipi's, long houses and stone tipped spears why don't you just quietly go away and be happy you've got what you have. Contrary to what you seem to believe it can be taken away.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

What is the name of this company that exists on an Indian reserve and pays 140 million dollars a year in taxes to the government?

[Chuck U. Farlie]

I'm curious Scourge...

If FN are sovereign, then why do they pay this 'tax' at all? In fact, why do they allow a RCMP officer on their land to monitor their business? I can't understand why a sovereign nation would allow the Canadian Feds to do such things... are you a bunch of push-overs?

[Riverwind]

If FN are sovereign, then why do they pay this 'tax' at all? In fact, why do they allow a RCMP officer on their land to monitor their business? I can't understand why a sovereign nation would allow the Canadian Feds to do such things... are you a bunch of push-overs?

I was looking into the GRE (Grand River Enterprises) company and found this:

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/49666.pdf

Grand River Enterprises Six Nations, Ltd. (“Grand River”) is a Canadian

corporation organized under the laws of Canada on April 29, 1996.1 Grand River

has at all relevant times since its incorporation maintained a principal office and

tobacco products production facility located on the Grand River Reserve, in

Ohsweken, Ontario, Canada.

native Canadians and their families, in addition to numerous other nonnative

Canadian individuals in its employ. It is the largest employer on the Grand

River reserve, and one of the largest native employers in Canada.

Looks like SN is more than willing to acknowledge Canadian sovereignty over their lands when it suits them...

[bradco]

"In essence, you are arguing that Canada has every right to act in the same manner as China, Iraq and Iran.Hummmm? Nice thought process. Where do I sign up for my Communist Party card."

Such a dishonest comment. Since you have no understanding of how China deals with dissenters you will just have to trust me that Canada is a lot nicer and acts in no manner the same as China. If Canada was like China natives wouldnt get any benefits let alone preferential treatment

"Be happy...at least China and Turkey support your ideals."

You misinterpret my ideals purposely. I argue that the government of Canada ought to negotiate because it is right but the instant the native demands become extravigant, along with their refusal to thank or even admit the extra benefits they receive then its over. Negotiation is a two way street whereas you want it to be a buffet for the natives to take as they please.

"you're right...silly me. I better tell the five doctors, two pilots and a couple of federal directors and one Deputy Minister who are my cousins that they should better mirror your experince."

Either you are stupid and cant understand anything anyone writes or you purposely misinterpret it. Either way your dishonest in your replies. I specifically say not all and say and make reference to the statistical fact that the native population has a higher unemployment rate in this country. Since you cant, or refuse to understand what this means Ill try to explain it to you. It doesnt mean there arent very successful, hardworking and intelligent natives because there clearly are. It just means on average, a native person is more likely to be unemployed.

"I don't need to, you pretty much put your views in print, and I can read you like a book, which is why i'm having such a good (and incredibly easy) time countering your "points"."

Not incredibly hard when you misinterpret and manipulate them to mean something that they dont (see above). Try commenting honestly for a change, your only proving yourself to be ridiculous.

"I once had the pleasure of watching a row of drunken cauco-Canadians pissing off a houseboat directly into the Lake I drink from. I also recall happening on a Cauco-canadian in a houseboat who asked me where the fish were at, because he wanted to set a net off the boat and hide it from the MNR. I once saw they Police Chief of North Bay come onto the Nippissing reserve to buy fresh fish from the Natives for a fish fry, and then turn around and complain about Native fish harvesting."

One clear difference is my example was a government sanctioned and highly publicized event with a large amount of media coverage. There is a difference using an example like that and using examples of a bunch of idiots in their private time. There is a difference in some redneck breaking fishing laws and the government sanctioning natives to fish in an environmentally irresponsible way (those fish should have been allowed to spawn to replenish fish stocks for everyones economic benefit)

"Clearly, the problem lies with Cauco-Canadian double standards more than anything else. What I find most amusing, though, is how you say Natives should work, and then criticize them for having a fishing business. A tad contrary, aren't we?"

The issue is special privledges to native fisheries not the businesses themselves. I would never argue against their businesses, only for the same rules for everyone. Just another example of you making things up.

Natives are clearly given special fishing rights so Id ask why they feel like they cant compete in a fair environment. Of course your going to interpret this as arguing that natives should not have fishing businesses cause your dishonest.

"no less than a few sentences before you were complaining about the native fishery, and now you are wondering why they can't compete?"

I was complaining about their special privledges and environmentally irreresponsible practises. A group that requires special privledges either cant, or refuses to compete. Probably refuses competition because they prefer the extra economic benefits.

"come on now....get your thoughts straight...Having been to B.C., I know how much the non-native fishers revile the Native fishery, so how come you don't seem to have a clue that this is occuring?"

And I live in BC so I know too. Most complaints come from the unequal treatment of native and non-native fisheries. Not that that excuses their actions but behaving legally, I would imagine, is tough when your way of making a living and feeding your family is taken away while another group still demands and receives extra benefits.

"Yeah, but I bet you look like the priests and reverends, and probably look like Pickton, Bernardo and Mayerthorpe Rozsko than I do."

And you look more like that poor native homeless man I flipped some change to on my way home than I do. And yes I know thats an absolutly ridiculous comment. I only use it to illustrate how dumb what you said is. But hey its typical of the rest of your post as well.

"however, the rest of Canada happened to be enjoying a wonderful potluck on the reclamation site."

All 30 million people that make up the rest of Canada? I love how you criticize me for speaking for the rest of Canada and then claim you do on the grounds that a few hundred odd people came to your dinner. Either way I stand by my argument that as natives continue to ask for more extravigant demands and make threats such as booting people out of their houses (as you have said) then Canadian public opinion will turn. Thats a pretty rational hypothesis. One that you have interpreted dishonestly to mean that I am somehow against natives.

"A plethora of what you'd call "hyphenated-Canadians""

Yes cause I would call people hyphenated Canadians where exactly. You have now gone from misinterpreting to just blatantly making things up. Congratulations on becoming even more dishonest in your postings. The only person here that keeps referring to hyphenated Canadians is you.

"when it was made quite clear to me that most of Canada sided with the Natives that day...by actually showing up."

Again I stress that day they did. The point I have argued is not that there isnt support for natives. In fact I have argued the exact opposite...that Canadians do support natives. I only said that public opinion will change as native demands increase and natives come across as you do in this thread, talking about "evicting" people.

"Maybe you should demand better border security, or find support for your cause among people of color."

What exactly is my cause? You mean working with natives in a peaceful and fair negotiation process where both sides recognize the other and the increase in natives standard of living? Here you just flat out assume where I stand on the issue, an assumption that comes from your dishonest interpretation of what I say. In fact my saying that will be twisted by you somehow as well. I see little reason to continue this conversation cause you clearly have no intention of discussing anything in an honest manner.

""benevolence", which means out of the goodness of one's heart, and then go on to explain the actual legalities of the situation."

benevolence: an act intending or showing kindness and good will, an inclination to do kind or charitable acts, disposition to do good

The benevolence is choosing to honour the legal arguments of the natives when not necessary. That is, Canada has legal rights as well and we could, being the more powerful group, ignore native legal rights in favour of Canadian legal rights to the land. The benevolence is the desire to see the native population succeed....a desire that has gone so far that we extend extra benefits to native individuals that do not exist for other individuals in our society.

"please...can you tell me what the name of the war was that determined the take over of the land? Here I thought I knew my history, but you present a version that I'm not familiar with...enlighten me"

I thought I already explained that there doesnt need to be a war. Think about it. Canada exists and has title over all land in the area which is now considered as Canadian soil and occupied as such. Yes there are aborignal land claims and title but the government could easily choose to ignore them, give them out and take them back etc. It is basically a realist interpretation of the issue that completely eludes you. That is how I am defining "taking over the land".

[bradco]

River:

do you have numbers to show that total sales and income taxes paid by all other businesses and people on reserve?

Nope. I only know about the money GRE gives to the Feds, and the money the Feds transfers to Six Nations...regardless, whatever the amount is, it will only increase the $140 million GRE gives to the Government of Canada....which will still work out to three times more than what the rez receives from Federal transfer payments.

The bottom line is that Six Nations is putting at least three times more money into the Federal government's general ledger than what they get back from the same account.

In simple terms, Six Nations is suffering from a fiscal gap...just like Ontario.

Terrible, really.

That certainly knocks the props from under the argument that Natives are government freeloaders, when clearly all of Canada enjoys the contributions Six Nation's makes....

Shocking is your complete lack of understanding that some money must go to fund bureacracy and departments that are necessary to run a country. The government doesnt transfer every dime it gets back to people. There are other expenditures such as debt payments that they have to deal with. Try factoring those in. Then again you will argue that the natives shouldnt have to pay for any of that, even though they receive benefits from it. What is your definition of freeloader?

[NativeCharm]

It's so delightful to see you boys playing nice!

Good Golly...are we again pretending "Caledonia" is the issue again, rather than just admitting that is clearly about racism. CLEARLY. Oh yes, we can call it something else, paint it a different colour, reinvent its history, but it still stinks like shit.

Nothing like some ' trytobe kkk' wankers to muck a up a good discussion. Norm for this forum, hey fellers?

Carry on.

YAYA..let's play the "Caledonia game", I'll be Native, you be white and you can try to find new ways to hate or bring me down..ready? set. GO!

[bradco]

It's so delightful to see you boys playing nice!

Good Golly...are we again pretending "Caledonia" is the issue again, rather than just admitting that is clearly about racism. CLEARLY. Oh yes, we can call it something else, paint it a different colour, reinvent its history, but it still stinks like shit.

Nothing like some ' trytobe kkk' wankers to muck a up a good discussion. Norm for this forum, hey fellers?

Carry on.

YAYA..let's play the "Caledonia game", I'll be Native, you be white and you can try to find new ways to hate or bring me down..ready? set. GO!

I love how when anyone ever tries to discuss a minority group someone always plays the race card. In fact my posts have argued against racist preferential policies. Accusing others of racism when they have made no such comments is dishonest and used far to often as a diversion method. If one does feel the need to accuse another of racism they better damn well be specific and have proof instead of making blanket accusations against all people participating in a thread. Your post has the effect of lessoning the seriousness of racism.

[Temagami Scourge]

White men's jobs:

Nice joke calling me the racist, when it is you who thinks he is entitled to something because of his race.

It's no joke. you clearly said that my relations were doing "white men's jobs", which tells anyone with half a brain that professorships, mechanics, pilots or any other work belong's to "white men'.

Hence, you are a vile, pathetic, disgusting racist.

That ain't no joke, bro. I'm not laughing you freak of nature.

Why don't you get a job and hire some of your unemployed relatives to help drag your communities out of poverty.

I can't...because all those jobs are reserved for white men, as per your desire.

Instead you would rather ruin other peoples lives and put other people out of work while you do some stupid terrorist activity you call a protest.

Hey...the natives weren't the one's who brought the Race holy War crowd to their protest in caledonia. That was the "Canadian" contingent. However, I can't help it if hundreds of people scream about being oppressed by 15 or so people living in a muddy field. I call it overreaction, but that's the kind of thing you get when you aren't eligible for "white men's jobs".

You talk about $40 million not being enough, I hear this terrorist occupation of Caledonia has already cost the Ontario govt. $25 million.

Ok...How about the $140 million GRE pays to the Feds as being too much. Plus, if the government did bother to sell land that had an active land claim on it for the past 30 years, then they wouldn't of had to pay so much. Had the Crown bothered to sit down and actually solve the issues involving the Haldimand tract, then this would not have hapened in the first place, you disgusting racist trash.

How about they take that money out what your reserve is supposed to get?

Go ahead...they already hand out over $140 million to the Crown each year. In return, why aren't some of the drunken Cauco-canadians charged for coming onto the property and harrassing the protestors. That happens every other night now that it's colder (Apparently, the Cauco-canadians prefer drinking nightly during the warm months), you disgusting in-breed.

How much more land would you occupy then?

Whatever land hasn't been surrendered and purchased properly, which affects a considerable area within the Haldimand tract. But I'm sure it will be phased over time. It's only when someone tries to build or alter land that is under claim do the warnings start, you retarded racist meat puppet.

You are nothing more than a hog that has been fattened at the Govt's teat for decades, and can find no way to satisfy the greed that has been born out of some idiotic perception that you are owed something.

Funny, you appear to suck from the same teats. I guess the only difference is that it takes Natives decades before anything is done, but the Cauco-Canadians in Caledonia only needed to whine a hundred days before the province showered them with money. Oh yeah...I found out from some Caledonians that the free money even went out to people who aren't even close to DCE, and that people next to DCE didn't get a dime, while the neighbours across town took the Crown's cash. Even that the Crown couldn't get right...and you are trying to tell me that the "white mans' system" is superior, you filthy, mentally-challenged bigot.

You seem to take pleasure pissing people off. Good. Keep it up, because we need this whole country to get pissed off. Keep pissing Canadians off. The faster you do, the quicker you will be dealt with.

No...I take pleasure pissing off vile racist scum like you. If anyone else gets pissed, then that's because of their own hang-ups, you perverse ethnocentrist.

You seem to like the term "white-man's". Well you should, I heard it from a drunk First Immigrant racist. Infact I heard it so many times in one weekend, I got to like it. It is a First Immigrants term for anything non-First Immigrant.

I think the name "white men's jobs" defines you quite wonderfully. Additionally, I also remember the Cauco-Canadians calling me a "wagon-burner", a "timber nigger", and the usual slew of rants involving umemployment and taxes, so I know you are in good company you pathetic waste of skin.

"

White-man's" schools, "white-mans" laws, "white-mans" govt. Well enjoy your "white-man's" house, and your "white-mans" computer, and your "white-mans" clothes.

Can you prove to me that any of these things were created by white men? Jamaicans built my house...in fact, all the houses in the subdivision. Does that mean they aren't as good as a "white man's house".

Besides, the bottom line is that all our homes are built on land the Natives exchanged for treaty rights and benefits, so I'd say things are square, you vomitous, racist slug.

You b*tch and moan about your lost culture and yet embrace almost everything the "white-man" has to offer.

Including rape, serial killing and mass murder. No...you can have those things. I'll keep the computer, you disgusting racist vermin.

I don't see First Immigrants hunting with 300yr old First Immigrant technology. Or living in 300yr old First Immigrant housing. So until you go back to your tipi's, long houses and stone tipped spears why don't you just quietly go away and be happy you've got what you have. Contrary to what you seem to believe it can be taken away.

Gladly, as long as you keep paying your rent for Canada you wretched, decrepit racist moron.

[Temagami Scourge]

What is the name of this company that exists on an Indian reserve and pays 140 million dollars a year in taxes to the government?

Jerry: It's Grand River Enterprises. There is a recent Macleans article on them too.

[scribblet]

I love how when anyone ever tries to discuss a minority group someone always plays the race card. In fact my posts have argued against racist preferential policies. Accusing others of racism when they have made no such comments is dishonest and used far to often as a diversion method. If one does feel the need to accuse another of racism they better damn well be specific and have proof instead of making blanket accusations against all people participating in a thread. Your post has the effect of lessoning the seriousness of racism.

Apparantly the notion of ALL people being equal or heaven forbid, all people should abide by the rule of law is now racist - a card which just about always trumps all.

[Who's Doing What?]

River:

do you have numbers to show that total sales and income taxes paid by all other businesses and people on reserve?

Nope. I only know about the money GRE gives to the Feds, and the money the Feds transfers to Six Nations...regardless, whatever the amount is, it will only increase the $140 million GRE gives to the Government of Canada....which will still work out to three times more than what the rez receives from Federal transfer payments.

The bottom line is that Six Nations is putting at least three times more money into the Federal government's general ledger than what they get back from the same account.

In simple terms, Six Nations is suffering from a fiscal gap...just like Ontario.

Terrible, really.

That certainly knocks the props from under the argument that Natives are government freeloaders, when clearly all of Canada enjoys the contributions Six Nation's makes....

Shocking is your complete lack of understanding that some money must go to fund bureacracy and departments that are necessary to run a country. The government doesnt transfer every dime it gets back to people. There are other expenditures such as debt payments that they have to deal with. Try factoring those in. Then again you will argue that the natives shouldnt have to pay for any of that, even though they receive benefits from it. What is your definition of freeloader?

The only racists here are the First Immigrants who feel they deserve something beause of their race. For the most part everyone else thinks everyone should be equal. Nice try though.

[Temagami Scourge]

I'm curious Scourge...

If FN are sovereign, then why do they pay this 'tax' at all? In fact, why do they allow a RCMP officer on their land to monitor their business? I can't understand why a sovereign nation would allow the Canadian Feds to do such things... are you a bunch of push-overs?

Chuck:

Simply put, the government does not want us to be sovereign. That’s why there is a constant struggle. GRE, like other Canadian businesses, has to incorporate under Canada’s laws to conduct business, otherwise, the Authorities would be in there with guns drawn.

As for being pushovers, we don’t have much choice with guns pointed at us, but at least we aren’t pointing guns back, we’re trying to work through the system (which presents its own set of obstacles.)

Why do you always want us to fight?

[Temagami Scourge]

If FN are sovereign, then why do they pay this 'tax' at all? In fact, why do they allow a RCMP officer on their land to monitor their business? I can't understand why a sovereign nation would allow the Canadian Feds to do such things... are you a bunch of push-overs?

I was looking into the GRE (Grand River Enterprises) company and found this:

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/49666.pdf

Grand River Enterprises Six Nations, Ltd. (“Grand River”) is a Canadian

corporation organized under the laws of Canada on April 29, 1996.1 Grand River

has at all relevant times since its incorporation maintained a principal office and

tobacco products production facility located on the Grand River Reserve, in

Ohsweken, Ontario, Canada.

native Canadians and their families, in addition to numerous other nonnative

Canadian individuals in its employ. It is the largest employer on the Grand

River reserve, and one of the largest native employers in Canada.

Looks like SN is more than willing to acknowledge Canadian sovereignty over their lands when it suits them...

River:

No it doesn’t. We are left with no choice. It doesn’t mean we aren’t trying to assert our sovereignty. The main problem is that that idea seems to annoy you.

[Temagami Scourge]

Brad (1):

Such a dishonest comment. Since you have no understanding of how China deals with dissenters you will just have to trust me that Canada is a lot nicer and acts in no manner the same as China. If Canada was like China natives wouldnt get any benefits let alone preferential treatment

Lad,I do know how how China deals with dissenters, and from what you visualize, you aren’t too far off in your views. Besides, creating policies that allowed for Native children to be raped for decades at residential schools, and then purposefully taking them away and scattering them across north America in adoptive homes doesn’t give me the impression that Canada is nicer.

It's nice from your perspective because you nor your ancestors didn’t have to live through that era.

You misinterpret my ideals purposely. I argue that the government of Canada ought to negotiate because it is right but the instant the native demands become extravigant, along with their refusal to thank or even admit the extra benefits they receive then its over. Negotiation is a two way street whereas you want it to be a buffet for the natives to take as they please.

Negotiations is a nice sentiment,which is exactly what was supposed to be occurring over the DCE property before it was unilaterally sold by the government for development. I'd say the Crown certainly didn't hold up it's end now, did they.

On the other hand, who am I to thank for all my family members raped by priests and reverends at residential school? You, or the government' I mean, you elect the government, don't you? Does that not make you partially responsible for enabling child sexual abuse to occur?

Either you are stupid and cant understand anything anyone writes or you purposely misinterpret it. Either way your dishonest in your replies. I specifically say not all and say and make reference to the statistical fact that the native population has a higher unemployment rate in this country. Since you cant, or refuse to understand what this means Ill try to explain it to you. It doesnt mean there arent very successful, hardworking and intelligent natives because there clearly are. It just means on average, a native person is more likely to be unemployed.

No, you only imply it. Give me a break. Why don't you speak of Native successes? Where are those posts Mr. "Oh-I-care-about-Natives-my-heart-bleeds-for-them." Besides, I clearly explained that your country has not lived up to its treaty obligations, and the policies and laws they set (without Native input, btw) have put my people in a hole that yours never had to deal with.

Can I pass you clearer rose-coloured glasses?

Not incredibly hard when you misinterpret and manipulate them to mean something that they dont (see above). Try commenting honestly for a change, your only proving yourself to be ridiculous.

Oh, I see. I disagree with you, ergo, I'm ridiculous.

Good argument. Obviously well-thought out and based on a depth of knowledge and experience. I’m sure Canada is proud of your thought process. Have another beer.

[Chuck U. Farlie]

I'm still waiting to hear why a sovereign nation would bother to pay the Canadian government 'tax' on the cigarettes they produce and sell and why they would consent to allow a Canadian police officer to monitor their business...

If you are sovereign, like you claim, then why are you being push-overs to the Canadian Government.... come on guys, stand up for yourselves.