Canada Needs a crack Parachute Regiment to Hunt Down the bands of Tali

[TravellingTimeMachineSalesman]

Why hasn't Canada got a crack parachute regiment that can be sent into action along the Pakistan border with Afghanistan? The key problem being faced by NATO is the border where the Taliban and other 'jihadis' are infiltrating to kill NATO sodiers and innocent Afghan civilians with the full knowledge we can't cross the border to hit their staging areas and bases. If we are ever going to win and safely bring our service personnel home then we are going to have to 'escalate' this war and cripple the Taliban's ability to fight. Someone needs to tell the NATO commander that more troops are needed and that we have to seal the border soon!!

[geoffrey]

I'll start training them tonight, they'll be ready tomorrow!!

Pfft... things take time, we've had an anti-military government since the early 80's.

[Army Guy]

Although it has been sometime since anything was reported in the media, But DND has been putting together a CSOR or special operations regt, and has been training soldiers for sometime. can't say when thier training will end. or what caliber it is. My personal opinion is it will be some time before they are of the same caliber as the CAR, it will take years of training to reach that level. Don't get me wrong thier training is some of the toughest i've seen, but it takes a while for the unit to jel together.

[TravellingTimeMachineSalesman]

What I want to know is why the "Airborne Regiment" disbanded when Canada needs paratroopers? The "Special Forces Regiment" won't be ready in time for another crisis!!!

[geoffrey]

What I want to know is why the "Airborne Regiment" disbanded when Canada needs paratroopers? The "Special Forces Regiment" won't be ready in time for another crisis!!!

Political pressure, they had a bit of a black eye from Somalia.

[M.Dancer]

What I want to know is why the "Airborne Regiment" disbanded when Canada needs paratroopers? The "Special Forces Regiment" won't be ready in time for another crisis!!!

Political pressure, they had a bit of a black eye from Somalia.

I don't agree they needed to be disbanded, but there were some serious problems in a couple of the commandoes. At worst they needed a gutting and the trouble makers sent to Fort Edmonton.

[TravellingTimeMachineSalesman]

The present situation in Afghanistan clearly demonstrate the need for airmobile operations using small groups of "hunter and killer" teams on "search and destroy" operations to root out bands of Taliban in the mountains. The Soviet found that their "Spetznatz" commandoes far more effective than conventional forces due to the hostile terrain.

Canada urgently needs to reforming of a paratroop force to enhance its military capabilities in such place as Afghanistan, Dafur, the Congo etc. Too bad the ten defence minister David Collenette and PM Chretien didn't consider this before hand.

[uOttawaMan]

The present situation in Afghanistan clearly demonstrate the need for airmobile operations using small groups of "hunter and killer" teams on "search and destroy" operations to root out bands of Taliban in the mountains. The Soviet found that their "Spetznatz" commandoes far more effective than conventional forces due to the hostile terrain.

Canada urgently needs to reforming of a paratroop force to enhance its military capabilities in such place as Afghanistan, Dafur, the Congo etc. Too bad the ten defence minister David Collenette and PM Chretien didn't consider this before hand.

Apparently you haven't heard of JTF2

[crazymf]

Send in a band of Alabama Rednecks.

Tell them:

1. Ammunition is free.

2. There's no limit.

3. Poaching at night is acceptable.

4. Taliban taste like chicken.

5. Bin Laden was responsible for Dale Earnhardts death.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Canada needs to first redefine its role in international terms. Our role prior to the Conservative government was one of a peace keeping nature. A combat role is something completely different. You need a much different force composition to partake in this role. There is a vast difference in offensive and defensive operations.

As it stands we are sadly lacking in an air component in the Afgan theatre of operations. Without attack helicopters and other fixed wing ground attack aircraft our soldiers in the field are deprived of adequate protection.

There is a distinct lack of political comprehension of what is involved in military operations in this nation of peace keepers. That little fact has detrimental impact to the mission at hand.

[Higgly]

Send in a band of Alabama Rednecks.

Tell them:

1. Ammunition is free.

2. There's no limit.

3. Poaching at night is acceptable.

4. Taliban taste like chicken.

5. Bin Laden was responsible for Dale Earnhardts death.

The guy who kills the most bandits gets Jessica Simpson's phone number.

[watching&waiting]

Do we not have the JTF2 task force as a special ops of this type in Canada right now. Also I believe I read where part of this group was already over there, but I cna not be sure of that.

[jdobbin]

Why hasn't Canada got a crack parachute regiment that can be sent into action along the Pakistan border with Afghanistan? The key problem being faced by NATO is the border where the Taliban and other 'jihadis' are infiltrating to kill NATO sodiers and innocent Afghan civilians with the full knowledge we can't cross the border to hit their staging areas and bases. If we are ever going to win and safely bring our service personnel home then we are going to have to 'escalate' this war and cripple the Taliban's ability to fight. Someone needs to tell the NATO commander that more troops are needed and that we have to seal the border soon!!

Is this the American area anyways? They wanted to hunt Taliban in the mountain areas.

I don't know if they are using their own airborne units though.

[killjoy]

Better to not disturb the JTF while they convalesce in their fortresses of solitude. They're too busy deciding what to do with HALF of the 10 billion Mr. Martin gave them.

We might have to make do with our sniper-- opps, sorry, our 'recce units' who were humping the hills harder than the US mountain units or their rangers or their special-f###in'-forces during Tora-Bora, Anaconda, et. al. Yeah break the world record combat sniper shot for distance more than three times in a day and people still scream for the glorious "Elite" Airborne Unit as if they were the only ones who ever took a walk off a plane at night.

It was definitely a knee-jerk reaction to disband them, that was unecessary, but if there were ever a group of dimwits and ne'er-do-wells who needed a Stalinist-style purging it was that unit. They did not do Canadians proud. The best of the bunch were white supremacists and frankly I don't need to sit beside those guys while I'm shitting.

We don't need "better' soldiers or weapons. What we need is a new weapon. An anti-bullsh!t weapon we can use back here at home. If NATO loses in Afghanistan it won't be the mighty Taliban, it'll be the mighty BS.

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[uOttawaMan]

Yvan eht Nioj!

[killjoy]

Yvan eht Nioj!

Ah yes. The Navy and their hazing routines.

They do have a flare for the homoerotic.

.

[TravellingTimeMachineSalesman]

The "best of the best were racist"? Don't we have some of those in the RCMP, the Surete, the Corrections Canada? Yeah, a couple of diehard rednecks had a Confederate flag, made a couple of outrageous videos. No, I don't think what they did in Somalia to Shadane Arone was right, nor was I pleased watching the crude initiations and episodes of 'hazing' those involved should have been thrown out. Why do we always blame the majority for the wrongdoings, and misdeeds of a few immoral degenerates? Our liberal media didn't tell the public about the schools, roads that the unit built, the police force that was trained, these 'good deeds' never made the headlines instead we heard about the beating death of some thief who shouldn't have been inside of the base when he was caught. By the way it was Matchee an Aboriginal member that took part in the outrage displayed in the picture. The videos were old and many of those involved had been 'RTU' or had left the service. Not all members of the unit were racists, and overt bigots as there were many First Nations, blacks, and other minorities who were a "true band of brothers" and would die for each other in any "drop zone" no matter where it was.

On the day of the disbanding of the regiment the most touching moment was the sight of a black sergeant his eyes brimming with tears as members stood in formation for the last time. I am sure he wouldn't share your view that there were 'nazis', 'racists' who wore the "maroon beret" and the jump wings.

I think the Chretien and David Collenette owe the members of the ex members of the unit not only an explanation but an apology as well!!!!

[killjoy]

Yeah, a couple of diehard rednecks had a Confederate flag, made a couple of outrageous videos.

I'm gonna say this really slowly so there's no mistake in what I'm saying:

They.

Illegally.

Detained.

A mere hungry teenager.

Put cigarettes out on his feet.

And beat him to near to death.

Then left him there to scream.

Until by morning.

He finally died.

At which time they were heard to remark:

"We can't leave now."

"We haven't killed enough niggers yet".

It goes much deeper than a confederate flag (although im not sure why any flag beyond the Canadian one would be in their possession). They had definite links to Alberta white supremacist groups. They thought of the regiment as their own personal army of M.F'ers who could do whatever they wanted and viewed the Canadian government (and Canadians) with contempt. I am completely unaware of any schools this regiment built or any police they trained. Obviously I could be wrong here, I dunno for sure. Somalia was a cluster#uck that made zero progress. I wore a blue helmet there and sat and watched as food was handed out while the media filmed it, then after the media packed up and left so did the food....off to play the shell game with the media elsewhere. So ther I am all of 21 years old and watching people who traveled for days to get food now denied and looking at me. What was my duty? To write all that down. What became of that report? Nothing. More would've been accomplished if we were shovelling water.

It's true it only came down to a few members but many of the ranks were rife with them. I agree they should not have disbanded the Regiment. But they most certainly needed to disband many who were in there.

Just sayin'.

[TravellingTimeMachineSalesman]

What about the infamous "Vandoos"? They were a real bunch of degenerates who should be allowed to depart whenever Quebec decides to end this arrangement that their kinfolk in the St Lawrence Seaway despise. Long before we had "the maroon beret" and "jump wings" these "Frenchies" gunned down bayonnetted or slit the throat of German prisoners who threw down their weapons and raise their arms in surrender in both World War I and II. I guess these guys didn't like the idea of sharing their rations, and water with "Jerries", or "Krauts" or having to walk a few miles to a POW camp in the rear so just gun them down and say they "tried to escape". I know that "#2 commando" use to wreck bars, and coffeeshops whenever their members were beaten up by locals.

I know there were members with links to "white supremacists", but is Alberta really the only province with racists? About them not liking the Canadian gov't well I I wasn't too favourable about the Liberals "on Capital

Hill either and I am from Ontario not exactly white! PET and his Francophones should never have been elected to run things in Canada as it was on their watch we allowed our military to "go to hell", the national debt to "soar through the heavens", and allowed radical feminists to destroy our society. By the way whose idea was it to send the "Airborne Regiment" to Somalia anyway? They weren't exactly social workers".

[KrustyKidd]

It was definitely a knee-jerk reaction to disband them, that was unecessary, but if there were ever a group of dimwits and ne'er-do-wells who needed a Stalinist-style purging it was that unit. They did not do Canadians proud. The best of the bunch were white supremacists and frankly I don't need to sit beside those guys while I'm shitting.

Idiot. Spent eight years there as pathfinder and HQ Sigs, in the entire time I only met one bigot and he was an immigrant from South Africa. Lord, you show your colors as a moron. Trap on, your posts are obviously spoken from idiocy.

As for the need of an Airborne unit, better give them something to be Airborne with as without it, any hard ground soldiers will do. In the Airborne, they were light infantry, much the same as what the PPCLI was and is. Troopers were brought in from thier parent units for a two year hitch (and often extended if they wished) and then returned therefore diseminating the experience. What we have now is a less cohesive Special Force but nonetheless, it is intact in spirit and, will hopefully be reconstituted once again as a unified force.

However, as I said, without air support and mobility, may as well send in ground troops. Did you know that the 101 Airborborne Divisin from the states is not a paratrooper unit but rather an 'Airmobile Division?' We used to call them screamers on a string as they were fast ropers, a method of getting on the gournd from a helecopter via a fixed rope very unlike rappeling. You might have seen it in 'Black Hawk Down' when buddy got wounded in the origional problem. Once on the ground, they were guys with a rifle period.

Pretty much, you don't need airmobile battalions in Afganistan, you need mountain warfare experts coaching troops, desert warefare experts same and on and on. Troops are great, brave, motivated and this particular mission I can tell you does not need one frickin parachute. Killjoy is an idiot who knows not of what he or she speaks. As for calling names, he or she did a great diservice to people who defend us all and, to my past of which I am proud and, shall ever be.

The rest of you are not off the hook though. JTF2 is an elite unit who are trained to carry out assasinations, snatches and sniper action. Not win battles. To portray them as the end to all ends is to discredit the troops who gain and hold ground, patrol it and risk life and limb to guard it. What is needed on the gournd is soldiers, brave and serious ones. In this, we know we have them in great qauantities and, when they come home they should be honored for their service not belittled for not being Airborne, JTF, Special Forces or whatever you think they should be but, because of your ignorence, are not.

This is what is meant by 'supporting the troops' So many in this thread did just the opposite.

[killjoy]

Idiot. Spent eight years there as pathfinder and HQ Sigs, in the entire time I only met one bigot and he was an immigrant from South Africa. Lord, you show your colors as a moron. Trap on, your posts are obviously spoken from idiocy.

Uh huh. That's nice.

I've been an infantryman for 3 PPCLI for close to 15 years now. Currently Combat SP Coy. I've earned the right to call it as I see it. Seems someone needs a reminder.

There had also been recurring discipline problems and reports that some members of the unit were white supremacists, who were concentrated in 2 Commando (each company sized subunit was designated a Commando); one of the symptoms being the adoption of the Confederate States of America (slave-owners' rebellion) flag as the commando's barracks-room decoration.[1] The Airborne consisted of distinct sub-units provided by each of Canada's regular infantry regiments; later, commander Lieutenant Colonel Kenward suggested that the line regiments had offloaded some of their "bad apples" into the CAR. The commanding officer of the CAR, Lieutenant Colonel Paul Morneault, declared this "rogue commando" unit unfit for service abroad and sought to leave it behind in Canada when he deployed. Instead, he was relieved of his command and replaced by Lieutenant Colonel Carol Mathieu, an officer renowned for his rough-and-ready toughness.

Brown, an aboriginal Canadian, claimed in his defence that he informed every officer he could find of the happenings in the bunker, and requested that they intervene. Brown stated that when the officers declined to stop the torture, he began documenting the event with photographs. Brown later published a book in which he presented a case wherein he had been made the scapegoat for the incident and the officers who had not intervened were not brought to justice.

Home-video footage of another trooper, Cpl Matt McKay, was found, in which he stated that "we ain't killed enough niggers yet." Predeployment photographs of McKay performing a Nazi Salute in front of a Swastika were also published. Video of brutal hazing rituals also came to light.

As the inquiry unfolded, home videos of initiation rites in the CAR's French-speaking commando, found their way into the media. The new Minister of National Defence David Collenette argued that the videos were disgusting, demeaning and racist. With the continued accumulation of such politically damaging visibility, the Minister of National Defence ordered the Canadian Airborne Regiment disbanded in 1995. It has been suggested that this move was as much driven by budget cuts to the Canadian Forces as by the Somalia Affair, but there is no question that the affair gave the Minister the public support needed to disband the regiment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia_Affair

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[killjoy]

Hmm. Seems nobody wants to play now.

Krusty I probably should've been more specific when I used the term 'unit' as to mention that the entire regiment should not be painted in this fashion. I did say that I thought the regiment shouldn't have been disbanded, that was supposed to be the caveat. Perhaps it wasn't clear enough. Perhaps also my reference to Stalanistic purges is too easy to misconstrue. I was simply being me, which includes a little exaggeration. The regiment as a whole were not guilty of these incidents and the white supremiscts I speak of were limited to the one coy., but that company was rife with them, including officers. Your experiences in Signals coy may not have provided you with that vision of them that I have seen but it was most certainly a serious problem.

Once again: Krusty is right insomuch as I shouldn't have made the entire regiment out like racists. This wasn't my intention.

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[KrustyKidd]

Hmm. Seems nobody wants to play now.

Thanks for your explanation. I take back my derogatory comment towards yourself. However, the Confederate flag is not a racist flag, just as the Civil War was not fought for blacks freedoms but rather to prevent the SOuth from seceeding for reasons among other things undue tariffs and of course the abolition of slavery. In a nutshell, the North bought agricultural goods ie cotton off the south much the way the Wheat Board buys wheat off western farmers for less than they sell it for on the world markets. In the US case, the South was not permitted to sell to foreign markets but were forced to deal with the North. The tax assignments went disproportionately to the North, who were intent on industrializing and building their infastructure leaving the South completely left out.

Following Abraham Lincoln's election as President in 1860 on a platform that among other things sought to raise import taxes to benefit northern manufacturers and opposed the extension of slavery, seven slave southern states chose to secede from the United States and declared that the Confederate States of America was formed on February 4, 1861. Jefferson Davis was selected as its first President on February 9 and inaugurated on February 18.

Unwilling to reward but taking without fair reimbursement, the situation developed into a deep division within the country and anti North sentiment within the south. Added to this was the anti slavery movement which had come to a head in the North. Here, the South drew the line in this inequitable situation. The North, unwilling to pay fair prices for cotten was now intent on taking away the tools with which the South was using to produce it. The result was Rebelion and separation. Not for slavery but for the situation that developed. Slavery itself more than likely would have petered out on its own within twenty years as only the well off could afford them and to employ them so they could pay for themselves was growing increasingly difficult.

Southern fears of modernization and Republican control

In a broader sense, the North was rapidly modernizing in a manner deeply threatening to the South, for the North was not only becoming more economically powerful; it was developing new modernizing, urban values while the South was clinging more and more to the old rural traditional values of the Jeffersonian yeoman

The Confererate Flag

Over time the flag has acquired a wide range of meanings, some apparently contradicting one another. Since the CSA was fighting for independence during the Civil War, much as the United States did during the Revolutionary War, the Confederate Flag has always had connotations of rebellion, patriotism, self-determination, dissent, freedom, and liberty.

Others see it as a symbol of the institution of slavery, or of the Jim Crow laws established by the many Southern states enforcing racial segregation within their borders for almost a century later. As a result, there have been numerous political fights over the use of the Confederate battle flag in Southern state flags, at sporting events at Southern universities, and on public buildings. According to Civil War historian and southerner Shelby Foote, the flag traditionally represented the south's resistance to northern political dominance generally; it became racially charged during the Civil Rights Movement, when protecting segregation suddenly became the focal point of that resistance.

RSM Bakker gave the Commando a verbal blast one day out on the parade Square back in '82 calling them (among other things) 'Rebels' for a dress and deportment issues along with some loose ends in the barracks he had found. I immediately afterwards, the Rebel Flag was being sported everywhere. It should be notoed the Bakker was also a Patricia.

Now, in your mind, do you think 2 CDO began sporting the flag because they are racists or because they consider themselves rebels and non conformists in a unit where having the spirit ofthe rebel is considered large in battle?

And, given the fact that about ten percent of the Regiment was black, Aborigional and of non English desent, why would they too carry this flag around, sporting it on their cars and motorcycles as well if they felt it meant the unit believed in slavery and white supremacy?

[killjoy]

Thanks for your explanation. I take back my derogatory comment towards yourself.

The misunderstanding was reasonable. There was no harm done and no offence taken.

I would not begin to argue the meaning of the confederate flag beyond the principal that it has nothing to do with Canada...in short the fact that it's American and not Canadian offends my sensibilities, but I agree: it is no basis to support white supremacy leanings. It's a mere trifle in terms of a complaint to me. your points about the flag are well received.

The contention of white supremacy connections accusation is made from comments and actions done by certain individuals and tacitly approved of by commanders. Again I stress: it did only boil down to a few, but a few in the right places within a company can make a big difference. The former CO knew of these problems and was not permitted opportunity to act on them. They should not have been disbanded but there were definitely individuals that needed to be replaced. Unfortunately those individuals represented some of their best in terms of skills and experience. That's what I meant when I said the 'best of them were white supremacist'. But again I should've been clearer about the one company and not painted the whole regiment in that fashion. Perhaps less bombastic speech would’ve been clearer as well.

RSM Bakker gave the Commando a verbal blast one day out on the parade Square back in '82 calling them (among other things) 'Rebels' for a dress and deportment issues along with some loose ends in the barracks he had found. I immediately afterwards, the Rebel Flag was being sported everywhere. It should be notoed the Bakker was also a Patricia.

Now, in your mind, do you think 2 CDO began sporting the flag because they are racists or because they consider themselves rebels and non conformists in a unit where having the spirit ofthe rebel is considered large in battle?

Probably the latter, but I should point out that '82 was way before my time.

Cheers.

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[KrustyKidd]

Probably the latter, but I should point out that '82 was way before my time.

Year before mine as well however, were you aware that Ed Witt (another former RSM and Patricia) and Fred Shwick (a Warrent Officer in 2 CDO) were both former Hitler Youth? Does that also make the CAR Nazi White Supremists?