jdobbin Posted October 16, 2006 Report Posted October 16, 2006 The West cannot afford to fail in Afghanistan as the "Al Queda" will just slither back and the place will become another failed state. You will get no argument from me that Canada is paying a "high price" in blood, and treasure but something needs to be done to contain the Taliban threat. This isn't decades ago we need to deal in "present days' realities" and not yesterdays! Al Qaeda is safely across the border in Pakistan and setting up in Somalia. Quote
KrustyKidd Posted October 16, 2006 Report Posted October 16, 2006 Why is it good to be a "crack regiment", but not a "crack whore"? Classic!!!!!! I worked siesmic with a bunch that was heavy into dubies and known to be a crack crew but had no idea .... Quote We're Paratroopers Lieutenant. We're supposed to be surrounded - CPT Richard Winters
TravellingTimeMachineSalesman Posted October 16, 2006 Author Report Posted October 16, 2006 We need to keep them across the border and prevent them from killing our soldiers. The Sultanate of Oman had the same problem with Maoist insurgents until the British SAS, Omani irregulars and Iranian marines kicked them out of their mountain stronghold in Dhofar and drove them back across the South Yemen border. Being we lack the troops emphasis should be placed on getting the various social projects completed, training the army, police, and border guards. Also we will need to make the lives of the Afghans better otherwise they might switch to the Taliban this according to the British General in charge of NATO forces. Quote
jdobbin Posted October 16, 2006 Report Posted October 16, 2006 We need to keep them across the border and prevent them from killing our soldiers. The Sultanate of Oman had the same problem with Maoist insurgents until the British SAS, Omani irregulars and Iranian marines kicked them out of their mountain stronghold in Dhofar and drove them back across the South Yemen border. Being we lack the troops emphasis should be placed on getting the various social projects completed, training the army, police, and border guards.Also we will need to make the lives of the Afghans better otherwise they might switch to the Taliban this according to the British General in charge of NATO forces. I think all those things are being done. It is big border though. If the U.S. can't keep unarmed Mexicans from coming to the U.S., it seems an impossible task to keep armed Taliban from sneaking in. Quote
geoffrey Posted October 16, 2006 Report Posted October 16, 2006 The West cannot afford to fail in Afghanistan as the "Al Queda" will just slither back and the place will become another failed state. You will get no argument from me that Canada is paying a "high price" in blood, and treasure but something needs to be done to contain the Taliban threat. This isn't decades ago we need to deal in "present days' realities" and not yesterdays! Al Qaeda is safely across the border in Pakistan and setting up in Somalia. Because we bailed on Somalia? Quote RealRisk.ca - (Latest Post: Prosecutors have no "Skin in the Game") --
jdobbin Posted October 16, 2006 Report Posted October 16, 2006 Because we bailed on Somalia? No, what is happening in Somalia runs deeper than that. It may have even accelerated with continued presence of troops in Somalia. It is the what often happens in tribal warring countries. They either unify under a strongman or a religion. They rarely do under a democracy. Quote
geoffrey Posted October 16, 2006 Report Posted October 16, 2006 Because we bailed on Somalia? No, what is happening in Somalia runs deeper than that. It may have even accelerated with continued presence of troops in Somalia. It is the what often happens in tribal warring countries. They either unify under a strongman or a religion. They rarely do under a democracy. So instead, we leave and let them die. Let women be persecuted and all that too. What is your solution? Withdrawl? Isolationism? Big reminder, it doesn't work. Quote RealRisk.ca - (Latest Post: Prosecutors have no "Skin in the Game") --
jdobbin Posted October 16, 2006 Report Posted October 16, 2006 So instead, we leave and let them die. Let women be persecuted and all that too. What is your solution? Withdrawl? Isolationism? Big reminder, it doesn't work. I don't know that we can impose a solution there. As far as isolation goes, we have to monitor the situation to ensure that Somalia isn't used as base for terrorism. As far as occupying it again. No way. Strike at any terrorism but for goodness sake, occupying 30 or 40 countries is just not in the cards. The 30 or 40 I speak off are Middle East, Asian, African and South American countries. Even in Afghanistan, it is hard to say that we will ever make a dent in their tribal ways. Quote
TravellingTimeMachineSalesman Posted October 16, 2006 Author Report Posted October 16, 2006 Did anyone mention the 24 Pakistani soldiers who were ambushed and mutilated by the Somali gunmen? Hey folks, these were Muslims who were killed and their remains desecrated in the worst way by other Muslims. Then there were 18 US Army Rangers and "Delta Force" personnel killed and two helicopters shot down in Mogadishu. Now the "Airborne Regiment" had 0 for casualties can anyone explain why that was, perhaps the Canadians were too fearsome for the locals? Canada's elite para-commandos suffered no loses and managed to keep their base and personnel safe. Were they doing something right here? Quote
Army Guy Posted October 16, 2006 Report Posted October 16, 2006 TravellingTimeMachineSalesman : Now the "Airborne Regiment" had 0 for casualties can anyone explain why that was, perhaps the Canadians were too fearsome for the locals? Not true, read the cas reports again, there was serveral cas, including a few deaths. I'm glad your taking an interest in the CAR, and they do have a colorful past. But this is but one unit, of troops. nothing more. those members are now retired or are in the other Inf regts. the same Inf regts doing the fighting now. And it will be serveral years now before the CSOR becomes reality. So for now i guess your stuck with us ,maybe you can start cheering on the guys that are doing the job. I know you mean well, but we've buried the Regt along time ago, it's time to let go. Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
Argus Posted October 16, 2006 Report Posted October 16, 2006 It has been 1 month and 12 days since I was wounded and pulled from the battlefield. When I was in the hospital in KAF, I had hoped that I would stay in Afghanistan to recover. Why would I want to stay in such a horrible place that almost claimed my life? I didn’t want to leave my family. Dealing with being home from Kandahar Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
jbg Posted October 16, 2006 Report Posted October 16, 2006 Did anyone mention the 24 Pakistani soldiers who were ambushed and mutilated by the Somali gunmen? Hey folks, these were Muslims who were killed and their remains desecrated in the worst way by other Muslims. The old religion of peace (pieces) at work again. Can anyone deny that there's something deeply, pathologically wrong here? Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
Army Guy Posted October 17, 2006 Report Posted October 17, 2006 Argus: Argus i want to thank you for sharing this with us, it is very powerful, very well written, and a must read for everyone. I actually had to sit down and read it over serveral times, it has brought back some very ,very, powerful emotions, which i thought were buried deep, not only in myself but to all i shared it with. Thank Argus for sharing. Thank you piper Quote We, the willing, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have now done so much for so long with so little, we are now capable of doing anything with nothing.
M.Dancer Posted October 17, 2006 Report Posted October 17, 2006 Did anyone mention the 24 Pakistani soldiers who were ambushed and mutilated by the Somali gunmen? Hey folks, these were Muslims who were killed and their remains desecrated in the worst way by other Muslims. The old religion of peace (pieces) at work again. Can anyone deny that there's something deeply, pathologically wrong here? Pathologically wrong in Somalia? No kidding. Personally, I blame the Italians...........the communists......the tribalists......who have raised a generation of children that can casually view an atrocity with no more outrage than viewing a squirrel run over by a car..... This sort of pathological disorder isn't confined to the muslims......see the lord's resistance army for example.....it has everything to do with a generation lost to extreme violence, which is just one reason why the conflict in FRY, which had gone on too long, had to be ended.....before they turned into a lost generation. Quote RIGHT of SOME, LEFT of OTHERS If it is a choice between them and us, I choose us
TravellingTimeMachineSalesman Posted October 17, 2006 Author Report Posted October 17, 2006 The Somalia debacle can clearly be attributed to the West's inability to "stay the course" in a crisis or hotspot. Former US President Bill Clinton has to one of the worst leaders America has ever had! Why did he abruptly abandon Somalia when there were people that supported us and were willing to help? The battle in Mogadishu that killed 18 US Army Ramgers and "Delta Force" personnel was no reason to cut and run, we should have "hung in there" and fought on and won the peace. No wonder Bin Laden and his disciples are still in business they see us for what we really are-------weak and indecisive!!! Quote
jdobbin Posted October 17, 2006 Report Posted October 17, 2006 The Somalia debacle can clearly be attributed to the West's inability to "stay the course" in a crisis or hotspot.Former US President Bill Clinton has to one of the worst leaders America has ever had! Why did he abruptly abandon Somalia when there were people that supported us and were willing to help? The battle in Mogadishu that killed 18 US Army Ramgers and "Delta Force" personnel was no reason to cut and run, we should have "hung in there" and fought on and won the peace. No wonder Bin Laden and his disciples are still in business they see us for what we really are-------weak and indecisive!!! Bush has been in power for six years. Why hasn't he gone back to Somalia to finish the job? Why doesn't he go to Sudan? He called it a genocide. Where is he? Quote
Argus Posted October 18, 2006 Report Posted October 18, 2006 The Somalia debacle can clearly be attributed to the West's inability to "stay the course" in a crisis or hotspot.Former US President Bill Clinton has to one of the worst leaders America has ever had! Why did he abruptly abandon Somalia when there were people that supported us and were willing to help? The battle in Mogadishu that killed 18 US Army Ramgers and "Delta Force" personnel was no reason to cut and run, we should have "hung in there" and fought on and won the peace. No wonder Bin Laden and his disciples are still in business they see us for what we really are-------weak and indecisive!!! To be fair to Clinton, he was hardly alone. The US Congress was growing more and more opposed to the Somalia operation even before "black hawk down", with threats to cut off funding rising. After that battle there was virtually outright panic in congress. I remember at least one senator actually crying at the podium as he demanded the US leave Somalia. Clinton didn't have an awful lot of choice. Quote "A liberal is someone who claims to be open to all points of view — and then is surprised and offended to find there are other points of view.” William F Buckley
TravellingTimeMachineSalesman Posted October 18, 2006 Author Report Posted October 18, 2006 [ Bush has been in power for six years. Why hasn't he gone back to Somalia to finish the job? Why doesn't he go to Sudan? He called it a genocide. Where is he? Thats because most of the US forces are over in Iraq fighting where they should ever have been sent in the first place! Once again Americans are being sent to fight and die in a war that the US government have no real plan or intention of winning. Quote
jdobbin Posted October 18, 2006 Report Posted October 18, 2006 Thats because most of the US forces are over in Iraq fighting where they should ever have been sent in the first place! Once again Americans are being sent to fight and die in a war that the US government have no real plan or intention of winning. I thought you supported the war in Iraq. Why not? Quote
TravellingTimeMachineSalesman Posted October 18, 2006 Author Report Posted October 18, 2006 Iraq is a "made in Israel" war! Americans, British and others are dying for the security of Israel and "Halliburton Oil". While I have no love for Saddam Hussein, this war is actually helping to fan the flames of Islamic fundamentalism while at the same time providing a nice place for the "jihadis" of the world to come and get "on the job training" for future terrorist attacks. Never mind that this war is depleting the finances and the military forces of the US and the Western world, its making the world a far more dangerous place!!!! Quote
Topaz Posted October 18, 2006 Report Posted October 18, 2006 A British General has said that Nato will be there for 20 years! Now, how much in debt are we going to be in and how many troops will be survived for that length of time? The Defense Minister has said that the money for Afghanistan is coming out of the "general fund" where the IE excess also goes. SO Canadians, don't lose your job because there may not be any IE for you! Quote
TravellingTimeMachineSalesman Posted October 18, 2006 Author Report Posted October 18, 2006 Iraq is actually draining away valuable financial resources and manpower that could be used for the effort in Afghanistan. The Afghans need our help in the worst way and we should be doing for more!!!!! Quote
TravellingTimeMachineSalesman Posted October 18, 2006 Author Report Posted October 18, 2006 Error!! It should be "far more" Quote
jbg Posted October 18, 2006 Report Posted October 18, 2006 The Somalia debacle can clearly be attributed to the West's inability to "stay the course" in a crisis or hotspot.Former US President Bill Clinton has to one of the worst leaders America has ever had! Why did he abruptly abandon Somalia when there were people that supported us and were willing to help? The battle in Mogadishu that killed 18 US Army Ramgers and "Delta Force" personnel was no reason to cut and run, we should have "hung in there" and fought on and won the peace. No wonder Bin Laden and his disciples are still in business they see us for what we really are-------weak and indecisive!!! Bush has been in power for six years. Why hasn't he gone back to Somalia to finish the job? Why doesn't he go to Sudan? He called it a genocide. Where is he? Thats because most of the US forces are over in Iraq fighting where they should ever have been sent in the first place! Once again Americans are being sent to fight and die in a war that the US government have no real plan or intention of winning. I am quoting the above posts, just to illustrate the kind of carping that many people in the West have been guilty of. People question the fight in Iraq, which had substantial ability and inclination to fund war, terror and danger elsewhere) and argue that we should instead be fighting in areas like Sudan or Somalia with zero resources, people who have almost zero productive potential, that are destined to forever be basket cases. I myself thing that while we will never learn what Saddam would have done, we are better off from not having found out. Go here for my full thoughts. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
jbg Posted October 19, 2006 Report Posted October 19, 2006 Iraq is a "made in Israel" war! Americans, British and others are dying for the security of Israel and "Halliburton Oil". While I have no love for Saddam Hussein, this war is actually helping to fan the flames of Islamic fundamentalism while at the same time providing a nice place for the "jihadis" of the world to come and get "on the job training" for future terrorist attacks. Never mind that this war is depleting the finances and the military forces of the US and the Western world, its making the world a far more dangerous place!!!! What a reckless post. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
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