Privatize Canada Post?

[Big Blue Machine]

Just throwing an idea out there for you guys to debate. Should the federal government privatize Canada Post? Privatization was good for Petro-Canada, turning the once bloated and ineffecient crown corporation into a world renown money making company. Canada Post is one of the least effiecent crown corporations the federal government has, with workers being overpaid at their jobs and not being productive enough. Plus, privatizing Canada Post would make it non-partisan.

[Ricki Bobbi]

Great idea. It would require some sort of guarantee of mail delivery in remote areas, but it definitely could be done.

It would take a Conservative majority to do it though.

[Charles Anthony]

It would require some sort of guarantee of mail delivery in remote areas, but it definitely could be done.

Not for me. I would support privatization regardless of how it affects delivery in remote areas.

What do you mean by a guarantee? Do you object to remote areas paying higher prices for delivery?

[jdobbin]

Just throwing an idea out there for you guys to debate. Should the federal government privatize Canada Post? Privatization was good for Petro-Canada, turning the once bloated and ineffecient crown corporation into a world renown money making company. Canada Post is one of the least effiecent crown corporations the federal government has, with workers being overpaid at their jobs and not being productive enough. Plus, privatizing Canada Post would make it non-partisan.

Who is Canada Post partisan towards? Does it not deliver Conservative mail?

[jdobbin]

Great idea. It would require some sort of guarantee of mail delivery in remote areas, but it definitely could be done.

It would take a Conservative majority to do it though.

That might threaten a Conservative majority. Have you ever seen how people react when you threaten to cut their postal service? It ain't pretty.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/viewpoint/vp_drohan/20060622.html

[Big Blue Machine]

No one complained when Petro-Canada or Air Canada was privatized.

[Riverwind]

No one complained when Petro-Canada or Air Canada was privatized.

In both cases are in industries where private companies provided the same service. I can't think of any country that allows competition in basic mail delivery.

[jbg]

No one complained when Petro-Canada or Air Canada was privatized.

In both cases are in industries where private companies provided the same service. I can't think of any country that allows competition in basic mail delivery.

I tend to agree that, as much as I like privatization, this is one for a national government. Who'd want to deliver, at basic rates, a letter from Kapuskasing, Ontario to Churchill Falls, NL or Tuktuyutok, NWT?

[Charles Anthony]

I can't think of any country that allows competition in basic mail delivery.

To be fair, there is competition by courier services. There is also the competing force of email and fax. I understand that you mean "basic" delivery to include small envelopes and postcards and such.

Nevertheless, privatizing a corporation can still be done leave it as a monopoly.

[geoffrey]

I can't think of any country that allows competition in basic mail delivery.

To be fair, there is competition by courier services. There is also the competing force of email and fax. I understand that you mean "basic" delivery to include small envelopes and postcards and such.

Nevertheless, privatizing a corporation can still be done leave it as a monopoly.

True, I work for one. One with set profits and everything. Voids the whole concept of privatisation. Privatisation is support to benefit consumers because of competition, no competition and we are far worse off than how we started.

[Charles Anthony]

True, I work for one. One with set profits and everything.

What??? With set profits? How do they set profits?

That sounds more twisted than communism.

[Riverwind]

That sounds more twisted than communism.

Regulated monopolies are pretty twisted. In most cases the company submits its books to the regulator and asks that rates be set to ensure that they get a modest (<10%) return on investment. Unions love this setup because there is no limit on their wages and benefits since the company can always ask the regulator for a rate increase if they need money to buy labour peace.

[geoffrey]

That sounds more twisted than communism.

Regulated monopolies are pretty twisted. In most cases the company submits its books to the regulator and asks that rates be set to ensure that they get a modest (<10%) return on investment. Unions love this setup because there is no limit on their wages and benefits since the company can always ask the regulator for a rate increase if they need money to buy labour peace.

Exactly the way it works in reality. When the company starts losing money, they threaten to close and the government allows them to increase rates back to a acceptable profit level.

That's how it works.

[Charles Anthony]

Regulated monopolies are pretty twisted. In most cases the company submits its books to the regulator and asks that rates be set to ensure that they get a modest (<10%) return on investment. Unions love this setup because there is no limit on their wages and benefits since the company can always ask the regulator for a rate increase if they need money to buy labour peace.

Exactly the way it works in reality. When the company starts losing money, they threaten to close and the government allows them to increase rates back to a acceptable profit level.

That's how it works.

Holy crow! I had no idea.

This gives me more of a clear conscious identifying myself as an anarchist.

[fellowtraveller]

The privatization of Canada Post is a tougher question than at first glance, it is something that requires setting aside ideology...... Couriers are not allowed to deliver first class lettermail in the same way that Canada Post does, or they would be doing it already within major cities and between major cities. The reality is that the $.51 letter subsidizes tha vast amounts of $.06 admail delivered by the same system to your door.

The management there is sometimes between a rock and a hard place. For example, why do people in older neighbourhoods get delivery at their door, while residents of newer neighbourhoods must use community mailboxes? Making everybody use the boxes (hardly a major inconvenience, many millions already do it) would mean billions in savings for CP, it would transform their organization simply by eliminating letter carriers, who are very well paid indeed for the nature of the work done.

On the other hand, how do you get a letter or parcel to Arctic or rural villages throughout Canada? They are simply not served by couriers.......and operated reluctantly at a loss by Canada Post.

[Ricki Bobbi]

While a pretty fair suggestion it is completely impractical. There are still a large number, possibly a majority?, of Canadians who receive home delivery. No party would be willing to risk angering all those voters.

The management there is sometimes between a rock and a hard place. For example, why do people in older neighbourhoods get delivery at their door, while residents of newer neighbourhoods must use community mailboxes? Making everybody use the boxes (hardly a major inconvenience, many millions already do it) would mean billions in savings for CP, it would transform their organization simply by eliminating letter carriers, who are very well paid indeed for the nature of the work done.

[geoffrey]

While a pretty fair suggestion it is completely impractical. There are still a large number, possibly a majority?, of Canadians who receive home delivery. No party would be willing to risk angering all those voters.

Bah, that's ridiculous. Maybe it's time they grew up.

At the end of the day, the union (a very powerful one) won't let them modernize the system. Again, unions standing in the way of progress...

[jdobbin]

Bah, that's ridiculous. Maybe it's time they grew up.

At the end of the day, the union (a very powerful one) won't let them modernize the system. Again, unions standing in the way of progress...

I'd love for the Tories to try to end rural postal service by privatizing it. It would have their own supporters at their throats.

[geoffrey]

Bah, that's ridiculous. Maybe it's time they grew up.

At the end of the day, the union (a very powerful one) won't let them modernize the system. Again, unions standing in the way of progress...

I'd love for the Tories to try to end rural postal service by privatizing it. It would have their own supporters at their throats.

Oh, I wasn't talking about privatisation, I think it should be public. I was talking in support of Super Mailboxes and against home delivery.

[jdobbin]

Oh, I wasn't talking about privatisation, I think it should be public. I was talking in support of Super Mailboxes and against home delivery.

That isn't likely to affect their core support. But it wouldn't gain them votes either.

[ClearWest]

On the other hand, how do you get a letter or parcel to Arctic or rural villages throughout Canada? They are simply not served by couriers.......and operated reluctantly at a loss by Canada Post.

The same way that groceries and other consumer goods get up to the out-of-the-way places in Canada. The prices have to be higher. That's how there will be incentive for the service provider.

And of course, once it is opened up to competition, the service providers will come up with cheaper and more effective ways of delivering their services. Such innovation is almost non-existent in our current system. The Bureacrats in the gov't don't care that they're running at a loss because they're not using their own money. I think we should open the market up to competition.

But like jdobbin mentioned, the Conservatives would never put this forward. I really wish we had a party that had principles and stuck to them, and didn't worry about sucking up to their supporters. But I guess that's how the system works. And so, the system which would benefit everyone in the longterm, Capitalism, will likely never be fully instituted. Every major party, even the Conservatives, are willing to abandon capitalism to give handouts and to suck up to their buddies. They're all the same, just in different ways.

[Riverwind]

I really wish we had a party that had principles and stuck to them, and didn't worry about sucking up to their supporters. But I guess that's how the system works.

Its called democracy - an social construct that is at least as important as captitalism. Without it we would be in a constant state of civil war because people who want to change the system would have no other alternative.

[Wilber]

Home delivery was grandfathered for those addresses which had it some time in the 80's was it not? Since then delivery has been to neighborhood mail boxes and around here that is done by contract, not by Canada Post employees. Same goes for most post offices.

The ability of all citizens to send physical mail at the same rates has been looked upon like health care, a basic service that all citizens require. Maybe now that physical mail is becomming less important than it used to be when it comes to normal communication, attitudes will change but there are many who still depend on it.

[fellowtraveller]

Bah, that's ridiculous. Maybe it's time they grew up.

At the end of the day, the union (a very powerful one) won't let them modernize the system. Again, unions standing in the way of progress...

I'd love for the Tories to try to end rural postal service by privatizing it. It would have their own supporters at their throats.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Canada Post already has largely privatized the rural system, it happened in the 80s and 90s. Hundreds of small post offices were closed forever, hundreds more moved into stores and private homes in small places, and operated by contractors. There was a great hue and cry, but in the end Canada Post prevailed and it all blew over. Nobody in the cities cared since they were not affected. The changes were profound and most eveident n the Tory heartland on the Prairies. In rural areas adjacent to cities, home delivery has been replaced by community mailboxes. Most of these radical changes -unmarked by the 'city boys' posting here- took place during the Mulroney years. Many people are unaware of the impact that the loss of a post office has on a small town, and fewer care.

And yes, people receiving home delivery still get it, though any new areas after 1985 use the community mailboxes, which generally involve a hike of about one minute at worst. I think this initiative is exactly the type of thing that Canadians can get behind easily, since the motive is transparent, the savings are easily quantified/substantial and it introduces a level of equality for everybody- something Canadians profess to love. Some people get mail to the door, some have to walk a block, some have to rent a rural bozxa nd drive to get their bills. Really, is that fair?

[jdobbin]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Canada Post already has largely privatized the rural system, it happened in the 80s and 90s. Hundreds of small post offices were closed forever, hundreds more moved into stores and private homes in small places, and operated by contractors. There was a great hue and cry, but in the end Canada Post prevailed and it all blew over. Nobody in the cities cared since they were not affected. The changes were profound and most eveident n the Tory heartland on the Prairies. In rural areas adjacent to cities, home delivery has been replaced by community mailboxes. Most of these radical changes -unmarked by the 'city boys' posting here- took place during the Mulroney years. Many people are unaware of the impact that the loss of a post office has on a small town, and fewer care.

And yes, people receiving home delivery still get it, though any new areas after 1985 use the community mailboxes, which generally involve a hike of about one minute at worst. I think this initiative is exactly the type of thing that Canadians can get behind easily, since the motive is transparent, the savings are easily quantified/substantial and it introduces a level of equality for everybody- something Canadians profess to love. Some people get mail to the door, some have to walk a block, some have to rent a rural bozxa nd drive to get their bills. Really, is that fair?

Privatized doesn't just mean privatizing postal stations. It means that the company is not mandated to send mail to these private postal stations in the first place which they are required to do now.

Simply put, a privatized Canada Post could simply cross certain areas off the list entirely.