Why are the Conservatives Killing the Wheat Board?

[jdobbin]

Farmers. They get screwed by insects. Screwed by rain. Screwed by heat waves. And when harvest time comes, they work 18 - 20 hour days, fighting old machinery they are too poor to replace, to get the grain to market. Only what they get is so little they need a full time job to feed their kids and keep the banks at bay.

This is the way it's been for a long time. The present system sucks. To make a decent income as it stands now you have to talk the bank into letting you own huge tracts of land with a million worth of new machinery and pray your first crop is a bumper. The banks look dimly on such loans, so the average grain farmer is stuck in the middle working extra jobs just for the priviledge working himself to death.

I don't know why grains are so cheap. There are plenty of people starving aroung the world, but the prices seem to stay pretty low. I don't know if dismantling the wheat board is the answer, but it seems like they haven't helped that much.

Most Conservative support came from rural areas in the west. Most grain farmers are supportive of the Wheat Board. I wonder how popular it will be when the Conservatives trash the board.

I wonder if this will actually help or hurt farmers.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The CWB and other marketting boards serve to regulate market prices. Quotas serve the same purpose, that needs to be understood. The corporate farm is forcing the small family farm into extinction through the utilization of profit margins and business plans. The little family farm sought only enough profit to provide for the family, and the big corporate farms seek enough of a profit margin to appease the financial institutions who provide the corporate operating capital that serves to provide a revenue stream for the banks. The little guy is doomed under that scenario, unless the little guy operates without incurring debt.

All of the current bureaucracy was put into place to extend the perimeters of the agricultural sector. By recreating the lines of influence the opportunity exists to get more business into the little circle of capitalistic parasites. But to get to the point of the matter agriculture is viewed as a business now instead of a way of living. This changes things for the little guy, and not for the better.

To return to my original point, things like the CWB and the NEP and the Crow rate have had little detrimental impact of Eastern Canada by design. Only a fool could draw any other conclusion to the fact that governments utilize demographics to their advantage. Those of us on the praires know very well that we simply don't have the political muscle in our parlimentary system to change the fact that we are the hewers of wood and drawers of water. It doesn't matter how much money we make or how important our economy is to the rest of the nation when we simply cannot influence federal decisions through the democratic process. We are a minority but unable to claim the protection of the law to obtain fair treatment.

[jdobbin]

The CWB and other marketting boards serve to regulate market prices. Quotas serve the same purpose, that needs to be understood. The corporate farm is forcing the small family farm into extinction through the utilization of profit margins and business plans. The little family farm sought only enough profit to provide for the family, and the big corporate farms seek enough of a profit margin to appease the financial institutions who provide the corporate operating capital that serves to provide a revenue stream for the banks. The little guy is doomed under that scenario, unless the little guy operates without incurring debt.

All of the current bureaucracy was put into place to extend the perimeters of the agricultural sector. By recreating the lines of influence the opportunity exists to get more business into the little circle of capitalistic parasites. But to get to the point of the matter agriculture is viewed as a business now instead of a way of living. This changes things for the little guy, and not for the better.

To return to my original point, things like the CWB and the NEP and the Crow rate have had little detrimental impact of Eastern Canada by design. Only a fool could draw any other conclusion to the fact that governments utilize demographics to their advantage. Those of us on the praires know very well that we simply don't have the political muscle in our parlimentary system to change the fact that we are the hewers of wood and drawers of water. It doesn't matter how much money we make or how important our economy is to the rest of the nation when we simply cannot influence federal decisions through the democratic process. We are a minority but unable to claim the protection of the law to obtain fair treatment.

So you think the Conservatives should look to kill the family farm and help them move to the cities?

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The CWB and other marketting boards serve to regulate market prices. Quotas serve the same purpose, that needs to be understood. The corporate farm is forcing the small family farm into extinction through the utilization of profit margins and business plans. The little family farm sought only enough profit to provide for the family, and the big corporate farms seek enough of a profit margin to appease the financial institutions who provide the corporate operating capital that serves to provide a revenue stream for the banks. The little guy is doomed under that scenario, unless the little guy operates without incurring debt.

All of the current bureaucracy was put into place to extend the perimeters of the agricultural sector. By recreating the lines of influence the opportunity exists to get more business into the little circle of capitalistic parasites. But to get to the point of the matter agriculture is viewed as a business now instead of a way of living. This changes things for the little guy, and not for the better.

To return to my original point, things like the CWB and the NEP and the Crow rate have had little detrimental impact of Eastern Canada by design. Only a fool could draw any other conclusion to the fact that governments utilize demographics to their advantage. Those of us on the praires know very well that we simply don't have the political muscle in our parlimentary system to change the fact that we are the hewers of wood and drawers of water. It doesn't matter how much money we make or how important our economy is to the rest of the nation when we simply cannot influence federal decisions through the democratic process. We are a minority but unable to claim the protection of the law to obtain fair treatment.

So you think the Conservatives should look to kill the family farm and help them move to the cities?

No I think that government needs to stop screwing with the little guy at the same time as they stop kissing up to the big corporations. Leave us to our own designs, stop interfereing in our lives. Governments waste a hell of a lot of time undertaking considerations of things that have little value to citizens but direct application to business. When it comes to dealing with its citizens they tend to cut our services raise our taxes and restrict our freedom, about the opposite of what they do for business. The freaking "moral majority" lays claim to representing citizens when in fact they represent religious zealots. The supporters of the little guy are labeled socialists and anti-business. We need to wake up people, because we are being lead by the nose to a slaughter for a few pieces of gold.

[jbg]

The CWB only hurts western farmers. It does not apply to anything east of Manitoba, its an example of the federal practice of discrimination against provinces. By getting rid of the wheat board the Tories will open the door to a nice big American company to come in and take over the monopoly. The entire mess was designed to screw western Canadians to death one way or another.

Sort of the way the NEP did?

[Leader Circle]

Can you get us a link supporting this post?

Kinda sounds like whiney left wing BS to me!

Scrap the corrupt CWB and give the control back to the people who deserve it, THE FARMERS!

The only farmers who support this communist CWB are the lazy ones who have no idea how to market their own wheat!

Since a majority of rural voters supported Conservatives, I would say they are more Conservative, don't you?

And there have been several polls about support. Last one this year had support at 73% among grain farmers.

If the decision is to be made by the famers, a majority support the Wheat Board.

Where is your link....or we just have to believe you?

[jdobbin]

Where is your link....or we just have to believe you?

The Canadian Wheat Board has conducted surveys.

http://www.cwb.ca/public/en/news/releases/...rveymay2006.pdf

They were confirmed independently by several western newspapers.

Do you have a link to show a majority want the CWB disbanded?

[jdobbin]

Sort of the way the NEP did?

The Canadian Wheat Board is supported by grain farmers themselves. There is no evidence that they make money for anyone except farmers.

[Borg]

Didn't some farmers get sent to jail for selling outside the Wheat Board? Sounds like something that deserves to die to me.

Actually, what the man did was GIVE a couple bags of wheat to a U.S. 4-H group or their equivalent. Convicted of selling outside the wheat board. Went to jail and had his truck confiscated.

Ontario farmers can sell their wheat where they want and when they want. Prairie farmers cannot.

Go figure. I suggest this alone should be illegal. Grow your product and do with it as YOU will. Mr. Business owner would have a bird of he was forced to sell his lumber to clients at a board set price when he can get a better price with his own marketing. But the prairie farmer is not allowed to do this.

I happen to know quite a few who grow wheat in the prairies - they do not like the board. I also know those who do like the board. Often depends on where they live. Those closest to markets are prepared to toss the board and do their own marketing - those with long haul to market like the board as it evens the transport costs.

Solution proposed - keep the board and allow it to sell for those who want to use the service. Allow those who want to do their own marketing to do this without going to jail.

Compromise works for many and does not work for the remainder. Time will tell who wins out.

Personally I would like to see a monopoly tossed - to allow one part of the country one set of rules and another part of the country a different set of rules is hardly kosher.

Oops! We allow that with the frenchmen - so I guess the board stays.

Borg

[Jerry J. Fortin]

The CWB only hurts western farmers. It does not apply to anything east of Manitoba, its an example of the federal practice of discrimination against provinces. By getting rid of the wheat board the Tories will open the door to a nice big American company to come in and take over the monopoly. The entire mess was designed to screw western Canadians to death one way or another.

Sort of the way the NEP did?

Yes JBG, exactly that way.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Hmmm...

And there have been several polls about support. Last one this year had support at 73% among grain farmers.

You started this thread and have posted here seven times yet haven't provided *any* support for your assertions.

Where did you get this number from?

Seems like you are just expecting people to accept your figures. Pardon me for not doing so.

[jdobbin]

http://www.cwb.ca/public/en/news/releases/...rveymay2006.pdf

Posted for the second time in this forum.

My number was off. 76% support the Wheat Board. 74% do not support disbanding it.

Some people should read the thread.

[geoffrey]

Who cares if the farmers support it, it screws Canadians. Wheat, milk, butter and cheese prices are way higher then they need be in Canada, all because of this centralized pricing scheme.

When will we let those farmers that can't be economically sound finally disappear and have the real producers giving Canadians the superior products at internationally competitive prices? Real liberalism of economic policies would destroy all price fixing in Canada... it's a good step.

[jdobbin]

Who cares if the farmers support it, it screws Canadians. Wheat, milk, butter and cheese prices are way higher then they need be in Canada, all because of this centralized pricing scheme.

When will we let those farmers that can't be economically sound finally disappear and have the real producers giving Canadians the superior products at internationally competitive prices? Real liberalism of economic policies would destroy all price fixing in Canada... it's a good step.

If this is a policy the Conservatives can sell to their traditonal supporters, by all means do it.

[jbg]

Solution proposed - keep the board and allow it to sell for those who want to use the service. Allow those who want to do their own marketing to do this without going to jail.

Compromise works for many and does not work for the remainder. Time will tell who wins out.

Probably, I would support making th eBoard voluntary or disbanding it. The problem with that approach is that if the only people choosing the Board are those far from market, there would have to be an implicit subsidy for their wheat, or the Board falls apart.

[jdobbin]

Probably, I would support making th eBoard voluntary or disbanding it. The problem with that approach is that if the only people choosing the Board are those far from market, there would have to be an implicit subsidy for their wheat, or the Board falls apart.

I don't think the Board works in a dual market. If it dies and farmers are worse off, these are the people that Conservatives have taken for granted for decades to vote for them. It could get ugly.

[watching&waiting]

Maybe we need to have this setup as a voluntary joining to the wheat board, where each would sign up for ten years, and could only sell to the board during that time. Those who do not sign with the board can then sell only to outside agents and can only join the board during the next planting season and it will be for ten years.

That way the farms that think they have the ability to withstand the price rollercoaster, can do so at their own peril. I do not think it is right to make it a rule that all farmer must sale to the boards. The same would go with the milk and egg & poutry boards. That way anyone can start and do business if they choose and it would help then make market pricing more fair for the farmers as well. Here in the milk belt I see farmers dumping milk as it is beyond quota, and can not be sold. There is a problem when people in the world go starving and some farmers are destroying their products due to over production.

[Borg]

All this silly discussion.

The real issue is western producers are required by LAW to sell through the Board.

The remainder of Canadians can with their wheat as they see fit. In fact they can sell it to a western farmer. Woe to a western farmer that even GIVES one bag of wheat to someone in Ontario.

Simply not kosher. Too much power to an organization.

That is the real issue.

Borg

[jdobbin]

All this silly discussion.

If farmers in the west fare worse from the Canadian Wheat Board's demise, the Conservatives will have alienated supporters they've had for decades.

[Borg]

All this silly discussion.

If farmers in the west fare worse from the Canadian Wheat Board's demise, the Conservatives will have alienated supporters they've had for decades.

And what if they do NOT fare worse?

You have a low opinion of farmers it would appear. Prices will not fall if the Board is torn down. The world needs to eat.

You are sounding like a pessimistic doomsayer. People like you - with this comment are what hold back the country.

What if the this? What if that?

Stop with the negative and think.

Borg

[jdobbin]

And what if they do NOT fare worse?

You have a low opinion of farmers it would appear. Prices will not fall if the Board is torn down. The world needs to eat.

You are sounding like a pessimistic doomsayer. People like you - with this comment are what hold back the country.

What if the this? What if that?

Stop with the negative and think.

My opinion of farmers is high. The reason why the Wheat Board was set up in the first place was that the market was not getting farmers the best price for their grain. That's the historical reason. It is why a large majority of farmers support the Board.

The Conservatives are basically making an idealogical decision to support a small minority of grain farmers with no evidence to show it will actually benefit farmers.

The same sort of unbridled optimism leads Conservatives to battles where they have their asses handed to them. I'd settle for a little due diligence.

[Ricki Bobbi]

The Conservatives are basically making an idealogical decision to support a small minority of grain farmers with no evidence to show it will actually benefit farmers.

The same sort of unbridled optimism leads Conservatives to battles where they have their asses handed to them. I'd settle for a little due diligence.

Your first link had no evidence supporting your statment of how strongly farmers support the Wheat Board. The second was from the Wheat Boards web site.

You finish this post of with a comment about the Conservatives getting their "asses handed to them". What exactly are you referring to in that?

Please provide evidence of the massive level of support for farmers you claim from a source that might be considered objective in this debate.

[jdobbin]

Two of the largest bankruptcies in Canadian history were the result of dual marketing that some are advocating here.

The Winnipeg Free Press wrote about it in September.

Here is one of the Free Press columnists on the topic.

http://canadiandimension.com/articles/2006/09/06/635/

She also mentions the 73% of support for the Wheat Board.

There hasn't been a poll done to date that contradicts the support for the Board.

[jdobbin]

CP just released a story on the Wheat Board.

It has some remarks from Conservative voters about what they think.

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/061015/...at_board_future

[Borg]

And what if they do NOT fare worse?

You have a low opinion of farmers it would appear. Prices will not fall if the Board is torn down. The world needs to eat.

You are sounding like a pessimistic doomsayer. People like you - with this comment are what hold back the country.

What if the this? What if that?

Stop with the negative and think.

My opinion of farmers is high. The reason why the Wheat Board was set up in the first place was that the market was not getting farmers the best price for their grain. That's the historical reason. It is why a large majority of farmers support the Board.

The Conservatives are basically making an idealogical decision to support a small minority of grain farmers with no evidence to show it will actually benefit farmers.

The same sort of unbridled optimism leads Conservatives to battles where they have their asses handed to them. I'd settle for a little due diligence.

Well, perhaps you are correct.

Wheat growers in the prairies have been turning to other crops in order to mitigate their risk. Perhaps many of them are also doing so to avoid control by an agency that has a monopoly?

On the other hand Ontario and Quebec farmers have been increasing their wheat production. It seems they are quite able to market their wheat without going through a single desk selling process.

So it appears the average wheat grower in the prairies is probably not as capable of making marketing decisions and selling their product as those in the east - at least this is what one would glean from your comments.

I suppose that stems from actually being able to think outside the protective box of the Board. Your 70 some percent of wheat growers approving the Board do not appear to believe they have marketing skills?

As for the remainder of your comment - I am awaiting a clarification to the "asses handed to them". Better, I will ignore it as it appears off topic.

Borg