Alberta Leadership Race

[geoffrey]

I'd even say go for a name change, something Taft was contemplating, but I doubt that will ever happen.

To?!? That's be interesting.

I think for the Liberals to be successful, the first name they need to change is Taft's. He has virtually no profile dispite being leader for quite some time.

[Black Dog]

It looks like the first ballot will between Dinning and Morton for the win according to today's Herald. Apparently Morton's 'reactionary' stances are attractive Mr. BD.

Reactionary stances attractive to PC members? No way!.

Are you voting in the election BD?

Naw. I'm going to spend that fiver on a pint down at my namesake and weep for my province.

CB

, I think if the Liberal's were to present a constructive opposition to the PC's they could possibly win an election.

Trouble is after more than 30 years in power, the Tories are entrenched at every level-business, political and social. In the past, the PCs have demonstrated an almost Soviet zeal for party membership (there was a time when advancement within the beuracracy was restricted-unofficially of course-to party members) which makes breaking through a difficult task for any challenger.

With Albertan's they can switch political alliegances in a day if they are unhappy with the situation.

Albertans can? That's a new one.

If the Liberal's are to be successful they have to show off their democratic renewal policies, education, fiscal, and environment policies. All of which could help bring more votes to their party in the next election.

I've said it before WRT to the U.S., but I'll say it again here. I think this is a naive view of contemporary politics. Intelligent policy just doesn't win elections in this day and age. It's about who can look best on TV, say the right platitudes and hit the right emotional notes. Policy? Pffft.

[geoffrey]

It looks like the first ballot will between Dinning and Morton for the win according to today's Herald. Apparently Morton's 'reactionary' stances are attractive Mr. BD.

Reactionary stances attractive to PC members? No way!.

I wasn't even considering Morton until Harper's statement on the Quebec nation. Now I have to consider if we need someone like Morton to protect our interests from the Quebecois incursion that is typical from recent Federal Tory governments.

I want the deal Quebec gets, and I see Morton as more likely to get it. Oberg and Dinning would be pushovers Federally.

Are you voting in the election BD?

Naw. I'm going to spend that fiver on a pint down at my namesake and weep for my province.

CB

Cheers.

[Canadian Blue]

Naw. I'm going to spend that fiver on a pint down at my namesake and weep for my province.

CB

Going to the Iron Horse mate...

Funny this is, I'd probably rather spend 5$ on a pint of beer rather then a political membership. I don't think I really believe theirs much of a difference between politician's, no matter what they represent.

[Hydraboss]

Pint VS Politician

Pint - looks good when you first get it

Politician - looks good when you first get it

Draw

Pint - you know what you're getting

Politician - you have no idea what you're actually getting

1 point pint

Pint - good beer leaves a good taste in your mouth

Politician - all politicians leave a bad taste in your mouth

1 point pint

Pint - if you don't like your pint, order a different one in 5 minutes

Politician - if you don't like your politician, wait 4 years for another one

1 point pint

Pint - too many pints and you wake up with a headache (3 Advil and it's gone)

Politician - one politician and you instantly get a headache (3 Advil and he's still there)

1 point pint

Pint - $5 and you get value for your money

Politician - $5 for your membership, and you get nothing to show for your money

1 point pint

Final score:

Pint - 5 points

Politician - 0 points

You decide what to do with your $5.

Cheers.

[Black Dog]

I wasn't even considering Morton until Harper's statement on the Quebec nation. Now I have to consider if we need someone like Morton to protect our interests from the Quebecois incursion that is typical from recent Federal Tory governments.

"Quebecois incursion"? So would a similar and equaly meaningless statement about Alberta placate you?

I want the deal Quebec gets, and I see Morton as more likely to get it. Oberg and Dinning would be pushovers Federally.

Frankly I think most of Morton's ideas on this (a provincial police force, pension plan) are uneccesary and nutty. And his social views are downright frightening and worse, dangerous for a province so heavily dependent on attracting young workers.

One more thing: don't get me wrong: I want Alberta to get a fair shake from the ROC as much as anyone. It's the fact that Albertans tolerate crap from their own provincial government that they would never take from Ottawa that drives me up the frigging wall.

Hydraboss:

[kimmy]

Pint - too many pints and you wake up with a headache (3 Advil and it's gone)

Politician - one politician and you instantly get a headache (3 Advil and he's still there)

1 point pint

If you wake up with a politician, will 3 Advil make it go away?

Frankly I think most of Morton's ideas on this (a provincial police force, pension plan) are uneccesary and nutty. And his social views are downright frightening and worse, dangerous for a province so heavily dependent on attracting young workers.

One more thing: don't get me wrong: I want Alberta to get a fair shake from the ROC as much as anyone. It's the fact that Albertans tolerate crap from their own provincial government that they would never take from Ottawa that drives me up the frigging wall.

Complete agreement on all of this.

I'm considering going and spending $5 just to vote for somebody other than Morton.

-k

[geoffrey]

I wasn't even considering Morton until Harper's statement on the Quebec nation. Now I have to consider if we need someone like Morton to protect our interests from the Quebecois incursion that is typical from recent Federal Tory governments.

"Quebecois incursion"? So would a similar and equaly meaningless statement about Alberta placate you?

No, no statement about Quebec would be nice. Harper is just selling out to them with every statement, a Quebec focused Federal government is not in our best interest.

Frankly I think most of Morton's ideas on this (a provincial police force, pension plan) are uneccesary and nutty. And his social views are downright frightening and worse, dangerous for a province so heavily dependent on attracting young workers.

Everyone knows he can't actually do anything on the social side, I could care less what he says because it's all rather meaningless.

[Black Dog]

Everyone knows he can't actually do anything on the social side, I could care less what he says because it's all rather meaningless.

Be that as it may, I still don't like it as it distracts from and consumes valuable energy that could be expended addressing issues that actually matter. At best, it's pandering and at worst it gives what are, IMV, undesierable ideas a toehold in the political discourse.

[Canadian Blue]

Frankly I think most of Morton's ideas on this (a provincial police force, pension plan) are uneccesary and nutty. And his social views are downright frightening and worse, dangerous for a province so heavily dependent on attracting young workers.

A provincial police force could be a reality in Alberta. If you haven't noticed the Sheriff's are started to get into a larger scope of Law Enforcement. Driving down Highway 2 or Highway 16 you'll notice a few Sheriff's doing patrol. In some ways they are acting at the same capacity as state troopers. I could see the government possibly getting the Sheriff's to do the provincial policing role in Alberta.

[Canadian Blue]

Apparently the two front runners are Jim Dinning and Ted Morton. So it's going to be interesting to see how the race goes. My parents are voting tommorrow, and have said that they are going to support Ted Morton.

Anybody else wanna comment before the leadership results.

[geoffrey]

Apparently the two front runners are Jim Dinning and Ted Morton. So it's going to be interesting to see how the race goes. My parents are voting tommorrow, and have said that they are going to support Ted Morton.

Anybody else wanna comment before the leadership results.

I don't even know what to say.

I'm sitting here with a rye and ginger at 2:32am the morning of the vote and I'm undecided.

I bought my membership from Oberg. I think Oberg has some great ideas. Harper's recent Quebec love fest is making me second guess that though. Do I throw my support behind Morton as the guy that will protect my interests from Quebec? Or do I trust Harper or whoever is elected next to protect me from Quebec.

Oberg won't do it. Nor will Dinning.

It's tough. I'll let you know before the results come in that evening my thoughts on that matter once I've contemplated it further.

One thing I know, it will go to a second ballot, Dinning will likely win the first. If Morton wins the first, he will win the race. If Dinning wins the first, it may turn into an anyone but Dinning situation and we'll see Oberg or Morton.

My vote on the two ballots may be completely different.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

If the Tories elect anybody other than Mark Norris they are cutting their own throats because Norris is the only one of the leadership hopefuls that can be equated with change.

I think the first ballot will yield a split of about 35% Dinning, 25 % Oberg and 20% Morton. Just a guess but I would venture to say that in a second ballot things will look a lot different. My guess is that there will be three dropping off the ballot after the second vote. I would venture to say that this will go a lot further than people think.

In the end I see Dinning as the winner of the election.

[August1991]

Trouble is after more than 30 years in power, the Tories are entrenched at every level-business, political and social. In the past, the PCs have demonstrated an almost Soviet zeal for party membership (there was a time when advancement within the beuracracy was restricted-unofficially of course-to party members) which makes breaking through a difficult task for any challenger.

That's terrifying but it also means they can throw it all away very quickly if they pick the wrong leader. Change, when it comes, is swift.

I've said it before WRT to the U.S., but I'll say it again here. I think this is a naive view of contemporary politics. Intelligent policy just doesn't win elections in this day and age. It's about who can look best on TV, say the right platitudes and hit the right emotional notes. Policy? Pffft.

That's true when people take little interest in politics. In my little experience of Alberta, I found that most Albertans paid far more attention to sports teams or truck models than they ever did to party policies.

----

This guy Ted Morton seems to have been produced in a Mattel factory. Any chance he"ll win?

[geoffrey]

I'm on my way right now, walking out the door to cast my ballot.

I still haven't decided. I'm slightly leaning more towards Morton. I know his socon values will never be pushed through or allowed, so I'm judging him completely on his defense of Alberta here.

I wish the Liberal election was first, then I could see if a carbon taxer was coming in. If so, I'd vote for Morton in a second.

Maybe I'll have a pain of ideological conscience though on the way and vote Oberg.

Either way, this vote isn't going to count for much, it will go to a second ballot.

[geoffrey]

Voted Oberg. I knew there was going to be a second ballot, might as well help Oberg get onto it, we'll see if Morton or him get my first choice on the second ballot.

It was an interesting difference though in the security. There were way more checks and verifications of my identity and eligibility there than at an Electons Canada polling station, yet shorter lines. Hmmm...

[jdobbin]

Voted Oberg. I knew there was going to be a second ballot, might as well help Oberg get onto it, we'll see if Morton or him get my first choice on the second ballot.

It was an interesting difference though in the security. There were way more checks and verifications of my identity and eligibility there than at an Electons Canada polling station, yet shorter lines. Hmmm...

Is this the doctor guy? How does he fit in the spectrum of candidates?

[geoffrey]

Voted Oberg. I knew there was going to be a second ballot, might as well help Oberg get onto it, we'll see if Morton or him get my first choice on the second ballot.

It was an interesting difference though in the security. There were way more checks and verifications of my identity and eligibility there than at an Electons Canada polling station, yet shorter lines. Hmmm...

Is this the doctor guy? How does he fit in the spectrum of candidates?

Hmm... socially, tame, unlikely to do anything.

Economically, a little more interventionist... big investor in health and education, but allowing more private sector involvement in both. Strong support of the Alberta voucher program for private schools.

Supports leaving property taxes to municiple use.

Surplus revenue into paying down our infrastructure debt (which is massive... another reason why Canadians are idiots when it comes to their irrational debt fear... it's great Alberta has no debt, but we also are years behind in infrastructure because of it. The main highway to the oilsands is undivided two lanes... massive trucks on it, it's a death-trap, so many die on it).

An Oberg Government will reduce the Alberta single rate tax from 10.0% to 9.5% over three years in conjunction with building up the fair value assets of the Alberta Heritage Savings Trust Fund. Each $10 billion increase in the fair value assets of the AHSTF will result in a 1% reduction in the Alberta single rate tax. As the market assets of the AHSTF grow, the Alberta single rate tax will continue to be reduced, with the ultimate objective being the elimination of personal income taxes for Albertans.

He's also for elimination of health care premiums.

And here's something the rest of Canada just doesn't get, and is why Canada has a weakening economy and Alberta doesn't:

Furthermore, an Oberg Government will reduce the 3% small business tax rate by 1% over the next two years, with a rate reduction of 0.5% per year. Small business is the engine for economic growth and job creation in Alberta as recognized recently by the government’s decision to raise the level of income eligible for the 3% rate to $500,000.

A huge boost to small-business. Small-business is how we are going to compete with the rest of the world, and 2% small business tax, f'in brilliant. Alberta is a great place to be entrepreneurial, and it shows in our wealth. Much of the oil industry, outside the main players, are very small service companies, and it makes us more adaptable to the market than most other large capital industries in Canada.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Oberg.......the guy wants to eliminate health care premiums and privatize health care. Good luck on the day we finally get a general election. Lets see, wasn't it the PC party who after winning an election in the spring that sat for a total of 39 days in the Alberta Legislature that entire year?

The PC party is a dinosaur and facing extinction, and they are not bright enough to see it coming. Without some massive change the public will begin to reject them in the next election and reduce them slowly but surely in their aging numbers. The old party is on the way out the door. I give them at best two mandates before they wither and die.

[jdobbin]

Hmm... socially, tame, unlikely to do anything.

Economically, a little more interventionist... big investor in health and education, but allowing more private sector involvement in both. Strong support of the Alberta voucher program for private schools.

Supports leaving property taxes to municiple use.

Surplus revenue into paying down our infrastructure debt (which is massive... another reason why Canadians are idiots when it comes to their irrational debt fear... it's great Alberta has no debt, but we also are years behind in infrastructure because of it. The main highway to the oilsands is undivided two lanes... massive trucks on it, it's a death-trap, so many die on it).

An Oberg Government will reduce the Alberta single rate tax from 10.0% to 9.5% over three years in conjunction with building up the fair value assets of the Alberta Heritage Savings Trust Fund. Each $10 billion increase in the fair value assets of the AHSTF will result in a 1% reduction in the Alberta single rate tax. As the market assets of the AHSTF grow, the Alberta single rate tax will continue to be reduced, with the ultimate objective being the elimination of personal income taxes for Albertans.

He's also for elimination of health care premiums.

And here's something the rest of Canada just doesn't get, and is why Canada has a weakening economy and Alberta doesn't:

Furthermore, an Oberg Government will reduce the 3% small business tax rate by 1% over the next two years, with a rate reduction of 0.5% per year. Small business is the engine for economic growth and job creation in Alberta as recognized recently by the government’s decision to raise the level of income eligible for the 3% rate to $500,000.

A huge boost to small-business. Small-business is how we are going to compete with the rest of the world, and 2% small business tax, f'in brilliant. Alberta is a great place to be entrepreneurial, and it shows in our wealth. Much of the oil industry, outside the main players, are very small service companies, and it makes us more adaptable to the market than most other large capital industries in Canada.

I am dubious about the voucher program. I think that it leads to grade inflation when schools are desperate to attract parents to send their students to their schools.

It always surprises me to hear Alberta has health care premiums. Good riddance, I say.

I agree on the infrastructure program. I personally think that the regional development programs of the federal government should be scrapped in favour of a national highway system.

If Alberta has the power to reduce its corporate and income taxes, by all means they should do it. It is smarter and less wasteful than issuing refund checks.

As Klein has said (and what he failed to do), Alberta is going to have to manage its growth. Part of that will be to make room for a lot more people and companies to locate to the province. It should also mean reaching out to the rest of Canada and the world with key investments. I think Alberta has to make the next big step as the United Arab Emirates and other oil based economies have done: Invest in industries beyond oil. Think of the future.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

That is not likely under a PC government. Two reasons for that, the big corporations own the place asnd don't want anybody messing around with their political capital and secondly in Alberta when we buy a politician he stays bought.

We do need change, but the change that we require is not what we can get from the Tories. Keep them in power and we can be assured there will be no rocking of the boat.

[geoffrey]

Looks like that Oberg vote was wasted... he's going to finish 4th sparing a massive surge in late counts.

Only the top 3 move on to the next ballot.

My choices are going to be Morton (1) and Stellmach (2) next week. You get to pick two ranked candidates.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

Of the remaining choices Morton more closely represents my position, withe the exception of privatising healthcare.

[Jerry J. Fortin]

I just found out that all three top candidates support the Pembina Institute's call for a public inquiry into royalty rates!! Now I am a happy camper, maybe there is hope after all for the citizens of my province. We have already lost about 50 billion with my math and perhaps a lot more, but maybe we will see some action.

If we get that crap straightened out, then fix the Heritage Trust Fund we will actually be doing something for our children. That reformation seems to have a little steam in the three top guys too. Just think about it for a second, if we return to properly funding that bank account and reform it into what the Socreds created it for we will have the Alberta Permanent Fund. A fund which pays every man women and child of this province a dividend every year!

[geoffrey]

If we get that crap straightened out, then fix the Heritage Trust Fund we will actually be doing something for our children. That reformation seems to have a little steam in the three top guys too. Just think about it for a second, if we return to properly funding that bank account and reform it into what the Socreds created it for we will have the Alberta Permanent Fund. A fund which pays every man women and child of this province a dividend every year!

Or pays the bills once oil is less of an issue, likely not for hundreds of years.

Alberta may be the first region of the world able to 'retire'.