Orhan Pamuk Strikes Again

[Hasan Ali Tokuqin]

Orhan Pamuk Strikes Again

Orhan Pamuk took the Nobel Prize

and hefty monetary award

as a Turk I am very elated

This is a great honor for Turkey etc etc.

This was a political set-up

This Nobel prize given Orhan Pamuk

This is first and last Nobel prize given

a Turkish citizen.It will never happen again.

Orhan Pamuk is a scam bag

a bank attorney's idle son who ended up in fiction

after dabbling in drawing and architecture.

His family ushered their fortune

from state banks

to make rail way transactions

at the nascent years of the Republic Of Turkey.

He went American Robert Academy

a elite high school in Istanbul

which produced many head aches for our nation

like two political disasters

ex prime ministers, Bulent Ecevit and Tansu Ciller.

He leisured a long time in New York City-his spirtiual home

in his late twenties

and produce ambitious works like:

The Silent House,

Mr Cevdet And His Sons,

The Black Book

The White Castle.

Now he lives there and teaches at Coloumbia.

He became a ghost in Turkey.

I think he only thinks his career ambitions

not his plight for any noble cause.

If he likes Kurdish people so much

he can bestow the monetray award to me

I am a poor Kurdish guy my self.

Like his bleak novels

he is a dark shadow

hanging over on our literary landscape

his rich and powerful, he is untouchable

even Turkish jurisdiction aquittied him unguilty

at the first setting.

He is a literary mob.

The pro-westren media band-wagons him zealotly

The number of books sales are convulted and inflated

The back covers are filled of praises

By such and such people to boost his image

Every novel garnerd the top prizes

Translated into foreign languages.

I think guys in Nobel Academy made a grave mistake

on timing.They should wait for a decade at least.

Now people say:

-Aha you see! He insulted Turkish identity

and they awarded him with Nobel prize.

Although he has a correction and editting team

all his books are full of lingustic errors.

He takes themes from qabbalistic tradition

from his Jewish background

make frequent quotes from Holy Quran

peppered with esoteric taste.

He considers himself

and try to make others to think

an artful mediator on East and West

par excellence with Umberto Ecco.

He is English is better than his Turkish

I read his articles in New Yorker magazine

He could write his novels in English

But for Noble prize he wrote them in Turkish.

I won't be suprized

if his next book will be in English

Maybe he will be a contender for Pulitzer prize too.

Once he said:

- My novels are very hard.They are not Danilee Steel

novels.You must be very smart and sophisticated to understand

them.You must unearth the hidden gem in them.

I went his speech about Daily Usage Of Turkish

he was like a retarded clown

audinece mocked him.

He has the symptoms

of all the Turkish intellectuals

seeing inferior of their own folk.

Aziz Nesin for example:

- %60 percent of Turks are dumb.

A word from Ahmed Althan:

-Turkish males are hairy vulgar apes, smelling

sweat and kebap.

In his novel 'The Black Book'

there is a short story called

'The childeren of Master Bedii'

His Turkish stereo types are disfigured

and inferior creatures.

Turks are like beggars, hoi polloi waiting at the gates of Europe

to get into the golden land, the Eldarado.

Some people my ask

why is that personal fuss?

isit a vendeta, an unsettled account

a deeply felt class resentment?

what is this all about mr Hasan?

why are you bothering your self?

what is the matter with you?

All I can say:

- I don't know.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is my first thread on Orhan Pamuk:

I don't like Orhan Pamuk and his novels.He doesen't know anything about Turkey as a naive westrener.He thinks that Europe is golden land for Turks and Turks don't fit into it.He is too polemical than as a author.Like Salman Rushdie who insulted Holy Quran in his Satanic Verses, he looks for fame and prestije.

Westren circles like him, because he went American Robert Academy in Istanbul.This academy- always been a head ache for Turkey- produced political nightmares like Bulent Ecevit and Tansu Ciller.The Academy produced Pro -Westren columinsts, translators, scholars, scientists, politicians and all of them were harmfull for Turkey.I think this academy must be abolished.It hurts our nation deeply.

The most significant support to him came from Salman Rushdie, his spiritual counterpart who wrote an article on 14 October 2005 for The Times.

I want to point some similarities of Orhan Pamuk and Salman Rushdie here:

Both belongs a wealthy family.

Both went English speaking missionary schools.

Both had no regular jobs.

Both had a westren lobby behind themselves.

Both became modern day Fausts,

Both caused a international controversy.

Wikipedia says :Faust or Faustus is the protagonist of a popular German tale that has been used as the basis for many different fictional works. The story concerns the fate of a learned gentleman named Faust, who in his quest for forbidden or advanced knowledge of material things, summons the Devil (represented by Mephistopheles, often also referred as Mephisto), who offers to serve him for a period of time, at the cost of his soul.

In this case, Orhan Pamuk is Fausts and West is Mephistopheles.

Novels of Orhan Pamuk merely frauds, masonic plots, esoteric mumbo-jumbo in oriental sense.There is a racsist tinge in them.Turkish storeotypes are ugly, vulgar, unfair and backward.But west thinks his novels deal with the clash between past and present and the values of East and West from the point of view of a bourgeois intellectual.The truth is that, Orhan Pamuk says the same thing what Samuel Huntigton says in 'Clash Of Civilizaitions- West is good East is bad.

I can pinpoint a similarity between him and Umberto Ecco:

The best known work of Ecco is: The Name Of The Rose.If the rose is red, it points a famous Rosicurican archtype.

My name is Red, a previous novel by Orhan Pamuk contains a plot on murders of book copiers, caligarphers in Ottoman times.Both books have a plot wise affinity.

He is too narcist .He considers himself a man of thought and stance, a artfull mediator and convice others so.But too many readers find his novels obscure, boring and inconsistent.The critics don't like his books.His Turkish is awfull.He speaks English better than Turkish.I think he has writer and correction team for his books.The westren lobby behind him used every marketing tool to boost the selling of his novels.

Pro western media made remarks like that :

foremost novelist,

renowend writer,

a great story teller etc etc.

Maybe he is most known, but he is not the best writer in Turkey.But he has westren media bandwagoning him .

He faces charges for telling a Swiss newspaper in February that :

-30,000 Kurds and 1 million Armenians were killed in these lands, and nobody but me dares to talk about it."

This declarations on Armeninas and Kurds are baseless and biased.Orhan Pamuk is a great liar.He using this topic for his own interset not his plight for democracy, free speech, human rights etc etc.He sees himself as a contender for Nobel prize.

His ostensible aim is to receive the Nobel Prize for literature. He was aware it would not suffice to write only a good novel or to create a good work of art to win this prize.

This case has a open modus operandi :to fool and fuddle Turkey and Turks.

So our nation acted collectively.

This week Turkish press and media divided on his trial, some defending him as a victim and some blaming him as traitor.He made a havoc at the heartland of our nation.

Turkish Armenians divided by our bloody foe, British army against the state.British had set attrocities among Turks, Greeks, Kurds and Armenians.Like other minorites, Armenians were reach, peacefull and skilled citizens.They had high ranking positions in goverment and state .They omitted military service.They were the most pampered segement of our society when most of Turks were poor and illitirate.Most city names in eastern provinces still in Armenian.They are still part of Turkey instead of our bloody foes.

I am sure jurisdiction will not punish Orhan Pamuk .He is powerfull, he is rich.He knows West will support him.He considers Turkey as a banana republic and subservient to Western demands on any ground.So his case will not be a litmus for foreign pressure.

Turks are not beggars like any Third World country.Only rootless and rich people like Orhan Pamuk wants to join homosexual and sodomite EU. Eu is not a dream for Turks.She was and is a nightmare for many people.

The last incindents in France showed Western ideals: democracy, freedom, and equality were mere illusions. The western nations procured this ideals for themselves only not for the third world.

The Western goverments and instutions think there is a inherent biological cause. The third world is not compatible racially with Europeans. So, they want to deport them back to their countries or send them to prisons to rot.

Only rich people from third world gained access to education and good living conditions. The West served like large shopping mall for rich all around the world

Orhan Pamuk is not the first writer insulting Turkish identity.Aziz Nesin, after his books translated into English, had said '60% percent of Turks are dumb.', Ahmet Altan another charlatan said ' Turks are vulgar people.'

That is main tactic of prolific writers in Turkey: insult Turkish identity, gain fame, money and prestije world wide.A lot of Turkish writers who carved for fame and money and who had nothing to say became lackeys and mouthpieces of West.

Orhan Pamuk fell prey to the trap West way layed for him.The West will back clap him, applause him, maybe give him Nobel prize.But he will not have a homeland, like Salaman Rushdie.He will stroll aimlessly at the cold streets and oppulent sky of west like Marcel Proust.

[Borg]

It would appear that you do not like this person.

Far as I can see - someone somewhere won something.

Politics.

Little effect upon me.

Borg

[jbg]

Orhan Pamuk

Orhan Pamuk took the Nobel Prize

and hefty monetary award.

*snip*

Belive me he is a deep sheet per see.

Hasan Ali Tokuqin

Backup for this? And why don't you like him?

[kimmy]

Some background material:

Hasan started a thread about Orhan Pamuk last December, while Pamuk was on trial for "offending Turkishness":

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=4490

(for more on "Offending Turkishness", see this thread started by Betsy:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=6607 )

Although he has a correction and editting team

all his books are full of errors

esoteric mumbo jumbo

with historical hoaxes.

The "hoax" of which Pamuk is accused of spreading, and the "insult" he has cause Turkey:

"Thirty thousand Kurds and a million Armenians were killed in these lands and nobody dares to talk about it."

-Pamuk

The Armenian Genocide:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

The official Turkish view is that there was no Armenian Genocide:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial_of_the_Armenian_Genocide

And so that's what Hasan is angry about.

-k

[jbg]

Some background material:

Hasan started a thread about Orhan Pamuk last December, while Pamuk was on trial for "offending Turkishness":

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=4490

(for more on "Offending Turkishness", see this thread started by Betsy:

http://www.mapleleafweb.com/forums//index.php?showtopic=6607 )

Although he has a correction and editting team

all his books are full of errors

esoteric mumbo jumbo

with historical hoaxes.

The "hoax" of which Pamuk is accused of spreading, and the "insult" he has cause Turkey:

"Thirty thousand Kurds and a million Armenians were killed in these lands and nobody dares to talk about it."

-Pamuk

The Armenian Genocide:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armenian_Genocide

The official Turkish view is that there was no Armenian Genocide:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denial_of_the_Armenian_Genocide

And so that's what Hasan is angry about.

-k

So Hasan's position is there was no slaughter of Armenians by Turks? What does that have to do with the latest Nobel Prize for the Bangladeshi banker? Maybe I'm dense.

[Hasan Ali Tokuqin]

I am Kurdish my self

But all comments miss the point

he doesn't give any shit about Kurds or Armenians.He used the case for Noble Prize.He looks for fame nothing else.I don't hate him.He is misarable.

[Charles Anthony]

But all comments miss the point

What exactly is your point?

he doesn't give any shit about Kurds or Armenians.He used the case for Noble Prize.

Oh, I get it. He deliberately set out to write and risk persecution with the ultimate goal of winning the Nobel Prize. That makes sense.

All of the people in the Nobel board must be stupid to have been fooled by his ruse.

I think his recognition with the Nobel Prize makes people like you who discredit him appear miserably vindictive.

[M.Dancer]

So Hasan's position is there was no slaughter of Armenians by Turks? What does that have to do with the latest Nobel Prize for the Bangladeshi banker? Maybe I'm dense.

Could be.....there are various Nobel Prizes....for Peace, for science and for literature.......

[Hasan Ali Tokuqin]

Nobel Academy is not dumb.They are political.....

[Hasan Ali Tokuqin]

MEHMED NIYAZI

10.31.2006 Tuesday - ISTANBUL 14:20

An Open Letter to Orhan Pamuk

Dear Mr. Pamuk:

As you know, no other novelist’s writing style has been discussed as much as yours.

Some tend to portray you as the author of best-selling novels that are not widely read. Some argue it is only when your books are published that you create a commotion. Some describe your command of the Turkish language as weak, your linguistic style as stuttering and your novel technique as poor. And some regard you as a top novelist. As you know quite well, a novel as a work of art has its own limits; however, these limits are not based on units; they focus on subjectivity because they entail beauty, pleasure and harmony. Otherwise, we cannot explain why a man with great interest in the arts and culture like Cengiz Aytmatov, who boasts such works as “The White Ship,” “Jamilya,” and “The Day Lasts More than a Hundred Years,” has not won a Nobel Prize. However, no matter what they say, it is really pleasing to see you win the Nobel Prize as a citizen of the Turkish Republic.

Apart from the debates about what distinguishes Nobel Prize winners from the rest of us, your being awarded this very important prize will keep you in the spotlight for at least a year. You will gradually be relegated to the list of Nobel laureates because someone else will be awarded the prize next year. But nowadays, your utterances will have wide-ranging repercussions. Those recently included on this list, which excludes the names of several literary giants such as Leo Tolstoy, Anton Chekhov, Andre Malroux and Marcel Proust, have no significance today. Hence, their words have lost their impact. We sincerely wish that your name and works are never forgotten.

We have no right to expect the boldness of Fedor Dostoyevsky from you or any other novelist. Dostoyevsky was a pious Orthodox of pure Russian origin. The young man fainted from excitement during his nationalistic speech upon the death of Aleksandr Pushkin, which shook the whole Russian nation. He was never afraid to speak his mind because he believed he could resist international rejection and condemnation with his outspoken nationalistic writings. As an ordinary citizen, I do not expect you to defend our nation since great nations have always had great enemies. I am well aware of the fact that it is not easy to stand up against them, but expressing the truth is the first prerequisite for being an intellectual.

You certainly know that our historians, journalists and others really do not say anything when talking about the so-called “Armenian genocide.” I don’t know the circumstances under which you spoke on this issue; but it is clearly obvious that you did not do the necessary research. Of course, human beings are not flawless or faultless. We all make mistakes. Stubbornly insisting on making mistakes is tantamount to bigotry, whereas admitting a mistake and regretting it represents wisdom. Bigotry definitely does not befit an intellectual and world-renowned author. In fact, such an author does not have the right to insist on bigotry.

Even if you make a superficial review, you will see that the Armenian Diaspora did not even dare to launch an initiative during the British Empire to make the so-called genocide allegations recognized because there were millions of Muslims living in that country. Instead, they opted for recognition of their allegations in the United States. President Woodrow Wilson sent the U.S. chief of staff, along with a crowded delegation, to our country to investigate the claims. The delegation comprised mostly of sociologists, psychologists, anthropologists and historians began its inquiry with Armenians who migrated to Paris from Turkey.

When they asked an Armenian how the genocide was committed, they received this response: “It was awful, I was slaughtered twice.” They sensed the populist dimension of the issue and then conducted an investigation at Turkish sites where the genocide was allegedly committed. After completing the entire investigation process, the chief of staff submitted his famous report indicating no evidence of genocide. When the Armenians, unsatisfied with this report, put pressure for further investigation, Rear Admiral Marc L. Bristol was ordered to substantiate the genocide. However, he also conceded that no genocide was committed on Turkish territory. Istanbul was occupied and those suspected of committing genocide were arrested. Ziya Gokalp and those who shared the same fate were exiled to Malta. War crime tribunals were set up in Istanbul and Malta to try the suspects. All of them were acquitted. Sait Halim Pasha, the prime minister of the time, who was notified of the tribunals while he was in Italy, applied to the League of Nations and the International Court of Justice in The Hague for a trial in an effort to clarify and conclude the matter. Both replied that there was no need for a trial. It is stated in the book, on which the Armenians base their allegations, that we committed this heinous crime under instructions from the Germans. In the mid-1920s, the British government notified the German government that this was merely war propaganda. If you conduct basic research on this matter, you will discover these facts, and most probably many more. And if you so desire, I can send all of them to you by e-mail.

Mr. Pamuk, your style as a novelist has come under intense discussion, but you are an enlightened person anyway. An enlightened person is someone who understands his responsibilities. These responsibilities start from his family, then the society to which he belongs and the human race at large. You are expressing this as a fact, but this does not put you in a position to criticize the promotion of Turkish nationalism because you should definitely recognize the Turks as part of the human race. After all, past unanimity among Christian countries in making all these decisions to accuse Turkey must have relieved you of your doubts that a nation was facing a Crusader mindset. It is time to speak up if you are also upset by this mindset.

Yours truly,

October 23, 2006

www.zaman.com

[Hasan Ali Tokuqin]

Pamuk and the Nobel

By Hilmi Yavuz

After Orhan Pamuk won the Nobel Prize for Literature, I purposely didn’t write my thoughts on the subject. I wanted to let the praise and hysteria die down first. It was as if those who gave praise were prepared beforehand and had already decided what they were going to say.

But there is this point and I think it is extremely important: Those who praised him to no end or spoke extremely ill of him, even though they knew what they thought, were people who had not written a line for or against Orhan Pamuk before!

I never came across an article by Yildirim Turker praising Orhan Pamuk’s literary side nor criticism of Pamuk by Alev Alatli!.. It’s a good thing that Pamuk won the Nobel Prize for Literature, giving us an insight into their thoughts on the subject…

Look, during the past fifteen years I have written at least 20 articles regarding Orhan Pamuk. I am one of his harshest critics. I wrote and said time and again that he was an Orientalist writer; that he sees himself, in Edward Said’s words, as an “exploitation intellectual;” that he uses Ottoman and Islamic traditions as “decorum” and consequently, when compared to Ahmet Hamdi Tanpinar and Oguz Atay, who put the East/West question as a fundamental issue of their novels, he is a writer without an “issue.”

I wrote that he doesn’t take Turks seriously; and that he wrote, “When a Western observer understands me, I’ll be happy.” I also explained it was my opinion that if his “I Lived Like My Poem” got the Nobel Prize, his words, “We killed thirty thousand Kurds and one million Armenians,” would decrease the value of the Nobel. These are things known by my readers and those who know me.

Moreover, it’s obvious that the Nobel Prize lobby carries a degree of weight that can’t be overlooked. This is not only true for Pamuk, but for many writers who receive the Nobel Prize. Also in Pamuk’s case, of course the work of his literary agent Andrew Wyley played a part too.

Again, as I previously wrote, some may remember that when I asked an American friend who knows those circles (and this happened five years ago!), his evaluation of Wyley was this: “He is a killer!..”

I know first-hand that, in the last ten years in particular, Wyley has done everything in his power to promote Orhan Pamuk in America…

I want to make this point: Because of Pamuk’s Nobel Prize the public and the glorious Turkish media have been divided into two over literary value or political views. This matter is this simple and, trusting in your forgiveness, there can be no better example of looking at something with ignorance than this.

Neither of these two factors were not the determining factor in Pamuk’s receiving the Nobel Prize. That couldn’t be the case!.. Orhan Pamuk’s political stand on both the EU subject and the Armenian issue is an implication of his long-term “Orientalist” world view that he sees no need to hide.

Consequently, evaluating his words, “We killed thirty thousand Kurds and one million Armenians,” as a stand independent of his Orientalist worldview is idiocy: it is a requirement of his worldview, and he is saying whatever Europe wants to hear from him. That’s all!

In other words, Pamuk’s getting the Nobel is not due just to his works’ literary value or his political statements. His Orientalism, his literary agent’s endless efforts to make Pamuk prominent (putting him on magazine covers, articles written about him, etc.) and, of course, his translators all carry weight.

But, of course, we have to look at the result: As long as we don’t know how these factors influenced one another; in short, if the Nobel Jury’s public statement justifying their selection truly represented their real intention or not, there is no value at all in debating whether “the prize was given for political reasons” or “no, it was given for literary value.” Because the caravan has long since moved on.

October 29, 2006

Source:www.zaman.com

[kimmy]

I don't think you're going to be able to convince anyone that the Armenian genocide was a hoax, Hasan, but keep your chin up and keep reaching for the stars.

-k

[jbg]

I don't think you're going to be able to convince anyone that the Armenian genocide was a hoax, Hasan, but keep your chin up and keep reaching for the stars.

-k

I'm not familiar with this poster. Is this a poster who would deny that Islam had something to do with September 11?

[kimmy]

I'm not familiar with this poster. Is this a poster who would deny that Islam had something to do with September 11?

You can search for more of his greatest hits from his profile page.

As I recall, aside from his intense dislike of Orhan Pamuk, Hasan is interested in philosophical issues, writing bad poetry, calling the European Union a bunch of Sodomites, and blaming the Armenian genocide on the English.

-k

[jbg]

I'm not familiar with this poster. Is this a poster who would deny that Islam had something to do with September 11?

You can search for more of his greatest hits from his profile page.

As I recall, aside from his intense dislike of Orhan Pamuk, Hasan is interested in philosophical issues, writing bad poetry, calling the European Union a bunch of Sodomites, and blaming the Armenian genocide on the English.

-k

I've read them. The posts seem dreamily indirect. I'm not quite sure I understand what's going on with them and I'm not stupid.

[Hasan Ali Tokuqin]

First I am not Turkish.I am a Turkish citizen with Kurdish origin.Me and nobody in my family history didn't kill any Armenians.The British intrusion is a fact.They organized many hostilities among our people.Turkey is a modern, secular, islamic country cause we kicked their asses out.Minorites are always preserved their culture never seen a state coercion.I can speak and write Kurdish, for example.Turkey is the insurance of instabitiy in the middle east.

Euorpe is sodomite, xenophobic and homosexual, is it my problem ? No.......

I don't hate Orhan Pamuk.I did'nt make myself all of this.They are real facts about him.

And other thing:this topic is not about me.Don't make childish comments about me.

About my poems:are they realy bad, objectively ?