Ricki Bobbi Posted September 6, 2006 Report Posted September 6, 2006 Wow, what a crushing indictment. How would you like thr government to gauge the public's opinion while formulating an environmental policy? "We don't make decisions in our governments based on polls," -Stephen Harper, August 2006 Link "This party will not take its position based on public opinion polls. We will not take a stand based on focus groups. We will not take a stand based on phone-in shows or householder surveys or any other vagaries of public opinion" -Stephen Harper, January 2003 Link No wonder they call him "Stephen Harpercrite". Quote Dion is a verbose, mild-mannered academic with a shaky grasp of English who seems unfit to chair a university department, much less lead a country. Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
Canuck E Stan Posted September 6, 2006 Report Posted September 6, 2006 How quickly we forget. Paul Martin and the Lobbyists Earnscliffe Strategy Group – This Ottawa company has long had ties to Paul Martin.The company has two sides: government relations, and research and communications. There were times when the government relations side was lobbying departments that the communications side was advising. The company's partners have said they maintain a "Chinese wall" between the two sides of the business, so the advisers on the communications side are not influenced by the lobbying side, and vice versa. The company has recently sold its research and polling division to Burson-Marsteller, an international public relations company. ....and then there was the "advisors" from Earnscliffe. Quote "Any man under 30 who is not a liberal has no heart, and any man over 30 who is not a conservative has no brains." — Winston Churchill
gc1765 Posted September 6, 2006 Report Posted September 6, 2006 "We don't make decisions in our governments based on polls," -Stephen Harper, August 2006 Link "This party will not take its position based on public opinion polls. We will not take a stand based on focus groups. We will not take a stand based on phone-in shows or householder surveys or any other vagaries of public opinion" -Stephen Harper, January 2003 Link No wonder they call him "Stephen Harpercrite". Out of curiosity, who would you like to see him replaced with? Borg As prime minister....out of those in contention, I would say Gerard Kennedy. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
gc1765 Posted September 6, 2006 Report Posted September 6, 2006 Wow, what a crushing indictment. If you don't have anything intelligent to say... How would you like thr government to gauge the public's opinion while formulating an environmental policy? I don't have a problem with how they gauge public opinion, but what I do find hilarious is the hypocrisy of Harper trying to claim that he doesn't govern based on polls when he clearly does. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
Borg Posted September 6, 2006 Report Posted September 6, 2006 "We don't make decisions in our governments based on polls," -Stephen Harper, August 2006 Link "This party will not take its position based on public opinion polls. We will not take a stand based on focus groups. We will not take a stand based on phone-in shows or householder surveys or any other vagaries of public opinion" -Stephen Harper, January 2003 Link No wonder they call him "Stephen Harpercrite". Out of curiosity, who would you like to see him replaced with? Borg As prime minister....out of those in contention, I would say Gerard Kennedy. Then we ar e polls apart in our politics. Pun intended. Borg Quote
gerryhatrick Posted September 6, 2006 Author Report Posted September 6, 2006 You're clearly in the minority of world and science opinion on global warming. I suppose you think the depletion of the ozone layer is a natural phenomenon as well. A tiny minority made up of oil company shills and the very naive. Are you saying there haven't been Ice Ages and Interglacial Periods in the past? Gah. Wow! You're a genious! You should get on the phone to the American Association for the Advancement of Science RIGHT NOW! Your observation could break this whole thing open!! Quote Conservative Party of Canada taking image advice from US Republican pollster: http://allpoliticsnow.com
gerryhatrick Posted September 6, 2006 Author Report Posted September 6, 2006 Where was that accusation made? The government paid for Conservative Party of Canada polling? I would have to see some actual support for that. Normally they hire pollsters on their own dime, and don't do party polling with tax money. The news story said that the "government" paid for it. That usually means with government money...our money. If it were not the case, do you not think Hapers minions would be screaming about it? ....a leaked report indicates his government has been paying for research to see what Canadians think.... http://www.canada.com/topics/news/national...421&k=64810 Quote Conservative Party of Canada taking image advice from US Republican pollster: http://allpoliticsnow.com
Ricki Bobbi Posted September 6, 2006 Report Posted September 6, 2006 How is polling on Government of Canada environmental policy related to the Conservative party of Canada. That's the point you *still* haven't made Gerry.... Quote Dion is a verbose, mild-mannered academic with a shaky grasp of English who seems unfit to chair a university department, much less lead a country. Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
gerryhatrick Posted September 6, 2006 Author Report Posted September 6, 2006 How is polling on Government of Canada environmental policy related to the Conservative party of Canada. That's the point you *still* haven't made Gerry.... Apparently you haven't read the story. After you've read it, if you wish to rephrase your question so it makes sense I'll be happy to answer. Quote Conservative Party of Canada taking image advice from US Republican pollster: http://allpoliticsnow.com
August1991 Posted September 6, 2006 Report Posted September 6, 2006 "We don't make decisions in our governments based on polls," -Stephen Harper, August 2006 Link "This party will not take its position based on public opinion polls. We will not take a stand based on focus groups. We will not take a stand based on phone-in shows or householder surveys or any other vagaries of public opinion" -Stephen Harper, January 2003 Link No wonder they call him "Stephen Harpercrite". We don't know what the government's environmental policy is going to be other than that it won't be based on supporting Kyoto. Since polls indicate that a majority of Canadians want the government to follow Kyoto, I think Harper's statements above are certainly accurate when it comes to this issue. If you want to criticize Harper, go ahead. But at least make sure your criticsm is sensible. OTOH, it makes perfect sense for the government to obtain information about how Canadians feel about the environment or any other issue - ministers do it everyday when they read the newspaper, their mail or look at websites such as this one. The Strategic Counsel study seems to have been done with that in mind. They spoke to several urban groups across Canada. Quote
gc1765 Posted September 6, 2006 Report Posted September 6, 2006 "We don't make decisions in our governments based on polls," -Stephen Harper, August 2006 Link "This party will not take its position based on public opinion polls. We will not take a stand based on focus groups. We will not take a stand based on phone-in shows or householder surveys or any other vagaries of public opinion" -Stephen Harper, January 2003 Link No wonder they call him "Stephen Harpercrite". We don't know what the government's environmental policy is going to be other than that it won't be based on supporting Kyoto. Since polls indicate that a majority of Canadians want the government to follow Kyoto, I think Harper's statements above are certainly accurate when it comes to this issue. If you want to criticize Harper, go ahead. But at least make sure your criticsm is sensible. We do know that the government's environmental policy will likely be influenced by polls (i.e. the one that is the topic of this thread), despite the fact that Harper has explicitly said that his government will not be influenced by polls. For that, I called him a hypocrite. Isn't that pretty much the definition of hypocrite, saying one thing ("we don't make decisions in our government based on polls") and then doing the opposite (basing their decisions on polls)? So I'd say that's a pretty fair and accurate criticism, wouldn't you? OTOH, it makes perfect sense for the government to obtain information about how Canadians feel about the environment or any other issue - ministers do it everyday when they read the newspaper, their mail or look at websites such as this one. The Strategic Counsel study seems to have been done with that in mind. They spoke to several urban groups across Canada. Sure, it makes sense (I never said it didn't). What doesn't make sense is claiming that Harper doesn't make decisions based on polls, and then making his decisions based on polls. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
southerncomfort Posted September 6, 2006 Report Posted September 6, 2006 Pollster urges Tories to go greener Mike De Souza, CanWest News Service Published: Friday, September 01, 2006 OTTAWA - A polling firm recruited by the federal government is advising Prime Minister Stephen Harper that he can use a major environmental policy announcement in the coming weeks as a ''wedge issue'' to sway voter opinion in the next election. snip Ryan Sparrow, a spokesperson for Environment Minister Rona Ambrose, refused to comment on the reasons for the study or its cost to taxpayers. snip http://www.canada.com/topics/news/politics...ca72&k=5185 [/ But again....who would have guessed that Conservatives hire pollsters to tell them how to behave! ON THE ENVIRONMENT OF ALL ISSUES!!!! I'm flabbergasted. Guess it doesn't take much to flabbergast you LOL but then, we know this stuff is okay if its liberals doing it don't we. Quote
Shakeyhands Posted September 6, 2006 Report Posted September 6, 2006 I'll tell you what... Mr Obvious Point needs to make a visit to some of you. Liberals base policy on what people want= bad. Conservatives base policy on what people want= good. Simple enough? And thanks for reminding us all again about the Sponsership Scandal, just like the American pollster told you to.... hey wait a second.... Quote "They muddy the water, to make it seem deep." - Friedrich Nietzsche
B. Max Posted September 7, 2006 Report Posted September 7, 2006 There is not the slightest bit of proof for man made global warming. Some people will never change their mind in the face of insurmountable evidence, but if you're tempted google "proof of global warming". The facts are the facts. http://www.lesstaxonfuel.co.uk/warming.htm You facts lost credibility when they tried to dispute CO2 as a non-pollutant (even the U.S. Clean Air act defines it so, or do we have different air - link). Strange how MOST climatologist will disagree with your so-called facts. You're clearly in the minority of world and science opinion on global warming. I suppose you think the depletion of the ozone layer is a natural phenomenon as well. C02 is not a pollutant, in fact it is essential for life to exist. Just because the EPA says so does not make it so. That would be the same EPA that lost its credibility in the past misrepresenting studies. Misrepresentations that a judge had to correct after they were taken to court, and now calling CO2 a pollutant. It's absurd in the extreme. Quote
jbg Posted September 7, 2006 Report Posted September 7, 2006 Are you saying there haven't been Ice Ages and Interglacial Periods in the past? Gah. Wow! You're a genious! You should get on the phone to the American Association for the Advancement of Science RIGHT NOW! Your observation could break this whole thing open!! My point is obvious. There have been other warming and cooling periods, some quite sudden. There's nothing new under the sun. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
August1991 Posted September 7, 2006 Report Posted September 7, 2006 We do know that the government's environmental policy will likely be influenced by polls (i.e. the one that is the topic of this thread), despite the fact that Harper has explicitly said that his government will not be influenced by polls. For that, I called him a hypocrite. Isn't that pretty much the definition of hypocrite, saying one thing ("we don't make decisions in our government based on polls") and then doing the opposite (basing their decisions on polls)? So I'd say that's a pretty fair and accurate criticism, wouldn't you?gc, are you so literal-minded in real life? Are you, like, a schoolteacher?When Harper said his government wouldn't decide policy by polls, do you take this to mean that Harper would never conduct a poll? Has it occurred to you that Harper meant that he would provide leadership based on certain principles? In any case, it seems odd that you accuse Harper of hypocritically using a political poll for an issue where he is decidedly not following opinion polls. If you want to accuse Harper of hypocrisy, at least pick an example where the facts show his hypocrisy. And is this your best example of Harper's hypocrisy? He said his government wouldn't be guided by polls and then the Environment minister read the results of urban focus groups. Wow! Such diabolical hypocrisy! I suggest you find a better example - something sexier. I also suggest you play the ball, not the man. If the Libs or NDP beat Harper, it won't be because they draw reference to his steely blue eyes, helmut hair or moral hypocrisy. It'll be because his policies and ideas are wrong, and what they suggest is better. Quote
Ricki Bobbi Posted September 7, 2006 Report Posted September 7, 2006 gc, are you so literal-minded in real life? Are you, like, a schoolteacher? typical of the Harper-haters out there. He has dug up a couple minor little quotes and hammers away at the PM like he is the devil based on those minor quotes. Is Harper perfect? No. Is he doing a pretty good job so far? Yes. But people like gc, will never give an inch. Not to worry though. You know he won't ever give Harper credit for anything so why bother? Take a look at this thread. gc has repeated the same thing over and over and over and over again. We get it gc you hate Harper, but you can't be arsed to add anything new to the discussion. Good work sir. Quote Dion is a verbose, mild-mannered academic with a shaky grasp of English who seems unfit to chair a university department, much less lead a country. Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
jbg Posted September 7, 2006 Report Posted September 7, 2006 Take a look at this thread. gc has repeated the same thing over and over and over and over again. We get it gc you hate Harper, but you can't be arsed to add anything new to the discussion. Good work sir. Harper-haters tend to be perseverative. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
gc1765 Posted September 7, 2006 Report Posted September 7, 2006 gc, are you so literal-minded in real life? Are you, like, a schoolteacher?When Harper said his government wouldn't decide policy by polls, do you take this to mean that Harper would never conduct a poll? Yes, when Harper said We don't make decisions in our government based on polls I took that to mean that Harper would not make his decisions based on polls, ever. To suggest that he meant he is only making his decisions on principle some of the time, is like saying "this government does not lie" and then lie some of the time and not lie some of the time (I'm not saying Harper is lying here, I'm just using it as an analogy). The fact that he is polling people and listening to the results suggests that he plans on using that information to guide his policy. To pay for the polls and ingnore them would be a waste of money don't you think? Would you rather your tax dollars be wasted? In any case, it seems odd that you accuse Harper of hypocritically using a political poll for an issue where he is decidedly not following opinion polls. If you want to accuse Harper of hypocrisy, at least pick an example where the facts show his hypocrisy. Then why was he polling? To waste money? And is this your best example of Harper's hypocrisy? He said his government wouldn't be guided by polls and then the Environment minister read the results of urban focus groups. Wow! Such diabolical hypocrisy! I suggest you find a better example - something sexier. When did I say this is my best example of his hypocrisy? I brought up this example because it is relevant to this thread, not because it is the "best" example. typical of the Harper-haters out there. He has dug up a couple minor little quotes and hammers away at the PM like he is the devil based on those minor quotes When did I say I hate Harper? But people like gc, will never give an inch. Not to worry though. You know he won't ever give Harper credit for anything so why bother? I give credit to Harper for the things I agree with. I don't agree with much that he does because I happen to have different opinions (nothing wrong with that, right?), but I do agree with some things and I have mentioned that on this forum before. For example, I agree with the mission in afghanistan, transit tax credit etc... Take a look at this thread. gc has repeated the same thing over and over and over and over again. Some people just don't get it the first time. We get it gc you hate Harper, but you can't be arsed to add anything new to the discussion. Once again, where did I say I hate Harper? Please provide proof, otherwise don't make false comments. What exactly did you add with this post except to call me a Harper hater? Now, since you obviously have nothing to add, and I am adding nothing responding to your nothing, this will be my last off-topic post. If you want to talk about the issues I will be glad to respond. If all you want to do is call me a Harper-hater, consider yourself ignored. Quote Almost three thousand people died needlessly and tragically at the World Trade Center on September 11; ten thousand Africans die needlessly and tragically every single day-and have died every single day since September 11-of AIDS, TB, and malaria. We need to keep September 11 in perspective, especially because the ten thousand daily deaths are preventable. - Jeffrey Sachs (from his book "The End of Poverty")
Ricki Bobbi Posted September 7, 2006 Report Posted September 7, 2006 Harper-haters tend to be perseverative. as well as persistent. I don't really understand why somebody that single-minded wouldn't dish out his vitriol on babble? Quote Dion is a verbose, mild-mannered academic with a shaky grasp of English who seems unfit to chair a university department, much less lead a country. Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
jbg Posted September 7, 2006 Report Posted September 7, 2006 Harper-haters tend to be perseverative. as well as persistent. I don't really understand why somebody that single-minded wouldn't dish out his vitriol on babble? On sites like Babble, a single wrong step or wiggle causes a ban. That's why. Quote Free speech: "You can say what you want, but I don't have to lend you my megaphone." Always remember that when you are in the right you can afford to keep your temper, and when you are in the wrong you cannot afford to lose it. - J.J. Reynolds. Will the steps anyone is proposing to fight "climate change" reduce a single temperature, by a single degree, at a single location? The mantra of "world opinion" or the views of the "international community" betrays flabby and weak reasoning (link).
gerryhatrick Posted September 8, 2006 Author Report Posted September 8, 2006 Over $85,000 for a poll to find out if Canadians supported their five priorities just weeks after winning the election....paid for with taxpayer money. THAT is corruption. Quote Conservative Party of Canada taking image advice from US Republican pollster: http://allpoliticsnow.com
Ricki Bobbi Posted September 8, 2006 Report Posted September 8, 2006 You wouldn't have support for that would you Gerry? Over $85,000 for a poll to find out if Canadians supported their five priorities just weeks after winning the election....paid for with taxpayer money.THAT is corruption. Didn't think so. Quote Dion is a verbose, mild-mannered academic with a shaky grasp of English who seems unfit to chair a university department, much less lead a country. Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
gerryhatrick Posted September 8, 2006 Author Report Posted September 8, 2006 You wouldn't have support for that would you Gerry? Over $85,000 for a poll to find out if Canadians supported their five priorities just weeks after winning the election....paid for with taxpayer money. THAT is corruption. Support for what? A $85,000 poll paid for by taxpayers weeks after the last election to find out if Canadians support Harpers five priorities? No, I guess I wouldn't have support for that. Sorta obvious... Quote Conservative Party of Canada taking image advice from US Republican pollster: http://allpoliticsnow.com
Ricki Bobbi Posted September 8, 2006 Report Posted September 8, 2006 Support as in evidence to prove that this alleged poll actually was commissioned and paid for by the Government of Canada and really asked if people supported the Government's five priorities. Support for what? A $85,000 poll paid for by taxpayers weeks after the last election to find out if Canadians support Harpers five priorities? No, I guess I wouldn't have support for that. Sorta obvious... Didn't think so. Quote Dion is a verbose, mild-mannered academic with a shaky grasp of English who seems unfit to chair a university department, much less lead a country. Randall Denley, Ottawa Citizen
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